SC Controversial Topics and General Shitposting Thread

Rusted Blade

[13] Hero
I believe the proper term is ephebophilic, though people have a tendency to not differentiate between the two words.
You're right: I'm caught being pedantic about a point while simultaneously not being specific/accurate enough myself!

As for everything else, I doubt I’d have too much to contribute. Partially because I haven’t read over the situation in question and partially because I lack much experience with interpersonal relationships (specifically social interaction in general). So far it seems as though I am one of the younger users on 8wayrun (recently turned 21) and, despite being told repeatedly that I’m mature for my age, I can safely say I was extremely naive for the majority of my teenage years. From my experience, it seems like what was viewed as ‘maturity’ was actually just me being disinterested in social interactions with others of my age group and thus a lack of stereotypical teenage behavior.

I can say that I probably did show more maturity than a majority of my peers over the past few years, though that likely developed during my late teens as opposed to age fifteen.
Precisely. People see what they want to see when it comes to who they want to be with. That's just one of numerous reasons why we cannot afford an exception to the general standard because "Ahhh, she gets! She's a very bright 15-year-old." Personally, I would be horrified to feel that in my twenties (let alone later) I was no further developed than I was at 15. What a shit show life would be if that were actually true. I don't think Tres or Dante are really doing themselves as much credit as they probably should in that respect of their shared argument along those lines above--self-introspection twenty years after the fact is hardly very good evidence of anything, and I'd guess the both of them have evolved much more than they self-evaluate as to having done. Regardless, the legal (and responsible moral) standard cannot abide a "No, this underage girlfriend is totally hip and mature--she totally gets it, trust me!" exception.

The "She Said" includes grooming and deliberate emotional manipulation. The "He Said" does not. Intent is pertinent to a question of morality.
Well, first off, I'd disagree as to that: his own response actually seems to more or less acknowledge exactly how problematic his behaviour was and why. But even if that weren't the case, I don't see why we would give him the benefit of the doubt as to his motivations.

"Pedophilic" denotes prepubescence. This distinction is extremely relevant.
That's splitting the hair pretty thin when we are talking about a 15-year-old. A 15-year-old whose level of development at the time you have no first hand knowledge of. And it ultimately doesn't matter: she's clear that she was not prepared for what he tried to put on her. I'm not going to further protract the discussion by entering into the discussion of whether what happened between your brother and his ex is problematic enough, but I will point out that it's a completely different scenario (at least as you describe it) in that nobody left it feeling used or traumatized. That is clearly not the case with LuminAbyss and the girl he fixated upon, from both sides of the story.

All of that said, I feel like we are moving to opinions that are farther apart than where we started, merely by virtue of protracted debate about the particulars. Suffice it to say we are too far apart to have a meeting of the minds on the matter of this one man's conduct and whether/why it was appropriate for it to be lifted into the public view at this time (regardless of whether there are "worse actors" currently sharing the creep limelight). I think his behaviour was clearly reprehensible, that it is not much ameliorated by the fact that he never had an opportunity to physically abuse her, and given the particulars of how he approached her, I'm pretty dubious that the fact the abuse never got that far has anything to do with him: had she not had the presence of mind to run from that situation, I would be very worried about where it likely would have gone next. And without question, I am not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt as to any of that.

But at the same time, as powerfully as I disagree with you as to how much this case was cause for concern, the fact of that matter is that she already exercised her right to talk about these events publicly and both you and I (and everyone who has commented here on the matter here that I saw) at least seem to agree that she should not be stifled or condemned for doing so, once she has made that decision. That will just have to suffice as the nexus of our agreement in this instance, since I think perspectives have been expressed to their fullest and continued debate will probably only, if anything, push us farther apart. I would only add that my own perspective, based in my own professional background, inclines me towards a version of the precautionary principle that prioritizes the safety of minors over the privacy of adults who consciously took actions which opened their conduct to scrutiny.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
Personally, I would be horrified to feel that in my twenties (let alone later) I was no further developed than I was at 15. What a shit show life would be if that were actually true. I don't think Tres or Dante are really doing themselves as much credit as they probably should in that respect of their shared argument along those lines above--self-introspection twenty years after the fact is hardly very good evidence of anything.
I’m not sure if you’re taking the meaning here. It’s not that we stopped developing at 15, in that we’re 30+ years old with the cognitive abilities of a 15 year old, but that we were, at 15, well beyond our years, to the point where further developments weren’t really observable. Just life experience being added to the mix, able to be perceived and reflected upon with greater ability than that of your run-of-the-mill 15 year old.

That’s how I feel about myself, at any rate, and how I read the spirit of Tres’s stance, in that we also appear to be on the same page, that seems to have been the intended implication and effect.
 

Rusted Blade

[13] Hero
I’m not sure if you’re taking the meaning here. It’s not that we stopped developing at 15, in that we’re 30+ years old with the cognitive abilities of a 15 year old, but that we were, at 15, well beyond our years, to the point where further developments weren’t really observable. Just life experience being added to the mix, able to be perceived and reflected upon with greater ability than that of your run-of-the-mill 15 year old.

That’s how I feel about myself, at any rate, and how I read the spirit of Tres’s stance, in that we also appear to be on the same page, that seems to have been the intended implication and effect.
Well, without meaning to denigrate your self-reflection, your perception that you were wise beyond your years doesn't do anything to shift the needle for me on the quesion of whether we should have exceptions for the standard age of consent or whether adult/minor interactions should carry a presumptive assumption of an unacceptable exploitation of the minor's decreased capacity, as a legal, psychological, pragmatic, or moral matter.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
Well, without meaning to denigrate your self-reflection, your perception that you were wise beyond your years doesn't do anything to shift the needle for me on the quesion of whether we should have exceptions for the standard age of consent or whether adult/minor interactions should carry a presumptive assumption of an unacceptable exploitation of the minor's decreased capacity, as a legal, psychological, pragmatic, or moral matter.
Which is fine, that’s your choice and it’s not even our place or (my, at least) intention you try and get you to change your position, it was mostly a “for the sake of argument, there could be an exception to the rule”, as a possible explanation to how anyone might possibly perceive it as okay. For the matters at hand, I stand in agreement with your assessment. This one was not a case, nor any of these cases so far at EVO, for that matter, where an exception could be drawn for justification. Tres (and I supported the idea based on myself and my own experiences) was hinting at this premise, and I took it a bit further, but it was outside the realm of the specific cases that actually happened, none of which apply this reasoning.
 

Heniek

[13] Hero
Well, first off, I'd disagree as to that: his own response actually seems to more or less acknowledge exactly how problematic his behaviour was and why. But even if that weren't the case, I don't see why we would give him the benefit of the doubt as to his motivations.
Just a small caveat to this part from me. The fact that he says that does not necessarily means he feels that way or that he admits that his intentions were I'll intended when it happened. In this situation, considering how much backlash could happen he could just as likely just prefer to go this route just so it can end faster. Especially considering that any kind of attempt of defending or merely explaining his actions or way of thinking/feeling back in the day could lead to even more backlash. It doesn't need to be that way of course but that is a probability I am personally considering

Also sorry for only sticking to this one point but it's late, my phone is dying and probably I wouldnt be able to add much to what was already spoken. That said I am really enjoying this discussion (even tho the topic is what it is) personally mostly because of opposing views that allows me to widen my own personal perspective. I'm also glad how @TresDias was able to so well expand my simplified sentiment regarding this topic.
 

Crash X

[14] Master
LisaK would probably get a heartattack if she returned now. This has to be the first time ever the shitposting thread is used for actual serious discussions.
Then that means it must be time for us to elect a new ruler for the Shitposting Kingdom with the current...passing of our former queen.
 

Rusted Blade

[13] Hero
Which is fine, that’s your choice and it’s not even our place or (my, at least) intention you try and get you to change your position, it was mostly a “for the sake of argument, there could be an exception to the rule”, as a possible explanation to how anyone might possibly perceive it as okay. For the matters at hand, I stand in agreement with your assessment. This one was not a case, nor any of these cases so far at EVO, for that matter, where an exception could be drawn for justification. Tres (and I supported the idea based on myself and my own experiences) was hinting at this premise, and I took it a bit further, but it was outside the realm of the specific cases that actually happened, none of which apply this reasoning.
I know, but my concern is that such arguments tend to be the root of the defenses abusers themselves will always try to give for their actions and that any scenarios where the minor comes away unscathed are monumentally outweighed by an avalanche of abuse leading to life-log consequences for untold numbers of innocents. My perspective on the matter is substantially coloured by my own professional outlook, in that I am probably more often reminded of both the (generally underappreciated) prevalence of such abuse and the degree of the roll it extracts from the victims. I don't say that to bootstrap my argument: indeed, to a degree I am admitting to a certain kind of bias of my own in how I evaluate individual instances of inappropriate conduct--albeit one that I would argue is based in a pretty informed and nuanced understanding of the matter. In short: I've seen how bad it can get, I am more than occasional forced to confront the despiriting figures of how prevalent it remains, and I'm familiar (from both individual stories and the relevant research) with how completely it can alter the course of a young person's life, stealing their joy and potential.

It all inclines me to a rather skeptical view that we should treat the notion of exceptions as a meaningful part of the narrative on how to respond to accusations in general: aside from the fact that it is not the most accurate lens to apply as an empirical matter, I fear it feeds into a culture where there is some degree of equivocation that potential offenders latch on to. I'd just as soon the societal proscription was universal, and any relationships that were meant to be can wait until everyone is an adult. I can appreciate that the concept of a light switch being flipped at 18 that magically makes some one capable of appreciating the consequences of their actions and being now capable of handling the implications of a relationship feels unrealistic and arbitrary, but at the end of the day we are talking about a numbers game, and everyone needs to respect that system for it to work and minimize the potential for abuse. It just doesn't work to carve out exceptions, even as a theoretical matter: 9 out of 10 abusers are going to be convinced their "love" is the exception: we are talking about a deeply delusional, self-enabling, and pathological class of people here, after-all. Anyway, even the notion of a hypothetical non-damaging relationship in this area melts away by the time you move back to 15 years.

Also, remember that the problems with these relationships arise not just out of the issues innate to the lack of competency but also the fact that any adult engaged in such a relationship must keep it hidden at all costs: this creates a second level of psychological consequences for the minor and dangerous lines of thought for the adult if they have to scramble to control the situation. No good all around. Sometimes people truly cannot control their pathologies, but the argument that they are operating out of love if they peruse such a relationship falls apart pretty immediately under it's own weight: if they truly loved the minor, they would never subject them to a situation like that.

Just a small caveat to this part from me. The fact that he says that does not necessarily means he feels that way or that he admits that his intentions were I'll intended when it happened. In this situation, considering how much backlash could happen he could just as likely just prefer to go this route just so it can end faster. Especially considering that any kind of attempt of defending or merely explaining his actions or way of thinking/feeling back in the day could lead to even more backlash. It doesn't need to be that way of course but that is a probability I am personally considering.
True enough, but then if he is hemmed in there, it is by his own doing and once the basic facts of the scenario have been admitted to, we can't really afford to be doubting the potential victim's account of things for the sake of the perpetrator. At that point we have to go with taking those accusations at face value. Maybe a minor does not always have the clearest of perspectives on such matters, but then their ability to be confused, more easily harmed and to generally lack adult capacity to deal with the situation is exactly the reason the adult was meant to be staying away from them in the first place, so they can hardly cry foul at the juncture that those features of the pre-adult mind come back to bite them.
 

TresDias

[07] Duelist
I’m not sure if you’re taking the meaning here. It’s not that we stopped developing at 15, in that we’re 30+ years old with the cognitive abilities of a 15 year old, but that we were, at 15, well beyond our years, to the point where further developments weren’t really observable. Just life experience being added to the mix, able to be perceived and reflected upon with greater ability than that of your run-of-the-mill 15 year old.

That’s how I feel about myself, at any rate, and how I read the spirit of Tres’s stance, in that we also appear to be on the same page, that seems to have been the intended implication and effect.
Oh, were we not agreeing that talking to girls is hard?
 

Dissidia

Premium Member
Says he who is the suspect for the murder of our Shitposting Queen. Kappa
Listen this whole thing is a giant misunderstanding. I will also add that while LisaK says she considered me her friend she blocked my ass the moment Hwang was leaked in first days of April on twitter....

I thought LisaK was coordinating something to bash hwang on reddit, but it turns out she was just friends with someone else who did that. (Also the Hwang movelist evolution was downvoted by 15 people within minutes of it going live)

My insults to poor Yun on reddit eventually reached LisaK and now she is done with me and 8wayrun. The reason why I am different on 8wayrun is because I like the people on here and don't want to upset them (most of LisaK) but I ended up doing that anyways....

The people on discord are more "FGC" people and as such there is no need to be so nice in such rough company.....

-------
This whole spiel is just I felt LisaK portrayed me as some diabolical two face and I felt it was an overreaction. I wasn't at "war" with her, but I suspected she was being coy because she would drop stuff hints about discord in her posts and then edit or delete the post 5 minutes later.

All this arguing over a boy!

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(PS: Before LisaK blocked me on twitter I distinctly remember her tweeting a video of asian guys twerking....)
 

Crash X

[14] Master
Sorry, but I can’t empathize with you there. My general experience talking to girls has consisted of them ranting about how much guys suck, stopping mid rant to say a variant of ‘except for you’, and then continuing on with their rant.

That or being repeatedly asked if I’m gay. One or the other.
No joke, I don’t have the best luck with talking to girls either. Though what’s funny is that I have a number of friends that are girls irl and yet I can still stumble like a dumbass in front of a few of them. Maybe they just find me to be a lovable goofball with a hint of sass.
 

TresDias

[07] Duelist
I was joking about the talking-to-girls-being-hard thing, guys. Just having a little fun with the admission of my suspended reality.
 

Thylacine492

[07] Duelist
I was joking about the talking-to-girls-being-hard thing, guys. Just having a little fun with the admission of my suspended reality.
I realized it was a joke, I just wanted to continue the line of thought with a somewhat joking response.

My response wasn’t a lie by the way, both of those things have happened multiple times over the last few years.
 

AriesWarlock

[12] Conqueror
If you think talking to girls is hard, try being a girl. It's not a walk in the park. :sc5nat1:

Especially a girl who's into non-girly things like SoulCalibur. :sc1ivy1:
Do you punch your friends playfully? Because I knew a few girls who were not into girly things, and they shared that trait of... being a little rougher than girly girls lol.