Should Algol Be Banned

Banning Algol From Tournaments?

  • Yes, ban Bubble boy. And All his sheninigans.

    Votes: 86 41.3%

  • A partial ban. Ex. His bubble Shield.

    Votes: 20 9.6%

  • No, ALGOL BANS YOU!

    Votes: 102 49.0%
  • Total voters
    208
ok here we go...

anybody in the tri-state area i challenge them to a MM of FT5 for $50... i'll play algol... cuz you know...he isnt as broken as every1 says he is.
 
warble said:
If I see you trying to do some unblockables with Ivy in a major tournament I'll make sure I don't avoid them just so I can JI them. Just so you know there are people that can do it every time. No comparison to Algol, and even if he isn't banned in this round he surely will be next time around.
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you do know the "should Ivy be banned" comment was a joke right >.>
but anyhow I still don't think Algol is worthy of a ban, however I agree completely agree with what Jaxel said. If the player himself is detrimental to the community as a whole, seeing as how so many people find him "broken" it just a wise decision to ban him to keep people playing the game. Weather or not if its the right choice will probably never ever be settled, the decision was made for the best of everyone it seems and that overall is the fairest way to have done this...
 
Yeah, Kosh, way to misconstrue EVERYTHING in my post.

I'm GLAD a decision is being made, actually. And that was my FRICKIN' POINT that someone needs the balls to just step up and say BAM that's how it is.

Now I guess I don't have to brace for Algol in tournies. Fine by me. One less character to learn.
 
Someone who actually knows how to fight Algol in the Northeast (is there even anyone? lol) should accept Ramon's money match and take his money. He has gotten more than a little overconfident because he beat on some people who didn't know what they were doing vs Algol.
 
I'm aware I have zero credibility but I feel like posting and sharing my opinion on the matter anyway.

After reading countless posts going for and against the ban in several threads, both sides have a few decent arguments. However, the majority of the arguments for the ban presented in this thread and the majority of the threads I've read are piss poor.

From what I've read from both CF and 8way, the strongest arguments from those Pro ban are:

1) Algol's bubbles easily give him the ability to control space and your options in that space to a point in which the Algol player (if he/she is smart) is going to know what you're going to attempt to do thus giving Algol the advantage the moment he starts placing them. Many stated that this makes some of his unsafe moves safe and if you attempt to step them, you're going to eat a low if Algol is within range. Judging from the match vids I have seen, I can see what they mean. They also limit your punishment options as the on screen bubbles can interrupt your punishment/combo attempts. Yes, bubbles can be GIed. However, that option still plays a part in the point of the bubbles, to control space and your options in that space. If Algol approaches you right after placing the bubbles, GIing them is pretty much out of the picture.

2) They get in the way of the camera. Not much to explain there.

Those are the only arguments that I think hold any weight in providing a logical reason to ban him and even that's stretching it because it's based upon theory fighting with little evidence of it making a huge impact (IE Algol tournament dominance).

I'm personally still against the ban as the majority of the logic behind the ban isn't strong enough for me to want to support it fully. However, from the arguments I listed that are pro ban, I can semi-understand why some would want him banned.

As for strong arguments that are against banning him (immediately at least), I simple point to the posts made by Josh Ballard on CF. He made a lot of points that I strongly agree with.
 
I guess someone told me that SB3 unbanned him, since it was cutting it so close. Let's see what happens with the Algol players that show up there, and see what people think after that.
 
KowtowRobinson said:
I guess someone told me that SB3 unbanned him, since it was cutting it so close. Let's see what happens with the Algol players that show up there, and see what people think after that.
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Actually, he was never banned. Someone just decided to say that he was and then the tourney director for SC4 had to officially state (again) that he wasn't.

And no matter what happens at SB3 I doubt the Algol debate will be resolved.

Even if Algol dominates there are still two more-or-less irrefutable arguments. Either the people who lost didn't properly counter Algol's shenanigans or the people who won with Algol were the better players anyway and would have won regardless of who they used.

The only way I can see this argument actually coming to a resolution after SB3 is if someone who is universally accepted as a top player uses Algol and is defeated by someone using a character that is generally accepted to have a 50/50 chance or worse against Algol.

Also I think ShinobiBrown summed up the case against Algol pretty well.

I think one of the main problems is that any specific example of a powerful set-up is refuted by simply stating it's counter. Nothing in a fighting game is infallible that's what makes them great. However, some things can still be too good by imbalancing the risk/reward involved in using them.

The typical advice for dealing with bubbles is "Block, Evade, GI" which I think is funny because that's pretty much the counter for everything. The problem I have is that once bubbles are in the air some character's only options are block, evade, or GI meanwhile Algol can take other offensive actions which you must also choose to block, evade, or GI. For almost no risk Algol can reduce any further risk he might take and force his opponent to take defensive action. It's very difficult for anyone to prove that this is overpowered because it doesn't guarantee Algol anything. That doesn't mean it isn't too good, though.

The only way something can be proven broken is if it's completely and totally out of balance with risk/reward (i.e. Ivy's wsB infinite). Anything short of that can't be proven and thus we will have threads like this. As I stated earlier however, I feel it's possible to prove that something isn't broken in-game although it requires a very specific set of circumstances.

Well I ended up kind of ranting an meandering so I'll just end it here.
 
Chickenwing said:
Good sir:

1. I take it that you can smell the sarcasm that was in the post previous to you.

2. It's done and over with, there's nothing you can do about it now...stop this useless crying and reasoning about the banishment of Algol and move on with your life.

:D
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Huh, I wasn't aware that that final point was sarcastic. My bad.

I'm just trying to rationalize this, even if it doesn't make any difference. I just can't wrap my mind around this, it seems so arbitrary. The whole thing's so confusing, it seems like people can't even decide if he is banned or not.
 
This calls for an Algol motivional. gimme a sec to make one.


EDIT:

motivator828377.jpg


Oh! how we banned him!
 
So he is banned for now until namco patches him and then we will have to revisit this stupid issue over and over again with every patch. I hate namco for ever creating this stupid character!!!!
 
Okay, I know I don't have the right to say this since I've only been playing SC4 for like.. a few days and I didn't read every single page here but, if there is a way to defeat Algol's mixup/okizeme/bubble game.. then he shouldn't be banned.

Just to compare, in Guilty Gear, the character Eddie has unblockables that can only be blocked via 3 extremely hard techniques. If you mistime them, you are as good as dead. I wont go into detail how hard those techniques are, but they don't call them unblockables for nothing. In comparison, there is Justice (again from Guilty Gear) who is clearly overpowered in everything (he's of course banned)

Oh another thing... soft consent. I don't know if anyone suggested this but, if the opponent agrees to match up against Algol then why not right? If not, pick your secondary.
 
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