SCV Tier List

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Ring said:
I am just a bit tired of the Ivy players jokes still going strong in the SC community.

I think the fact that at the end of SC4 a lot of people lost respect for Ivy players and referred to them as tier whores (even when in jokes manner, but like you said in every joke there's a grain of truth) and we were a subject of jokes for the whole time was enough of a punishment.
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Well Ring, just look at it in the following way. The 'Ivy player jokes' contain as much truth as your 'Siegfried statements' back then... oh wait... To be honest, I don't really care what you said about Siegfried. Not because it was maybe slightly overreacted, but I highly doubt Siegfried got that nerf just because of you.
But don't ask yourself why 'Ivy player jokes' are so well-known now, when you give/gave them some reasons. *winkwink* *grain of truth* *winkwink*

However, I'm totally not a fan of your constant Ivy-bitching, please stop that, because that's what I'm tired of.

EDIT: I didn't want my first post to turn out that way, I'm sorry about that, but it seems I'm not the only one who thinks like that.
 
Kalas said:
Not because it was maybe slightly overreacted, but I highly doubt Siegfried got that nerf just because of you..
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If I had even a sneaking suspicion that Siegfried was nerfed specifically because of Ring in any way, shape, or capacity, there would at the very least never be any civil conversation between him and myself - hell, he PLAYS Siegfried now...sort of...so that makes him some sort of comrade. No, whoever was responsible for Siegfried's nerf was someone, something much more sinister than an Ivy player. I imagine a fearsome beast, with jaws that bite, with claws that catch, and a huge hard-on for Greeks and stupid high damage punishers that are only -14 on block. A fearsome creature, indeed...
 
Heaton said:
....something much more sinister than an Ivy player...
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You know not of what you speak, Beat-on. You know not the depths of his depravity, the blackness of his heart, the gaping void where his soul should be.
His are the jaws that will crush our hopes, his are the claws that will shape our torment and his hard-on for Ivy and all things BDSM is a fearsome thing to behold, indeed.

Avert not ye eyes and ears, brothers. For I bring tidings of doom. A monster stands amidst us, disguised in the shape of man. It is through his will and his word that we suffer our daily hardships and he would have us blame Namco and ignorant beta testers. But I know the truth, for I am watchful. Soon all will be revealed. And when the time has come retribution shall be swift and without mercy.

So speaketh SaJarJar
 
marinasea17 said:
Everyone placing Raph above bottom tier, get out. Bottom tier is reserved for Raph, he's like... a freakin handicap option!
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not yet.....the worse has still to come...if you find raph weak NOW wait until people actually learn the matchup seriously.....there are so many bad things that only dedicated raph players can spot... -.-


I'd still prefer to know what the hell they thought while developing raph moveset......i mean was nerf on his best pokes/antistep AND RANGE really a necessity?


Well as i say always at least we got a HAT °J°
 
What I want to know is where did the shit from Amy's moveset go. I mean, assuming Raph taught Amy all that, where IS IT. I want her fucking horizontals dammit! And the QCF stance! SPIN!
 
Sacharja said:
You know not of what you speak, Beat-on. You know not the depths of his depravity, the blackness of his heart, the gaping void where his soul should be.
His are the jaws that will crush our hopes, his are the claws that will shape our torment and his hard-on for Ivy and all things BDSM is a fearsome thing to behold, indeed.

Avert not ye eyes and ears, brothers. For I bring tidings of doom. A monster stands amidst us, disguised in the shape of man. It is through his will and his word that we suffer our daily hardships and he would have us blame Namco and ignorant beta testers. But I know the truth, for I am watchful. Soon all will be revealed. And when the time has come retribution shall be swift and without mercy.

So speaketh SaJarJar
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Someday...somehow...

Will I ever...be saved?!
 
Ring said:
I am just a bit tired of the Ivy players jokes still going strong in the SC community.

I think the fact that at the end of SC4 a lot of people lost respect for Ivy players and referred to them as tier whores (even when in jokes manner, but like you said in every joke there's a grain of truth) and we were a subject of jokes for the whole time was enough of a punishment.

I could agree she was upper mid in SC3:AE but no way she was upper mid in the console SC3. The damage output difference between her and rest of the cast was even more prominent than now.
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Well you have to admit that there were many many tier whores back in SCIV that mained Ivy just so they could win. Truth is I only respect you and Malek, the only two real Ivy players, the rest are just tier whores.
 
There are more (if I remember correctly, only Woahhzz and NFK changed their mains). In SC4 I think only the people who mained Ivy from the very beginning had some form of a tournament success with her. The whole tier whore argument was not very credible.

@Kalas, why do you even care about the things I say about Ivy when you focus on a different character. Also no one forces you to read my posts.
 
Cosmic_Castaway said:
I don't consider this arguing. We both have our reasons, and I'm not trying to take your opinion away from you. I just think ZWEI's massively underrated. As you said, it's still early days. Also, EIN allows ZWEI to make himself safe. Just sayin'.

Btw, I don't recall ever "arguing" with anybody in the MvC3 thread other than MysticBoudha, along with someone who was convinced the Quicksilver Glitch should be tournament legal. O.o
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Yeah we had one hell of an argument where you were absolutely 100% in your opinion about firebrand being top tier like the best character in the game bla bla. Then about all firebrand players dropped him after people caught up to his gimmicks.( i still play him ) I think he's a good character not just top tier material.Chris G used him a bit recently though. But this is not the UMVc3 thread.

About ZWEI i have to completely disagree with you but i'll give you a bit of credit too. You say ZWEI is S tier. Seriously i almost pissed in my pants when i read this. Thanks for a good laugh man. On the other hand i do agree with you that he can be underated. I do think that people don't play ZWEI to his full potential as of right now. But with his full potential unleashed he will never get to S tier at all. ( just like firebrand ) ZWEi relies on delay's and mind games to force either some kind of too early reaction that gets punished or some excessive blocking allowing you to pressure a lot. With this said he need to first install a situation to become dangerous. Now lots of characters don't even need to play with your head. They just are that good. Zwei is good if you get initiative over your opponent. Problem his its hard as fuck to get it. Without initiative he looses to about everyone in the game at all ranges. At close he's slow as hell. At mid and far range, his moves are easy to react to and horribly slow so you can whiff punish for free with any good mid or long range character.
So as long as you dont have initiative ZWEI is the worst character ever. If you have initiative hes good. Hence he's a bit better then shit tier which everyone puts him in. Id put him like Synraii did. Almost shit tier.
 
darkfender said:
You want raph to use "ballet" moves?
maybe dressed as a gothic lolita?

ewwww
i prefer the bottom tier with the stylish hat actually.
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No, I just mean not utterly shit horizontals. Also, Amy's moves felt more... vicious than Raphael's to an extent in 4. Hard to explain, she looked like she was putting everything behind her heavier moves, and I mean everything.

Really, I'd just like some of her stuff to round out Raph's moveset... or bringing back some of Raph's old horizontals.
 
About Nightmare : I'm still thinking that he is stronger than on Maxou's or Saitoh's list.
Of course the character is very slow and pretty unsafe. But he really can compensate those weak points.
The movement are something really important in this game. Nightmare's one are top tier.
Combined to his whiff punish capacity, it make him a very good character on my point of view.
Against passive character, his throws are more than correct, and he is one on the best character to break the guard bar.
I think that he is one tier better on both list (C and upper mid).

Heaton said:
The only real difference is 3(B) ~ SCH B isn't NC anymore,
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That's a legend too. This was never NC. And yes like you said the character was never "really strong" or "broken". Top tier Siegfried was just a legend. But this one became true in people's minds. I guess that Namco just made the decision to kill this legend, and to definitively avoid complaining about this character.

I don't think that Siegfried get a nerf only because of Ring. But because of people like him. People who are able to use strong word like "overpowered", "Broken", "nerf" without any knowledge, just with first impressions. Without any prudence. And now, even if the game is release, this phenomenon is still going on.
"This character is too strong, my character is too weak... OUINNN". This without true justification, just because they saw something who can look likes broken
(I remember when people start to complain about Nightmare's CE).
The game is still young. The general lake of knoweldge about this one is still obvious (an that's normal).
Those people should be really more careful, especially when, like Ring, they have a lot of followers.
Why ? because if not the game will never be balanced.
It seems that Namco is listening to much to the mass community, the mourners. But it's understandable, they are doing more noise than the careful people.
They are complaining over and over again everywhere on forums, they are spamming Daishi's twitter.

With the patchs we won't have a balanced game, but an "avoindingmournerscomplains" game. The game seems really in the hands of the community... but in fact now it's a problem.

I heard some rumors about the next patch. It seems that Ivy will got a very huge buff. Siegfried will be nerf.
If it's really the case : Misssion complete Ring, congratulation. :-)
 
Pantocrator said:
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I do agree with you Pantocrator but of what i've read here. Most of the community agrees that Siegfried is ass tier in the game. Even if Ring and some other did say some illogical things it is far outweighted by all of us who still say Sieg isn't really good without being the worst character in the game. Sieg needs a bit of a buff i do agree but not much. Ivy is already fine as she is in my opinion.

Esperons une patch qui equilibreras bien les choses, autrement dit sans tres gros changements SVP.
 
Ring said:
Stop calling Ivy players spoiled, it's getting ridiculous. ... She was only strong in SC2 and SC4. The rest was low tier (SC1) or mid (SC3, BD, SC5).

Ivy right now is somewhere between lower mid and mid. She will become full mid after the patch.
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thats kind of the point he's bringing up.

Ivy being ~mid tier in SC5 currently is unacceptable by you despite being mid tier should be some sort of average for all the cast.
There were already 2 iterations of the soul series were ivy was indisputably dominant. I don't like putting words in people's mouths, but it seems you'd only be satisified if ivy is consistently high tier or greater. And if that is the case, then kalas is spot on in his comments on ivy players.

I'd be absolutely delighted if my main was consistently "only" mid tier for the soul series, but that's another discussion for another day.
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and just so this doesn't turn into a "lets gang up on ring" thread, I suspect two things regarding balance:
1.Some of the higher ups in the balance department of project soul has a real hard-on for the alexandras and other characters. Maybe the staffing seems to change, but it wouldn't be a completely brand new staff so those with greater influence would have their own character biases.
2.that all those online gameplay data being gathered, maybe they're analysizing which moves are being overly spammed or which character is being underused so they can make appropriate changes. Tournament quality gameplay for analysis is too low volume currently to be useful.
 
WuHT said:
thats kind of the point he's bringing up.

Ivy being ~mid tier in SC5 currently is unacceptable by you despite being mid tier should be some sort of average for all the cast.
There were already 2 iterations of the soul series were ivy was indisputably dominant. I don't like putting words in people's mouths, but it seems you'd only be satisified if ivy is consistently high tier or greater. And if that is the case, then kalas is spot on in his comments on ivy players.
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Not only kalas but Pantocrator too. Kind of self centered way to think
 
Sieg will not get a nerf, even if namco listens to the community as you are saying they already now he is one of the weakest characters on the game, besides what else is to be nerf about him? Give PS some credit, they are not stupid, they know to which complains to listen to and to which don't. The next patch should buff both Ivy and Sieg, both need it. We won't get a perfectly balance game but at least something better than crap calibur IV.
 
Azazel said:
Sieg will not get a nerf, even if namco listens to the community as you are saying they already now he is one of the weakest characters on the game, besides what else is to be nerf about him? Give PS some credit, they are not stupid, they know to which complains to listen to and to which don't. The next patch should buff both Ivy and Sieg, both need it. We won't get a perfectly balance game but at least something better than crap calibur IV.
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I was optimistic like you before. I was thinking "don't care about injustified complain on forums, Namco won't listen
to them". Then they killed Siegfried.

A lot of people are saying that Siegfried is weak. That's true. But There is not so much complaining about this.
It seems that Siegfried players are not really complaning people. At least less good at this than Ivy's ones.

It's nothing beside the past complains about the Legendary Siegfried, when people were totally crazy. I guess Namco prefer that.

Unfortunatly my rumors are not only supposition....
 
MysticBoudha said:
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I said Firebrand had the potential to be one of the best. No way is he the best lol.

I don't see how you can say you think ZWEI is underrated btw, when you're just putting him outside of shit tier, like everyone else. Even if he doesn't reach S tier, despite the amount of potential I think he has, I can't see him being C tier for the entirety of this game's life.
But hey, not like I'm gonna play the character to prove it, so
distr2.gif
 
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