SC5: Improved Competitive Ideas

Destinizish said:
Your theory of, "JFs turn the casual players off" is pretty wrong. SF is one of the biggest fighting games out there right now, competitively and casually, and it uses 1 frame links in BLOCKSTRINGS.
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But you don't get the "I'm special!" flash which scares casuals. (Main reason I came to that conclusion is because I've had a lot of players freak out when I do something like Cassie's 4BB:A. Doesn't matter that it's stupid easy to do, it flashes, so they'd start screaming about how they actually have lives blah blah blah...)

Also, a lot of players (Even casual ones) love high execution characters. While some may not, adding characters like Setsuka isn't a bad thing. Besides, the execution in SC4 is piss easy, why not have something to make it a bit harder?
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Making execution harder just for the sake of making execution harder is a pointless barrier.
 
IvyFanboy said:
We have a few SC5 threads (so feel free to relocate i this doesn't warrant it's own specific one)

I love SC4 and i feel it was the right direction for the game to be more competitive, but I can't help but notice some things could be done better to make it even more so:

Identifiable Grabs - One issue I have with grabs is you have to guess A or B. I'm fine with having to choose between two options but I feel their should be a visual distinction between the two grabs. Perhaps A grabs start with left hand and B grabs start with the right. they'll look similar but it will give you enough of a clue to get out. Fighters have guessing moments at times, but their is always a moment you can visually readjust if another option was selected. With throws it's luck if you guess right and you have no way to tell which is coming apart from RO setups and other things.

ROs shouldn't always kill - I never whine about most ROs but I feel they can be done better and it would be better for both the casuals and the competitive community. When you RO an opponent it should simply drop down to a new level, inflicting massive damage on the fallen opponent and putting them at disadvantage. Sure it can end a fight but it will only take 33-40% max damage away allowing a person to live if RO'd too soon. It will also look visually cooler and not feel so cheap.

Breakable walls - Now we've seen this a little with levels like the pirate ship but wouldn't it be cool if the stage could open up or close as the fight progresses, altering the strategy? Say you're on a circular balcony with walled segments preventing you from running around it. You could break those down with wall splats and the stage would get longer. Naturally you would need an unbreakable wall that would stop an infinitely long stage. You could also have walls that would do more wall splat damage or change things. A spiked wall for example would have a very nasty stun and damage and a wall with a chain might force a gate to drop if smashed.

Armor Break Redone - I like the armor break idea but in SC4 no one would intentionally aim to break armor off and in BD it made no sense with being cumulative. I think the way it breaks should be the same, but the result different. If you break off armor it should result in certain moves dealing a different kind of hit stun AND a minor boost of damage to that area. Now the improved stun may only be a few frames, but some will cause a shakable stun or open up new combo options, making it more rewarding to actually attempt armor breaking.
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1. No, Tekken is the only game with indentifiable Grabs, Grabs are still indentifiable grabs in this game. However, you have to look at it from a different prespective.

2. No, RO's are meant to kill, if you nerf that, you nerf ALOT of characters in this game.

3. i like the idea....it is in incentive.

4. Yes, it needs to be redone a little. Let Grabs break High Armor since you can...oh idk....DUCK THEM TO AVOID THEM. Teaches you to either break them or avoid them.

I'll suggest more, but i'm @ work
 
IvyFanboy said:
My idea still uses ROs, they just don't instant kill all the time. They do a set amount of damage. They'll still be an integral part of the game and can result in wins, but it gives players the chance to recover from one mistake while not always ending the match. Ever been RO'd on the first move of Seesaw level?
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I wouldn't mind seeing this, but not as a replacement for ringouts. Maybe have some stages with this "non-instant loss" RO. I wouldn't mind it, but not having it wouldn't bum me out either. As for me, all I want to see is, like Malice said, is more attention to the details as a whole game. Please, no more guest or bonus characters. Guest characters are kind of fun, but seeing more addition to the cast would be more satisfying.
 
Xephukai said:
I wouldn't mind seeing this, but not as a replacement for ringouts. Maybe have some stages with this "non-instant loss" RO. I wouldn't mind it, but not having it wouldn't bum me out either. As for me, all I want to see is, like Malice said, is more attention to the details as a whole game. Please, no more guest or bonus characters. Guest characters are kind of fun, but seeing more addition to the cast would be more satisfying.
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KEEP VADER other than that I don't care as long as they balance it well
 
Aragh said:
@LostProvidence
so increasing SG damage will make turtling a thing likely to cause someone to lose even more than it is now. That will pretty much exclude turtling from the list of viable defensive playstyles, thus making whole game system more offense-favoring. I wouldnt like that. Its just my subjective opinion.
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I don't mean to the point of demolishing it. Honestly, I think the way it is in Broken Destiny is great.
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Marginal said:
Making execution harder just for the sake of making execution harder is a pointless barrier.
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I don't think there's any character in the game that requires just frames other than Sets. And, even still, Sets does a shit-ton of damage off of anything, so I figure it's warranted.
 
Lostprovidence: I can see your point. JF's should still keep the special properties but at least make them harder to perform. Like Setsuka's.

The Guard Crush system need to be revamped like how it was in SC2 and SC3. For example when you eat a Natural Guard crush, you're going to be eating some damage, forcing you to not be so defensive. If you add that simple property, the current SG system wouldn't be that bad to deal with like how some people complain about....
 
I want Soul Charge back in the game. That shouldn't have been removed. It's almost a series trademark.
 
LostProvidence said:
I don't think there's any character in the game that requires just frames other than Sets. And, even still, Sets does a shit-ton of damage off of anything, so I figure it's warranted.
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Bear in mind, I'm mainly arguing against adding even more JF's.
 
I think they should make execution easier. It's really exciting when someone out mindgames another guy and predicts their moves, but it's just embarrassing when a big turnaround is because someone was a frame off on their JF. I think JF's should just be a slightly bonus in damage or safety, not make it a completely different move. Maybe keep Sets the way she is for people who like that, but shit like Talim 236A236B and Rock PT should be easier. Also, -15 moves should stay -15 but have longer blockstun and longer ending animation to make it easier to punish with i15 moves.
 
Aragh said:
No way. I dont like a whole SG and CF idea at all. Turtling is just another style of playing. Its the same in FPS's where people bitch and whine about camping. Campers camp, turtles turtle. Its their choice how they play the game. End of story.
I just dont want SC to turn into an all out offensive game. I favor a balance between offensive and defensive options.
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I favor a balance in this regard too(I'm kind of a defensive player myself), however I do not mind the idea of CF being strong perhaps even a tad stronger. Even pre-patch when SG damage was higher, there were options against it. Most good SG damage came from steppable moves and almost all of them were also slow enough to be interrupted, even after being at disadvantage from being hit. Attacking can be considered a defensive option in some circumstances, and I like how the SG system (as the previous guard crush system tended to work) brings that to relevancy.

To cede the initiative to the opponent should rarely be rewarded, but actively played defense is more defensible.
 
I actually prefer to have soul charge removed haha. Nightmare's "soul charged stance" in SC4 was a much more brilliant idea. Or SC2 Taki's exorcism cancel.

I think if SC5 has online play, I would want to see it run on 40 frames per second instead of 60 frames. If it happens, we can take some time to further clean up the move list. Take moves away or make them more distinct and useful
 
Chickenwing said:
The Guard Crush system need to be revamped like how it was in SC2 and SC3. For example when you eat a Natural Guard crush, you're going to be eating some damage, forcing you to not be so defensive.
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Completely agree. Guard Crush was always another good option to add into the mindgames. This and a lot of the cancels and fakes that were in previous installments.

Shenrei said:
I want Soul Charge back in the game. That shouldn't have been removed. It's almost a series trademark.
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I still can't think of a good reason that this was removed. I understand that a lot of the players here started with SC4, however, so they don't really understand the dynamic.
 
Furthermore about Soul Gauge, (and this is just a creative thought here) I think moves that automatically have charge (you know moves that automatically have bolts of lightning) should cost some of their own Soul Gauge.

Every time I see a blue orb flashing, I think more can be done. Maybe at the highest Soul Gauge level SC characters can only access to Soul Charge level 3 but of course that will cost a lot of Soul Gauge.
 
Can someone post some videos where soul charge was used really well? The only one I ever see it using well in any game is NM.
 
An idea came into mind but I'm not sure whether this may alienate too much of the SC fans.

I was thinking a jump button maybe nice.

Here's why:

-If a character can run in 8 directions and step in 4 directions why not have a character jump in 5 different directions (backward, straight, forward, left and right).

-Replaces 7_8_9G so that players may not have to accidentally jump.

-Pressure sensitivity button for certain characters such as Taki and the Apprentice. A slight tap will make them do a regular jump whereas a hard push will make them perform a high jump.

Since this is a 3D fighting game I suppose having the jump button while give more of a 3D interaction.

Now don't get angry if you disagree with me; I just did it for the sake of fun and out of boredom.
 
I think the addition of a jump button would be unnecessary. The added extra movement options could be unique, but I can't help myself from imagining a game where players leap around like rabbits to quickly evade in directions.

I guess either I think it wouldn't be used enough to justify putting it in, or it would be used way too much and just look ridiculous.
 
I'd really want this in sc5:

Been screwing around a little with special versus the last few days to see what I've been ignoring for the past two years and found something I think it could go straight into normal play; the Charge Cancel skill. Basically you can cancel any move as soon as it hits, blocked or not, as long as you're on the ground AND got enough SG, as it costs a hefty amount of SG to do and cannot be done if you don't have enough.

The thing this does to the gameplay is pretty interesting imo. By sacrificing SG you can create combos that packs more punch, use it for pressure or to escape a punisher, etc. It's not that overpowered either as you put yourself in a lot worse defensive position because of the SG, coupled with that it, as is, likely cannot be used more than once per match. It also adds more strategy when choosing between repelling or parrying.

Also, a lot of moves and NC strings also transform into much more interesting tools, like minas 6AK, which suddenly can combo into a 3B combo, which imo is pretty significant for her.

Anyway, I recommend checking it out, even though it's special vs, because it's fun as heck to just toy around with.
 
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