sytus
[14] Master
Why is Asta's tier position so polarizing, he's either viewed as super strong or super weak compared to the rest of the cast.
SC6 Tier list for Season 2
- Thread starter Angrel-San
- Start date
Why is Asta's tier position so polarizing, he's either viewed as super strong or super weak compared to the rest of the cast.
Crash X
[14] Master
It’s because he’s a very read dependant character. He’s good at it but he’s very reliant on them. And this makes him a character that will either fuck you up or have him become completely unreliable.
The nerfs are pretty rough for Asta’s gameplan. This whole video breaks down the changes for Astaroth.
sytus
[14] Master
I do think that Astaroth should make his opponent eat A+B from a level 3 grab break, that nerf to where you can side step it was unnecessary.
Crash X
[14] Master
Well, the video pretty much explained it all. A+B nerf was arguably his biggest nerf. Astaroth got hit pretty badly and the universal changes to the grapple breaks drag him down even further.
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
That video is cringe.
I wish I had proper equipment so I could show people a real Astaroth master.
The nerfs are minuscule. That +6 on command throw break is a relief though for the opposition.
As long as he is still a robbery character with his reversal RO and overall RO game, huge damage on almost anything on hit (3-4 is the magic number for Astaroth), extremely good offense frame data, decent Soul charge option attacks, he is still good.
Remember, Astaroth is the blender. You aren't doing the blender, you aren't playing Astaroth correctly.
And you are right about the reads. With a read heavy person on control of Astaroth, he is really scary.
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
OP was sarcasm. This character can't be the worst in the game with things like this like the dude in the other video.
Astaroth is a menace and will always be as long as he has the blender options.
Astaroth is a menace and will always be as long as he has the blender options.
Foot
[12] Conqueror
why does it look like if you had equipment you would post the cringiest asta video ever ?
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
Nah, you would be surprised with Joyo.
Playing Astaroth since the SC1 days and many times tourney winner here in Puerto Rico.
IMHO, he ranks as one of the best Astaroths ever and that includes Saitoh.
Playing Astaroth since the SC1 days and many times tourney winner here in Puerto Rico.
IMHO, he ranks as one of the best Astaroths ever and that includes Saitoh.
Foot
[12] Conqueror
Then again he apparently ranks asta toptier so the rank best asta ever sounds fishy. 
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
The more I play Hwang, the more I like him.
He has style but he seems pretty weak.
The Lifeforce system is a handicap.
Time will tell but so far right now, he seems bottom 5.
I'm disappointed that SCCs cost 2 Lifeforce plus scales.
He has style but he seems pretty weak.
The Lifeforce system is a handicap.
Time will tell but so far right now, he seems bottom 5.
I'm disappointed that SCCs cost 2 Lifeforce plus scales.
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
I like being underestimated.Then again he apparently ranks asta toptier so the rank best asta ever sounds fishy.
Norman was underestimated and he has won the Soulcalibur World championship how many times? And comes from our neighbor country.
That's alright, keep underestimating. Better that way.
Haters gonna hate anyway so whatever....
Foot
[12] Conqueror
This doesnt have anything to do with underestimating anyone but if someone at the same time claims to be worldclass astaroth but also ranks him top 10 it kinda undermines the argument of understanding how good the character is. Especially in sc6 where every character is fuckin insane and asta pretty much got buffed every patch just to be able to keep up.
If this was any other title in the series maybe he would be top but in sc6 yea nah.
If this was any other title in the series maybe he would be top but in sc6 yea nah.
sytus
[14] Master
It is. From a story perspective it's good, but in practice it punishes you for optimal play. Because this system is so integral with Hwang's character and Taoism, I don't see how they can rectify this unless Zasalamel with his extensive knowledge develops new talismans in SC7 that stops this life drain. Hwang is in a similar spot to where Taki is to a degree. From a lore perspective her Mekki-maru makes sense, but in practice it makes for unsatisfying combat as a core part of her gameplan is to do damage on block.
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
Think whatever you want.
He kills you in 3-4 successful hits (hits to combos, JF Command Throws, SC Command Throws extensions) and his approach is pretty safe while being the one that dictates space in the ring at almost all times.
You have to play almost perfect to defeat Astaroth while he can be aggro and has the blender, WHICH IS ALWAYS A FACTOR.
Astaroth has been Top Tier in SC1, SC3 AE and here in the last patch with that ridiculous +8 Blender mixup after throw break.
In this patch, is still early but is still 3-4 hits.
Astaroth is weak in SC6 is just a MEME. Last patch was his strongest version ever and his nerfs are there but again 3-4 and very good frame data.
He kills you in 3-4 successful hits (hits to combos, JF Command Throws, SC Command Throws extensions) and his approach is pretty safe while being the one that dictates space in the ring at almost all times.
You have to play almost perfect to defeat Astaroth while he can be aggro and has the blender, WHICH IS ALWAYS A FACTOR.
Astaroth has been Top Tier in SC1, SC3 AE and here in the last patch with that ridiculous +8 Blender mixup after throw break.
In this patch, is still early but is still 3-4 hits.
Astaroth is weak in SC6 is just a MEME. Last patch was his strongest version ever and his nerfs are there but again 3-4 and very good frame data.
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
He does have good chipping tools.
I like SC 2B+K B. That's a huge chunk.
I don't like his A+B. The hitbox is small + slow, they need to fix it.
Shame that 1K and 4AAB don't ground like in the past.
Foot
[12] Conqueror
Yea dont know what you are on about man. Killing someone in 4 hits isnt an argument when it comes to grapplers cause thats simply their design. It doesnt mean the character is good just because he gets damage for making a huge read thats just called balance. And you dont have to play perfectly against astaroth ,yea dont run into every fuckin 6k he throws out and break grabs but aside from that if you know the matchup and dont let him rush you down which isnt too hard to prevent what is he really gonna do ?.
And im not saying he doesnt have good buttons or even that he is lowtier but calling him top 10 in this game is just ridiculous he has some of hte worst matchups in the game. He always has to make guesses which can literally lead to nothign if you get unlucky. Yea he has some pokes that are solid but again if the other guy knows the matchups yea they wont do too much.
His sc and ce are good thats true but there are many others who are just as good or even better. His Re options are solid the only problem is he cant engage it cause his RE is slow as shit. He can pressure your guard i guess but oh yikes asta doesnt get anythign of guard breaks :(
And im not saying he doesnt have good buttons or even that he is lowtier but calling him top 10 in this game is just ridiculous he has some of hte worst matchups in the game. He always has to make guesses which can literally lead to nothign if you get unlucky. Yea he has some pokes that are solid but again if the other guy knows the matchups yea they wont do too much.
His sc and ce are good thats true but there are many others who are just as good or even better. His Re options are solid the only problem is he cant engage it cause his RE is slow as shit. He can pressure your guard i guess but oh yikes asta doesnt get anythign of guard breaks :(
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
6K? LOL! 6K is mostly reverse RO material if you are unaware.
Break grabs? I don't think you understand how taxing it is to be in an Astaroth blender. IT DRAINS YOU with all the throw breaking while he is in advantage in frames and terrain.
Don't let him rush me down? Bullrush mixups and the Astaroth's DELAYS come in play.
You don't get it.
Break grabs? I don't think you understand how taxing it is to be in an Astaroth blender. IT DRAINS YOU with all the throw breaking while he is in advantage in frames and terrain.
Don't let him rush me down? Bullrush mixups and the Astaroth's DELAYS come in play.
You don't get it.
Foot
[12] Conqueror
I mained Asta I, get it. But i just think you are delusional when it comes to have good he actually is. Especially now after that last patch.
I'm really not someone who downplays a character i never argued that he is bad. He is a solid mid tier maybe now not so much anymore than before. But if you legit compare him to the rest of the roster he falls short.
I'm really not someone who downplays a character i never argued that he is bad. He is a solid mid tier maybe now not so much anymore than before. But if you legit compare him to the rest of the roster he falls short.
Crash X
[14] Master
And exactly HOW are the nerfs minuscule? He’s lost one of his best options after a grapple break which was 66B to catch backsteppers while he was plus. That’s minuscule?! A+B no longer catches sidesteppers after a level 3 GI. Especially given Asta’s lackluster post GI game. That’s minuscule? Asta’s command throws are 1 frame less safe on RE which prevents him from sidestepping straight after the RE deflects it and allowing him to whiff punish the RE with moves like his CE or 22B into the LH. This is buried even further against those with RE cancels. But no, apparently that’s “minuscule” as well...
And even if he’s on plus after a throw break he still has to commit to his choice after he’s on plus. If he went for 66B he had to make sure they were backstepping and it’s easily punishable with i14’s and faster. If he went for a grab it could be disrupted by breaking or ducking and him eating the same shit he could have dealt out. Low grabs are only a useful option if your opponent goes for a crouch. And even then it’s not reliable. He has no truly reliable to use after a grab break and all of his options are susceptible to some form of counterplay.
Asta doesn’t even have good frame data either. He’s one of the most sluggish characters in the whole game with terrible guard punishment. And his frames on block aren’t that impressive either. He gets severely crippled by those with a good i10 and i12 (especially someone like Raphael). He isn’t capable of sustaining any offense without proper GI timing straight after using safer tools like 4B or 66K, and even then this isn’t that reliable which can cost him his turns. He’s only ever truly oppressive in Soul Charge.
He may kill you off in 3 to 4 hits, has a few decent buttons in neutral, carries an i12, a good Soul Charge, push you back out with some of his moves with good range, grab break LH, and has a good RO game but so many others can do those things and yet are pulling these off much better and more consistently than him atm. Zasalamel has a much better mixup game into RRO than Astaroth does and unlike Asta, has better tracking into it. Amy’s grapple break LH currently deals more damage than Asta’s. Ivy and Mina have superior options for keeping out and than Asta does and unlike Astaroth, have superior movement compared to him. Voldo, Groh, Raphael Mitsu all have better buttons than Asta in a neutral game. NM, Sieg, Cervy, Sophitia and Hilde have just as much reward as Asta on a whiff punish yet take slightly less risk than him (maybe except NM) and much the zoners they also have superior movement over him, and Cassandra is much better at playing rushdown than Astaroth is. Asta may have tools for the situations he’s in but he’s not at all reliable for these things. His armor is utter trash too, and his matchups are some of the worst in the game. That’s why he’s constantly labeled as a walking diceroll. I don’t think Asta is a bad character all things considered, but there are far more reliable characters than him.
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Angrel-San
[10] Knight
No, it isn't. That's a big one.
A+B is still good, just not as ridiculous but is still a very good A+B.
Since SC1, Astaroth's post GI game has been one of the better ones. Obviously not as good as SC1 since you couldn't reGI an Astaroth Command throw back there but Astaroth (and Kilik's Nuke) are the only ones that have that throwback property and can grab a RE with a full charge Command Throw read. That's one of many good post GI options he has. The character, like you said, is heavily designed on reads and GIs for his offense to flow and obviously the blender.
Yes, Astaroth's blender is all about the guessing part but guess what? His number to kill, like I said, is 3-4 and you AREN'T gonna guess correctly all the time, and if you say yes, you are lying. When part of his offense involves guessing, it is incredibly effective since it isn't about frames and frames punishment, it is about YOMI and Astaroth is all about mostly safe YOMI.
Again, YOMI.
He's always oppressive. He only gets more dangerous in SC.