Raphael media =/

Hate to say it but Raphael got that ass whooped in this video, especially in the beginning. And he did the CE in the middle of Mitsu's 2KB combo and the first hit of it connected. I predict that "nubs" will spam these whenever possible.
 
I seen a video review of the whole game online and the review person said raphaels backdash felt faster than the rest of the characters he played with.
 
Azure said:
I seen a video review of the whole game online and the review person said raphaels backdash felt faster than the rest of the characters he played with.
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Signia commented on that earlier, and the trade off was that raph had less push-back from his blocked moves. What's better about this is he can step backwards after being hit, to possibly draw a whiff (like the top tiers in SC4). However, he lost his ability to push people into a corner (though the videos didnt' really show such a nerf) it won't really matter until he is a ring out threat /wall combo beater.
 
His 66A+G throw (VE A+G_B+G) seems to revive hp again. Maybe it never lost this property and people were just not doing it i don't know, but now i've seen it in the stream video.
 
KowtowRobinson said:
What'd I do wrong ='( lol aside from LOTS of things I did wrong, but hey
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Well it basically goes without saying for all characters in the game right now. Until we all get our hands on the training mode and figure out how to maximize things like damage etc there is no way we will see a properly played character for some time, even those characters who didn't seem to change very much.

When I watched your videos in particular, I thought you could have given your opponents more rope to hang themselves with and then whiff punishing with 3B/66B. Get a life lead for them trying to play Raph's game and then snowball that into them running into your BB's trying to catch up. People open themselves up in surprising ways after you touch with some safe stuff like AB, and with Raph's range it's just a matter of time they whiff something you can punish easily. That's just how I play him because he's not built to tangle face to face against the powerful offensive characters, I'd rather play in a way that takes away their entire game plan now that Raph has better tools to do so.
 
In the SCR aris v. ceirnian vid Raph's 3(B)~prepBB(BE) attack wrecked gauge on block (sent from yellow to red to guard burst in one go) which could be a guard burst lock if you have the meter and they are red/yellow almost empty.

Not sure how much of a threat that prep K and SE A is when you know they'll try to step like a mad-man at yellow/red guard meter.
 
Hudathan said:
Well it basically goes without saying for all characters in the game right now. Until we all get our hands on the training mode and figure out how to maximize things like damage etc there is no way we will see a properly played character for some time, even those characters who didn't seem to change very much.

When I watched your videos in particular, I thought you could have given your opponents more rope to hang themselves with and then whiff punishing with 3B/66B. Get a life lead for them trying to play Raph's game and then snowball that into them running into your BB's trying to catch up. People open themselves up in surprising ways after you touch with some safe stuff like AB, and with Raph's range it's just a matter of time they whiff something you can punish easily. That's just how I play him because he's not built to tangle face to face against the powerful offensive characters, I'd rather play in a way that takes away their entire game plan now that Raph has better tools to do so.
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Makes sense, I might be using him more this time around so I'll take that into account. Thanks for the critique.
 
Fendante said:
And Hudathan, I like your style with Raphael and I agree Raph needs to whiff punish and intercept attacks. You are right about using safe moves to open people up. For example, 66A+B was beast at fooling people into trying to attack after blocking the really safe move and then countering with 6BBB. And definitely do not get into offensive characters' faces like Talim, Taki, and Cassandra. Raph's range offers protection in these situations. But in some cases, Raph needs to stay up close when fighting Kilik or Seung Mina for example. These characters have slower, more punishable moves but can put a lot of pressure on Raph when he's far away. At the same time Raph needs to block and, punish consistently while in their faces to stay up close. Most importantly, be patient when playing Raph. Don't have to be too passive but do not randomly throw out fast and or safe moves. To me, Raph is the counter-type, fast, and elusive character, kind of in the middle between super defensive and super offensive.
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Kilik is funny, and by funny I mean I can only kick him until he somehow does something unsafe enough to punish on whiff. Don't gotta worry about that guy anymore.
 
I'm fine with his character design favoring strong verticals as long as he has enough horizontals to get by. You don't need a mid fast horizontal to compete, it's just one of those things we can't help but think about on paper. I don't mind not playing with the most well-rounded character because that's boring by design. Characters in fighting games should have different strengths and weaknesses so that we can appreciate those players who can maximize their own advantages while avoiding their weaknesses. Lazy design leads to lazy play which is never good for the competitive spirit fighting games stand for, and a character having more reliable options doesn't always translate into wins for the player.
 
If you're going to have noticeable weaknesses and strengths, then your strengths better shine.

The experience in SC4 (where raph's verticals felt outclassed by other chars in terms of frames and damage) leads me wondering about this mythical overpowered verticals to compensate for his shitty anti-step in SC4. Hopefully in SC5, if his verticals are strong (but not too strong) then his step kill shuold be weak (and not abuse-ably weak)
 
WuHT said:
If you're going to have noticeable weaknesses and strengths, then your strengths better shine.

The experience in SC4 (where raph's verticals felt outclassed by other chars in terms of frames and damage) leads me wondering about this mythical overpowered verticals to compensate for his shitty anti-step in SC4. Hopefully in SC5, if his verticals are strong (but not too strong) then his step kill shuold be weak (and not abuse-ably weak)
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Having extremely strong verticals and weaker horizontals sounds like his design intent. As a fencer, it would make sense, what with modern fencing matches taking place in a two-dimensional plane. In theory, if a Raphael player is playing him "correctly", stepping won't be a problem - the opponent will be too busy contending with his powerful verticals to even get up to step. Whiff punishing is another thing.

THIS should be the focus of his playstyle. Some terms of note given fighting game context:

Lunge and retreat - 236 and 214 - gives many options
Attaque au fer - guard breaks or guard crush, meant to give advantage and discourage
False attack - faints or "whiffing on purpose", attacks whose danger isn't in hitting but the reaction they provoke
Riposte - auto-GI's with guaranteed counterattacks or auto-GI's with forced mixup situations.

Obviously not all of the terms are going to transition well into a video game, especially one that so emphasizes using the 3D dimension. But I think that a Raphael's goal should be to try to force the opponent to play the match as if it were a fencing match - a match in which Raphael should absolutely destroy everyone else in if the opponent doesn't try to get out of it.

This was the problem with SC4 Raphael - his weaknesses were there, but his strengths weren't good enough to make up for them. His verticals just weren't scary enough to shut the opponent down and force them to play his game. Granted, it's kind of hard to force the opponent to not step without using good verticals. But I got faith.

EDIT: Essentially he should be all like this:
daffy-ani.gif
HO! HA HA! GUARD! TURN! PARRY! DODGE! SPIN! HA! THRUST!​
 
Nah you could only use 3k and 6k vs kilik and even then 4b+k beat those....

Between asura 4b+k and 1b. ...Raph has no safe options
 
It' takes a lot of 4K's to win a round, and Kilik doesn't need to rely on any of those unsafe moves to still play his game. I played a lot of Kilik as an alternate since SCII and the guy is as complicated as you want him to be.
 
WARUI_NE said:
4K loses to both 1B and 4B+K but hey....hes gone can we stop focusing on his lame ass?
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WARUI_NE said:
SC4 kilik vs raph was unwinnable

Im glad hes gone
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Gotta practice what you preach. If 3(B)~prepAB is NH, then we'll have a stronger raph i16 punish (and hopefully stronger entry into prep) as its hard to determine what exactly prepAB has over prepBB as it will clearly be slower.
 
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