JAGTHEGEMINI
[12] Conqueror
Those are exactly the reasons i can´t respect certain peolpe no matter how often they win. All that Top-tier abusing and "money-based" thinking, sometimes lying about results aso...
Just ain´t my stile.
Regarding FSAK
- Thread starter Ooofmatic
- Start date
- Status
Those are exactly the reasons i can´t respect certain peolpe no matter how often they win. All that Top-tier abusing and "money-based" thinking, sometimes lying about results aso...
Just ain´t my stile.
RedDjinn
Dat Hillbilly
Shit I could tell Malek was a cut above the rest anyways... That guys a beast and traveled all the way here from france just to grace us with his presence at one of our biggest tourneys... And how do we show him respect? We throw fights so our guy can be 1st.... Oh well Malek knows hes beast, just sad we disrespected him and our community like that.
I mean shit this shits been happening since sports were made, but for people to travel to another country and pay all that money just to come over here to fight our top players and then have the tourney stripped away by what I now see as bullshit, is just sad....
I mean shit this shits been happening since sports were made, but for people to travel to another country and pay all that money just to come over here to fight our top players and then have the tourney stripped away by what I now see as bullshit, is just sad....
Unknown Legend
[09] Warrior
The fact that this all went down is wrong but getting angry is not the answer. No matter what happens the politics of game should never be more important than playing the game. If people get caught up in the politics and quit, where does that leave us? Many have said they won't attend NEC over this but you don't realize what that does. NEC does not equal the few players who were involved in the scandal. NEC is about the community as a whole. Not showing up over politics causes lost of interest on a nation wide scale. Also decreases the chance of SC being at other majors. And I mean is that all the SC community? A bunch of players who jump ship over every little thing? I realize the foundation of the community is not that strong but surviving political drama makes us stronger. Other FG have things like this happen and they don't fall apart so why are we different?
Boycotting an event does affect individuals but it affects the community more. So no matter what justification you hurt the entire community. Wanting people to apologize or regret what they've done is not worth it. Many people in this world will wrong you and think nothing of it. It's human nature. That's whay there are laws against stealing and kidnapping etc, the world is smart enough to accept that people will do bad things and everyone will not always act with common decency. We shouldn't expect more in a FG community. So what do we do? Try and prevent it in the future instead of fueling more drama.
OOFMATIC
If you don't travel anymore and just play locally, you essentially quit "the community". A few individuals did things but you take it out on the whole community by no longer showing up, essentially saying if these few players cant be honorable than fuck the rest of you. How is that right? Many of us play with honor and are pleased when good players like yourself make an appearance. And yes I am saying that you singular makes an impact on how alive people percieve the game to be because you are a top player. You have influence and if decide your done travelling because of politics others will to. Also what changes if you wait till SC5 if the community as a whole is not honorable? The goal is not have history repeat itself. If people stop caring about the community as a whole and simply wait around for the next game it is bound to happen again in SC5. If people can stick around through all the bullshit it allows the community to grow and change rather than falling apart with any bit of political drama.
Boycotting an event does affect individuals but it affects the community more. So no matter what justification you hurt the entire community. Wanting people to apologize or regret what they've done is not worth it. Many people in this world will wrong you and think nothing of it. It's human nature. That's whay there are laws against stealing and kidnapping etc, the world is smart enough to accept that people will do bad things and everyone will not always act with common decency. We shouldn't expect more in a FG community. So what do we do? Try and prevent it in the future instead of fueling more drama.
OOFMATIC
If you don't travel anymore and just play locally, you essentially quit "the community". A few individuals did things but you take it out on the whole community by no longer showing up, essentially saying if these few players cant be honorable than fuck the rest of you. How is that right? Many of us play with honor and are pleased when good players like yourself make an appearance. And yes I am saying that you singular makes an impact on how alive people percieve the game to be because you are a top player. You have influence and if decide your done travelling because of politics others will to. Also what changes if you wait till SC5 if the community as a whole is not honorable? The goal is not have history repeat itself. If people stop caring about the community as a whole and simply wait around for the next game it is bound to happen again in SC5. If people can stick around through all the bullshit it allows the community to grow and change rather than falling apart with any bit of political drama.
Dreamkiller
Equal Sign Slash
Oof - My thing with you is that you're doing this for attention. For drama. You really did not have to post up ur heartfelt goodbye. Some ppl knew what happened at the tourney, and word always spreads so, everyone wouldve found out sooner than you think. Like seriously, almost a MONTH after the tourney and you still wanna keep going, like -_- wtf. Its bad enough we go through something all the time in the community, but its because of ppl like YOU that we obviously can never smooth sail from one major to the next without there being something to fight about.
Side Note - Ur pretty cool in person, but you just having the strong need to "speak ur mind" as u put it, just creates needless problems/drama in the community.
IdleMind
BANNED FOREVER
Your missing the fact that most people here don't even consider what happened as WRONG. Do you want to participate in a community with that kind of mindset?
I'm not trying to lean on the players for an apology. It's been stated they don't give a fuck. I'm saying you make your voice heard one way or another by participation/non-participation. Indifference tacitly supports the cheating players. That is what I'm saying to you. It doesn't hurt the community; it only hurts the places who don't give a fuck. Sounds good to me.
-Idle
WARUI_NE
Prettier than you
wow blaming oof
don't shoot the messenger, instead of blaming him blame the people who did it. You guys are fucking backwards
don't shoot the messenger, instead of blaming him blame the people who did it. You guys are fucking backwards
Ooofmatic
World Warrior
DmanXIIX, I've lost my motivation to travel not just because of FSAK, but because of people's mentalities and lack of respect towards the competition, and other players. I don't want to get into that now, we can talk about it in Javachat if you'd like. But I can't help but be disappointed in all of it, and because of that I can't force myself to be motivated and travel for this game. Anyways I've been traveling for SC multiple times a year for the past 5 years. I have a right to not want to travel anymore until SC5 if I don't feel like it. And seriously, I don't know why people think I'm "quitting" the game, just because I've lost my motivation to go to any more US tournaments. USA isn't the center of the world, I can still be an active SC4 player who supports the community and not travel to US tournaments. As long as I support the game I'm still supporting the community. Saying that I "quit" SC4 over this is false, and you are just twisting my words around by saying that.
Dreamkiller, I'm not making this thread for myself or my own personal gain. I'm doing it for the community. Shit like this needs to be discussed openly so that it raise awareness on the issues at hand, which will hopefully pave the way for a better future in SC5.
Dreamkiller, I'm not making this thread for myself or my own personal gain. I'm doing it for the community. Shit like this needs to be discussed openly so that it raise awareness on the issues at hand, which will hopefully pave the way for a better future in SC5.
malek
[10] Knight
I understand your feeling Oof, but this is really not important.
As soon as RTD lost to Whoaaaz, I knew about what's gonna happened.
S-U had nothing to win or to loose against Whoaaaz. So, he helps his friend.
Easy to understand.
S-U tried to explained himself to me (and Ramon) latter on at the restaurant, but I was not open minded at this point.
Whoaaz beat me. And from this statement, all is said. Scud laugh at me about this ah ah.
About braquet between winners, I was one of the poeple who said no.
At this point, when Idle asked me, I was convince to be the winner.
Why should have take the risk to loose my first place ?
Rules are Round Robin. No need to change it. But i dislike the way to brake tie.
I expect Idle to count every single result to brake tie, and to make results with
number of matches won - number of matches lost = score of the player.
That's why I expect to win even with Whoaaaz at only 2 losses.
After I learn the way to brake tie, I knew RTD was my last hope to be first.
And that's why I clap him everytime he won a round ah ah
Round Robin Tournament are WAY MORE DIFFICULT to organise than standrad event.
I knew everything would not be perfect before to come.
For a first, it was really a very good event. But, it can be improve.
All matches should be played.
Matches should be played at the same times.
Krayzie and I did too many matches on the forst day compare to SU for example.
Matches should be planned, and people should not just challenge themself randomly.
More TV, more judge, ...
Such an event is heaven for players, but Hell for staff.
There are no perfect solution to such a competition.
I feal a little unhappy for 2nd place, but still it was great.
And I like the ONE against ALL challenge ah ah
How ever Doc' is right on one important point.
From now on, my money is... my money.
Don't count on me this year.
Ps:
So many post so FAST.
That's a good way to spend time at job ah ah ah
Even more entertaining that match up chart !
As soon as RTD lost to Whoaaaz, I knew about what's gonna happened.
S-U had nothing to win or to loose against Whoaaaz. So, he helps his friend.
Easy to understand.
S-U tried to explained himself to me (and Ramon) latter on at the restaurant, but I was not open minded at this point.
Whoaaz beat me. And from this statement, all is said. Scud laugh at me about this ah ah.
About braquet between winners, I was one of the poeple who said no.
At this point, when Idle asked me, I was convince to be the winner.
Why should have take the risk to loose my first place ?
Rules are Round Robin. No need to change it. But i dislike the way to brake tie.
I expect Idle to count every single result to brake tie, and to make results with
number of matches won - number of matches lost = score of the player.
That's why I expect to win even with Whoaaaz at only 2 losses.
After I learn the way to brake tie, I knew RTD was my last hope to be first.
And that's why I clap him everytime he won a round ah ah
Round Robin Tournament are WAY MORE DIFFICULT to organise than standrad event.
I knew everything would not be perfect before to come.
For a first, it was really a very good event. But, it can be improve.
All matches should be played.
Matches should be played at the same times.
Krayzie and I did too many matches on the forst day compare to SU for example.
Matches should be planned, and people should not just challenge themself randomly.
More TV, more judge, ...
Such an event is heaven for players, but Hell for staff.
There are no perfect solution to such a competition.
I feal a little unhappy for 2nd place, but still it was great.
And I like the ONE against ALL challenge ah ah
How ever Doc' is right on one important point.
From now on, my money is... my money.
Don't count on me this year.
Ps:
So many post so FAST.
That's a good way to spend time at job ah ah ah
Even more entertaining that match up chart !
Unknown Legend
[09] Warrior
Idle
I'm not trying to be indifferent I'm trying look at the big picture. If we can get those who don't care to care that would be great maybe the community overall would have more integrity. But when I try to weigh which one holds greater importance inegrity or the number of players actually playing I'd pick numbers every time. I think at some point we have to limit our loses. So if more people play but some don't have integrity I deal with it because I love the game. I'd rather 60 players with 10-15 cheating over 20 players playing it honorably.
I still say try to find ways to limit cheating but it's like pirating music movies etc. It's gonna happen. You don't stop making music digital, likewise we shouldn't stop attending events.
And this is nothing personal to anyone. I have nothing but respect for most people here but what I'm saying is drama will cause people to out right quit, which hurts the community a lot.
oofmatic
if you have your reasons its cool but im just saying don't do it over a few people. But nothing but respect man, I guess I'll hope to play you in SC5
I'm not trying to be indifferent I'm trying look at the big picture. If we can get those who don't care to care that would be great maybe the community overall would have more integrity. But when I try to weigh which one holds greater importance inegrity or the number of players actually playing I'd pick numbers every time. I think at some point we have to limit our loses. So if more people play but some don't have integrity I deal with it because I love the game. I'd rather 60 players with 10-15 cheating over 20 players playing it honorably.
I still say try to find ways to limit cheating but it's like pirating music movies etc. It's gonna happen. You don't stop making music digital, likewise we shouldn't stop attending events.
And this is nothing personal to anyone. I have nothing but respect for most people here but what I'm saying is drama will cause people to out right quit, which hurts the community a lot.
oofmatic
if you have your reasons its cool but im just saying don't do it over a few people. But nothing but respect man, I guess I'll hope to play you in SC5
WARUI_NE
Prettier than you
what your saying is
Keep cheating secret because you don't want to step on anyones toes...
RedDjinn
Dat Hillbilly
LoL nobody quits what they love because some person cheated or rigged something... Usually they get pissed off and want to beat them to show them that they cant cheat or rig to win...
People been doing this shit since the beginning of time lol Americans have always fought dirty... I just would have liked to see the 1st place goto Malek because well he earned it... Every fight I saw him fight on the stream was just DONE...
We should be better than this, winning isnt as important as taking a loss then learning from it... If you win by cheating or rigging youve learned nothing but that your achievments and records are FALSE and deep down inside you know this and it will eventually get to you in the end...
One way or another your always caught and stripped of your false pride... Better to not cheat and to have real honor and knowledge of who is actually better than you at this game...
People been doing this shit since the beginning of time lol Americans have always fought dirty... I just would have liked to see the 1st place goto Malek because well he earned it... Every fight I saw him fight on the stream was just DONE...
We should be better than this, winning isnt as important as taking a loss then learning from it... If you win by cheating or rigging youve learned nothing but that your achievments and records are FALSE and deep down inside you know this and it will eventually get to you in the end...
One way or another your always caught and stripped of your false pride... Better to not cheat and to have real honor and knowledge of who is actually better than you at this game...
franman
[13] Hero
So ya... how do we limit cheating from happening or better yet prevent it from happening? (if preventing is even a possibility)
NEwayz I think to answer that question the tourney organizer should have trustworthy staffs watching over each station analyzing the situation and no one @ that station can start till the staff member signals them to do so.
NEwayz I think to answer that question the tourney organizer should have trustworthy staffs watching over each station analyzing the situation and no one @ that station can start till the staff member signals them to do so.
TsunamiBye
[14] Master
Getting 1st place is overrated lol. Putting "wtf that's awesome skill" in everyone's eyes is worth more. Heh, corruption. Money matches and/or FT5 imho do not satisfy my needs as a player. The long clashing of blades with hype is worth a lot more. That and hanging out as buddies after sparring long battles lol. That's my opinion I'm willing to stick by, if I could just get offline lol.
In tourneys. I may lose at trying to be the best, but I win with never giving up and taking losses like it's nothing. It's no big deal. Except some certain people do get salty.....oh well.
In tourneys. I may lose at trying to be the best, but I win with never giving up and taking losses like it's nothing. It's no big deal. Except some certain people do get salty.....oh well.
Hot Rod Dave
"Saucy saucy minx"
Whats the motivation for people like me to go to tourney's, and the "Top-Tier" elitists tell me to just look the other way while someone rigs a tourney? Thats fuckin bullshit. This aint no way to get new players to come to these things. A handfull of people are gonna take advantage of some nieve new tourney players, and thats supposed to be ok? Bullshit!! I understand that TO staff was short and hard to manage a tourney like that but, others knew about it and disrespected malek by rigging that shit. Thats shameful!!
I say we should be looking at prevention, rather than turning a blind eye to it. I get that this sort of thing WILL happen, But to let it slide and not punish the cheaters in some way shape or form is ridiculous. I think Idle did the a fantasic job running something like this, I dont think anyone couldve done better!! Good job idle
HRD
I say we should be looking at prevention, rather than turning a blind eye to it. I get that this sort of thing WILL happen, But to let it slide and not punish the cheaters in some way shape or form is ridiculous. I think Idle did the a fantasic job running something like this, I dont think anyone couldve done better!! Good job idle
HRD
Unknown Legend
[09] Warrior
WARUI_NE
What's your solution point and stare at those who cheated so they can feel ashamed? It's a waste of time if they clearly have a different perspective. I think working on preventing cheating is more beneficial then sitting here and trying to play the blame game. Everyone knows what happened. Rather than dwelling on how it's messed up how about try to prevent it from happening in the future.
I could care less about hurt feelings but I just feel like nothing will come of carrying on like this. It's not easy to change people but it's easy to change the rules and regulations.
What's your solution point and stare at those who cheated so they can feel ashamed? It's a waste of time if they clearly have a different perspective. I think working on preventing cheating is more beneficial then sitting here and trying to play the blame game. Everyone knows what happened. Rather than dwelling on how it's messed up how about try to prevent it from happening in the future.
I could care less about hurt feelings but I just feel like nothing will come of carrying on like this. It's not easy to change people but it's easy to change the rules and regulations.
MONEYMUFFINS
[13] Hero
You guys don't realize how often people lie, cheat, and steal. I want you to know that all people are untrustworthy. That includes me but I'm just open about it.
RTD
SC4 International Champ
this shit happens everywhere. it's part of life whether it's athletes taking steroids, top players splitting the pot, France making me take off my cowboy hat after i won the first tournament and started winning the world team tournament.
even so, i had too much respect for Malek to cheat him because he was the only one man enough to play me with my hat in France.
so i played it out against woahzz on the stream to determine which country would take home the gold and i lost by one hit.
for other people, it was a question of integrity vs patriotism.
it looks like most people chose the USA. i'm not sure how much a Canadian would understand that though.
Oof: everyone is dispensable. In fact, I'm going to pick up Vader, Apprentice and Yoda and play them at NEC in your absence. can you pm me your best parlor tricks and glitches?
even so, i had too much respect for Malek to cheat him because he was the only one man enough to play me with my hat in France.
so i played it out against woahzz on the stream to determine which country would take home the gold and i lost by one hit.
for other people, it was a question of integrity vs patriotism.
it looks like most people chose the USA. i'm not sure how much a Canadian would understand that though.
Oof: everyone is dispensable. In fact, I'm going to pick up Vader, Apprentice and Yoda and play them at NEC in your absence. can you pm me your best parlor tricks and glitches?
Malice
Super Moderator
Yoda costs $5.
Rigil
[09] Warrior
Yoda is unlocked by opening your wallet.
LP
Premium Member
Idle -
I think DMan and I are pretty much on the same page here. It isn't indifference so much as it's approaching things intelligently. As this topic has shown, everyone's going to have their opinions and side with whomever they're closest to and nothing constructive is coming of it. The only thing that could possibly come of this topic is this already small and relatively weak community turning into a bunch of even weaker schisms. With that said, players will only keep supporting the game if they have reason to. The weaker the community, the less reason some have to dedicate their time to it. With that in mind, though I think we all know things that some may deem less than fair take place all of the time, I think, just off of the magnitude of responses this topic has gotten, we should treat this as an isolated incident and work towards putting up preventive measures. If the Army's taught me ANYTHING, it's that stupid rules usually are created as things happen, no matter how rare or often.
I understand people values are different coming into this topic, but, that being said, if your friend came to you and asked you to help him out vs. some unknown or even a random associate, you're going to probably help that friend before the other person. It's the good ol' boy system and many of us have benefited from it at some point in time or another. I mean, even, look at the people who got to CONDUCT gauntlet runs on the first day; you can't tell, especially with me trying to do them, that friendships didn't have anything to do with that (or need I even mention the stream matches I kept requesting first day that somehow kept getting pushed to the bottom of the list on the first day and then, second day, after I beat SU and DK and I'm TRYING to finish my last matches, people are calling me for about 20-30 minutes telling me I have to do a match vs. Mick, regardless of how many times I told them I was trying to finish my matches? Nevermind, either, the fact that many players were already leaving at this time and I lost my station and another sync cable because of it). I'm not saying I feel terribly wronged, as it was still a great event in my eyes. But, at this point, perception is everything. There's a time to get angry but I myself don't believe this to be one of them.
But, even so, with all of this I'm just as 'disgusted' at the fact that people KNEW ABOUT THIS WHILE IT WAS GOING ON AND THEN WANT TO COME HERE AS IF THEY'RE SOME CHAMPION OF JUSTICE! But, you know what? I love everybody and I'm just going to hope there's some rationale behind that. Like I've said, we're not being complacent - we're approaching things intelligently. If people didn't stand idly by while this went on, we wouldn't be having this argument at point. There's a lot of blood on people's hands here and, as an outsider looking in, I just see more bullets flying and no talking going on.
Like I said earlier, a lot more people knowingly or unknowingly did the same thing as these two for whatever reason during the tournament. A lot of the stuff happened, though, simply because of the type of format that it was. As has been said countless times already, NOBODY HAS DONE ANYTHING QUITE LIKE THIS BEFORE! With such a grand event and us all being virgins to it, there are going to be problems resulting from it. It's best, at this point, to just learn from the mistakes made and come back stronger and better prepared for things like this. I don't believe it plagues us as a community as much as some others and I believe that we can nip all of this in the bud.
Sorry if my paragraphs didn't run well together here, but I had to run and do some stuff between typing.
I think DMan and I are pretty much on the same page here. It isn't indifference so much as it's approaching things intelligently. As this topic has shown, everyone's going to have their opinions and side with whomever they're closest to and nothing constructive is coming of it. The only thing that could possibly come of this topic is this already small and relatively weak community turning into a bunch of even weaker schisms. With that said, players will only keep supporting the game if they have reason to. The weaker the community, the less reason some have to dedicate their time to it. With that in mind, though I think we all know things that some may deem less than fair take place all of the time, I think, just off of the magnitude of responses this topic has gotten, we should treat this as an isolated incident and work towards putting up preventive measures. If the Army's taught me ANYTHING, it's that stupid rules usually are created as things happen, no matter how rare or often.
I understand people values are different coming into this topic, but, that being said, if your friend came to you and asked you to help him out vs. some unknown or even a random associate, you're going to probably help that friend before the other person. It's the good ol' boy system and many of us have benefited from it at some point in time or another. I mean, even, look at the people who got to CONDUCT gauntlet runs on the first day; you can't tell, especially with me trying to do them, that friendships didn't have anything to do with that (or need I even mention the stream matches I kept requesting first day that somehow kept getting pushed to the bottom of the list on the first day and then, second day, after I beat SU and DK and I'm TRYING to finish my last matches, people are calling me for about 20-30 minutes telling me I have to do a match vs. Mick, regardless of how many times I told them I was trying to finish my matches? Nevermind, either, the fact that many players were already leaving at this time and I lost my station and another sync cable because of it). I'm not saying I feel terribly wronged, as it was still a great event in my eyes. But, at this point, perception is everything. There's a time to get angry but I myself don't believe this to be one of them.
But, even so, with all of this I'm just as 'disgusted' at the fact that people KNEW ABOUT THIS WHILE IT WAS GOING ON AND THEN WANT TO COME HERE AS IF THEY'RE SOME CHAMPION OF JUSTICE! But, you know what? I love everybody and I'm just going to hope there's some rationale behind that. Like I've said, we're not being complacent - we're approaching things intelligently. If people didn't stand idly by while this went on, we wouldn't be having this argument at point. There's a lot of blood on people's hands here and, as an outsider looking in, I just see more bullets flying and no talking going on.
Like I said earlier, a lot more people knowingly or unknowingly did the same thing as these two for whatever reason during the tournament. A lot of the stuff happened, though, simply because of the type of format that it was. As has been said countless times already, NOBODY HAS DONE ANYTHING QUITE LIKE THIS BEFORE! With such a grand event and us all being virgins to it, there are going to be problems resulting from it. It's best, at this point, to just learn from the mistakes made and come back stronger and better prepared for things like this. I don't believe it plagues us as a community as much as some others and I believe that we can nip all of this in the bud.
Sorry if my paragraphs didn't run well together here, but I had to run and do some stuff between typing.
- Status