Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

Leonhart

[10] Knight
Perhaps it's because you're playing other chars, thus learning their movesets, pros and cons as well, so when you return to your main, your knowledge of the game as a whole has increased. Happens to me as well, and I'm pretty sure that's the reason.
That would make sense if I'm better against these opponents in particular but I just feel sharper overall, quicker, playing smarter in general. Maybe other movesets give you perspective on things and your brain processes the gameplay differently. Or some shite.
 

Rex Dart

[11] Champion
If SoulCalibur VI dies, I can't help but feel like Bandai-Namco shouldn't bother making another one. They've made (almost) all the right decisions with VI, and no hypothetical, perfect SoulCalibur could ever do better.

But I don't think it's dying. At least, I haven't observed anything like that at my locals or on PS4.
 

Robert_J_King

Royal Impact Style
Then again, the setting already isn't that grounded in reality to begin with, considering Soul Edge's existence, Ivy using alchemy as a source of magical power, Cervantes being too early to jump into piracy (150 years early, to be precise) and Siegfried still fighting in plate armor and with a greatsword at a time where military doctrine goes towards firearms and pikes (which would make Mitsurugi's quest for Soul Edge pointless from the start). And that's if we limit ourselves to a few examples and don't go into Sophitia's case.
I never want to hear about "back to the roots" or "realism" talk ever again. The only "normal" person in the cast is Mitsurugi but even then, he goes on later in the series to cut bullets.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
@DanteSC3 i think you're being a bit too strict about continuity. I doubt the team will place that level of emphasis on it honestly. Now... it might be hypocritical to say this but i really hope they dont include anything from SC5. Then again, not really because SC5 is a huge timeskip. SC2, 3 and 4 all occur within the same year. Characters from those games should be ok to include. I'm not convinced DLC characters will get any story material anyway. Yes, story continuity has been an important focus concerning the base game but i dont see a hugely popular and demanded character like Setsuka being omitted strictly because of continuity.
I disagree that SoulCalibur II-IV get a free pass for being in the same year, because there's still events that take place inbetween those games though in the same year. The cutoff point for SoulCalibur VI is the beginning of SoulCalibur II, so it starts that year, but it doesn't end that year, so anything that takes place during the contents of that year would be off-limits, I'd think so at least. Story continuity has been important for all aspects of SoulCalibur VI, really, so for them to suddenly stop making it be a thing for the DLC characters seems a bit out of left field to me. If Cassandra and Amy don't get their own Soul Chronicles, because they technically already made their presence known in Sophitia and Raphael stories, then like I said before, I feel like that's the last nail in the coffin at believing they'll include any more characters, because if they did bring more characters who aren't in existing stories, then they would have to make stories for them, and they don't seem like they're willing or able to do that.

If Cassandra and Amy don't get stories, then I'd say it's all but confirmed that Tira got a story because she's fake DLC, cut from the game intentionally to sell the season pass, and I can't see any other way to interpret it. 2B not getting a story makes sense, because her continuity is so far removed from the timeline, that it couldn't really be included without cheating, but Cassandra and Amy are both very capable of having stories like Tira, to see what Cassandra was doing when Sophitia left originally and to prepare for her upcoming journey during SoulCalibur II and to see some of the blank spots in Raphael's story from Amy's point of view, similarly to Grøh and Azwel stories.

No one really knows for sure, and I'm not claiming that what I'm saying is absolute fact by any stretch, I'm just taking the information that we have and making what I think is a reasonable assumption for the future. If they wanted to include Setsuka and others, they would have, at the very least, been featured as a cameo character in one or both of the story modes, showcasing a new design, like Cassandra and Amy. Aeon, Edge Master, and especially Hwang are somewhat guilty of this cameo character pattern, but their designs are from SoulCalibur IV, SoulCalibur/V, and SoulCalibur III, so they're much more likened to filler because they're not new. Yun-seong, Hilde, and Algol are mentioned, but not seen, and Setsuka isn't even mentioned at all in either story, only getting a single mention in a tutorial message, almost on the same level as Rock being included only in the museum, not even called by name.
 

Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
You mean something like this?:
View attachment 57635View attachment 57636View attachment 57637View attachment 57638
Yepp, that would be great. I think a lot of people would be happy with some back-to-the-roots weapons/styles. It would be interesting to see how many fans actually prefer realistic/historical vs. abrakadabra magic crap. We could even start a poll here and vote. I undersrand it would in NO WAY be a representation of the bigger picture, but it would indeed be interesting to know what we hardcore fans (and I'm assuming pretty much anyone taking the time to read these posts is a hardcore fan) think about this particular topic. In any case, my vote definitely goes for historical/realistic, of course. And I think it was you who.mentioned a crossover with For Honor would do very well. I agree. Even if someone said that FH chars don't have a story or personality (don't remember which), since when does Namco need a story/personality as an excuse to bring someone? I'm not aware that's one of the "rules" for a character to be included as crossover material. As for the actual character name ('cause that could be another thing , given the FH chars are named after their class/style) we've had characters named "Berserker" and "Assassin". It can't go more generic than that. Still, and call me pesimistic, I don't really see them including any "grounded" styles or weapons any time soon, seems people nowadays prefer non-sense bad-shit-crazy shennanigans than actual, historically-based content. I hope I'm wrong though...
Yeah, I mean that woman in the third picture half looks like she is Ivy's understudy already. But all joking aside, a mace / mornign star would be fine--though it doesn't have to be a classical or western weapon as far as I'm concerned. It would jsut be nice if -some- of the new styles were predicated in actual weapon arts, as was the norm for 95% of the characters in the first three games (SE-SCII) before things took a hard left turn into fantasy in SCIII, insofar as the movesets are concerned. And yes that I who said I always thought a For Honor character would be a good fit, and I agree with you that the lack of strong characerization wouldn't necesarily preclude it; for one, there are named / less generic characters in those games who could be used and even the generic classes actually have very strong character design. The real barrier I think is that (as best I know) there are no sequels or DLC packs on the horizon for FH, and Namco's really only going to want to do cross promotion with a somewhat hot property. Still, as a a consequence of Ezio, we know that Ubisoft is willing to play ball with Namco on this sort of thing--so eventually, who knows?

Anyway, what I really want to see is some form of saber or backsword; literally every single culture in Euroasia from the 7th century forward had some variation on this design (talwar, shamshir, scimitar, szabla, cutlass, falchion, miaodao, the list goes on and on) and a form of martial training associated with, and yet it is somehow absent from SC, unless you count Hwang and Yun-seong's daos (and even if you made that stretch, they are absent now too, while room as been make room for Darth Gerard Way's ridiculousness in the base game). There's about two hundred weapons that I think would make for great styles in Soul Calibur, but if I had to pick one that is begging for proper representation, I would have to go with the saber/backsword generally. As we've discussed before, I think Szabla duelist in the mode of Pan Wołodyjowski would be a great tonal fit for the series:


...but I'd also love to see an Indian character (another culture bizarrely missing from the "stage of history") with a Talwar and shield, seeing as that was the dominant martial style of the subcontinent for about 1,500 years and I think it would fit in great with the Soul Calibur roster. Or alternatively for India, dual patas, as that was an actual historical style of fighting as well (unlike many dual weapons which are often thrown into games because they look cool, even if they were rarely ever used in that fashion in reality? Meteor hammers, a dane axe, a halberd...ehh, I better just stop; I'll never run out of things I'd like to see before the next malfested magic wielder.


Then again, the setting already isn't that grounded in reality to begin with, considering Soul Edge's existence, Ivy using alchemy as a source of magical power, Cervantes being too early to jump into piracy (150 years early, to be precise) and Siegfried still fighting in plate armor and with a greatsword at a time where military doctrine goes towards firearms and pikes (which would make Mitsurugi's quest for Soul Edge pointless from the start). And that's if we limit ourselves to a few examples and don't go into Sophitia's case.
I never want to hear about "back to the roots" or "realism" talk ever again. The only "normal" person in the cast is Mitsurugi but even then, he goes on later in the series to cut bullets.
I think the both of you are completely misinterpreting the nature of Ciruxxx's post and thus missing the point by miles. This isn't at all about narrative constraints or what "makes sense" within Soul Calibur's truly asinine story. Anybody who seriously expects the absolutely whackadoo, goofball narrative of this franchise to exhibit any kind of sense, realism, or even self-consistency (let alone consistency with actual historical fact) needs to have their head examined. It's clearly not what the series is about, has ever been about, or ever will be about. The price of entry for this story about an evil soul-devouring sword is that you (hopefully) are not taking any of it too seriously.

But that's not what we're talking about at all; rather, what we are discussing is the visual design of the movesets and aesthetics of the martial movements presented within them. In the early series, you could clearly see that the movements of the core cast were choreographed by those who had at least a passing familiarity with actual martial arts forms and weapons training; in the first three games, the movements of the characters (with the exception of Ivy, Cervantes and the guest characters) are based on actual historical weapons (and to varying degrees from character to character, the actual historical methods of combat associated with those weapons). Sure, you had your lizardman and your teleporting pirate and so-forth, and in each and every battle, each character was taking twenty wounds that would be crippling or life-ending in reality, but once you made the decision to accept those conceits as part of the game, there was some actual realistic movement (derived from actual martial arts and thus representing actual human biomechanics) underpinning the movesets of the majority of the roster. It was by no means a Virtua Fighter, attempting a super high level of realism as best could be accomplished with the technology of the time, but the movements were at least somewhat loaded with actual weight.

However, as the series progressed and it passed through the hands of new creative directors, it lost some of that talent that had previously somewhat grounded it in real historical forms of fighting, and all of the new weapons started to be goofy nonsensical things that have never existed at any time in arms history--and never would, because they make absolutely no sense. Things like Tira's hoola-hoop of death (which would be, oh I don't know, maybe about fifty times more likely to injure the person wielding it than their opponent--provided said opponent had a sword--since there is no way to hold it where it can't be easily knocked back into your own throat or the trunk of your body with minimal force) or Grohs ridiculous double-sided sword that he holds in its center of gravity and which therefor has less reach, leverage, absolute range and range of motion than just half of that very same weapon would have. At the same time, we began to see Necrids and Algols and Azwels, who could summon their weapons out of thin air. It's become increasingly clear that the newer creative teams were more interested in creating anime style flash than they were in keeping at least one foot of the series planted near actual historical weapons styles.

And let me be clear here: I like some of those more fantastical styles. I can get over the cornball factor and appreciate them for what they are in this video game--movesets that add new colour and texture to the tapestry of this series. As long as they are balanced, I can happily embrace some pretty oddball stuff. But what I don't particularly care for is the fact that these fantasy characters and their fantasy weapons have now completely edged out any new styles based on actual historical weapons. It's been like seventeen years since the last game in the series that introduced at least as many real world weapons as it did sci-fi/fantasy styles (SCII) and close to twelve years since the last game that featured even one new real-world weapon (SCIV). I'm not calling for a purge of all the more fantastical elements--the ship sailed on that as soon as a concept artist for Soul Edge drew up the very first illustration of Voldo's design!--and I don't think that's what Ciruxxx is advocating for either. We just think it would be nice if, in the next game, somewhere between 1) the next guy who levitates around and throws hadoukens and 2) the next neon-haired chick who has a weapon with five blades and three hilts arranged at right angles to one-another (who can also summon lightning bolts for some reason), there was 3) a normal ass dude with a cudgel, or a khopesh, or a scimitar. Is that alright with you, Robert?

And its not about "realism" in the sense of keeping the SoulCalverse consistent with the world we live in, it's about the visual style. More weapons based on actual historical arms forces the devs into having the movesets cleave a little more closely to how the human body actually works and how weapons evolved to take advantage of principles of leverage and reach--and that's going to create an at least subconscious appeal to most people seeing the movesets in action. Because a person doesn't have to know a whole lot about actual weapons training to get a sense of what seems like it is genuine human movement and what doesn't make any sense. Anybody who has ever so much as gripped a broomstick by the middle can figure out Groh's weapon is sheer buffoonery, if they took two seconds to rub a couple of brain cells together. Honestly, I have zero concern about the lack of realism inherit in Grohs ability to turn half-demon with a glowing eye and thereafter speed-teleport around the screen (or for that matter, his ability to shop for clothes and hair dye at Hot Topic, despite living in the seventeenth century) and yet I still find his weapon ridiculous as a basic matter of physical sense. At this stage in Soul Calibur's development, I don't blink an eye at golems, sentient weapons, demon pirates, immortals, wolf spirits, or outlaw ninja magic wood cyborgs. I just want the fools to grip their weapons where it makes basic sense with regard to basic physics. Is that really too much to ask for, do you think?
 
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Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
Enough w/ the double/multiposts posts.
Give me a break; I broke it up into two posts specifically because of your acid-toned whinging yesterday about individual posts being too long for your preference. That's what I get for not going with my gut instinct and ignoring that petty, silly complaint outright. Look, if you don't want to read my posts, just put me on ignore--as I am this point very tempted to do with regard to you. Or, you know, just don't read them when they look too long and taxing for you? Or is the scroll bar on your browser broken?
 

Project Bokuho

[14] Master
Give me a break; I broke it up into two posts specifically because of your acid-toned whinging yesterday about individual posts being too long for your preference. That's what I get for not going with my gut instinct and ignoring that petty, silly complaint outright. Look, if you don't want to read my posts, just put me on ignore--as I am this point very tempted to do with regard to you. Or, you know, just don't read them when they look too long and taxing for you? Or is the scroll bar on your browser broken?
The reason why I told you not to double/multi post is because it's against TOS. You can actually get in trouble for that.
 

Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
In that case, I'm quite happy to roll them back into one and delete the redundancy. The double was only an attempt to acomodate those who seem to have an aesthetic aversion to posts that go on for too long, such that the posts would be somewhat more bite-sized. My own preference is to keep them together though, so I'll match the forum expectations in that regard. Thanks for the heads up.
 

Project Bokuho

[14] Master
In that case, I'm quite happy to roll them back into one and delete the redundancy. The double was only an attempt to acomodate those who seem to have an aesthetic aversion to posts that go on for too long, such that the posts would be somewhat more bite-sized. My own preference is to keep them together though, so I'll match the forum expectations in that regard. Thanks for the heads up.
You're good. I just didn't want you to get attacked by the mods since you're new to site and all l0l
 

Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
I'll give you a little suggestion @Rusted Blade put your texts in a spoiler tag.
Like that:
@UserX...
@UserY...
This way you will not pollute the thread with many huge replys, besides avoiding problems with other users or mods. ^^
Thanks--I'll keep it in mind for judicious use. To some extent, I really don't care about the TLDR crowd; some topics are amenable to concise summary, others are not--and there are plenty of tools for those who think I am long winded to just ignore me outright if they don't think my posts are worth the time. On the other hand, it doesn't really hurt anything to use collapsable boxes here and there either, so I appreciate you highlighting the availability of the tool; I'll implement them where I'm getting particularly verbose.


@Project Bokuho , @LisaK: on the topic of keeping threads clear of distractions, is it perhaps worthwhile for us to delete the last few posts of this diversion into forum etiquette, such that it doesn't clog out the immediately previous discussions?
 
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Klimat

[07] Duelist
No one really knows for sure, and I'm not claiming that what I'm saying is absolute fact by any stretch, I'm just taking the information that we have and making what I think is a reasonable assumption for the future. If they wanted to include Setsuka and others, they would have, at the very least, been featured as a cameo character in one or both of the story modes, showcasing a new design, like Cassandra and Amy. Aeon, Edge Master, and especially Hwang are somewhat guilty of this cameo character pattern, but their designs are from SoulCalibur IV, SoulCalibur/V, and SoulCalibur III, so they're much more likened to filler because they're not new. Yun-seong, Hilde, and Algol are mentioned, but not seen, and Setsuka isn't even mentioned at all in either story, only getting a single mention in a tutorial message, almost on the same level as Rock being included only in the museum, not even called by name.
I think they simply don't plan this far ahead before getting a confirmation that those plans will be guaranteed to manifest.
The base game and Season Pass 1 is what Bamco allocated a budget for. Season 2 may or may not happen depending on sales. Creating all new designs for Yun-seong, Hilde and Setsuka on the base game budget only for Season 2 to never be greenlit after all is said and done would have been a waste of funds that could have been used in better ways to make a better core SC6 instead, ensuring better base game sales, making Season 2 more feasible in return.
 

Ciruxxx83

[04] Fighter
I never want to hear about "back to the roots" or "realism" talk ever again. The only "normal" person in the cast is Mitsurugi but even then, he goes on later in the series to cut bullets.
That's not what I meant AT ALL. What I meant (mean) is IMO, historical-based weapons and styles are way more appealing than fantasy/anime based ones. There's already a ton of fighting games matching that description (BlazBlue, Guilty Gear, MvC, among others) and SC is tilting in that direction, which I believe is detrimental to itself. The fact they left out the likes of Rock and Hwang to make room for the likes of Groh and Azwel seems ridiculous to me, like, really? Even when they were by no means very popular characters, they did have that sense of realism in their styles and weapons. As mentioned by @Rusted Blade, it's the sense of (or actually the "lack of") human biomechanics that sort of bothers me. And again, if I was advocating for realism here, I wouldn't be playing SC at all, given its very core is attached to an unrealistic situation (the evil sword/seed, call it what you will). Now here's a question for you: if PS decided to bring in a newcomer for S2, would you like to have a Warlock-like dude, or a Viola-like gal, or would you rather have a mace-wielder, or a flail and shield (FH's Conqueror to be precise)?
 

sytus

[10] Knight
That's not what I meant AT ALL. What I meant (mean) is IMO, historical-based weapons and styles are way more appealing than fantasy/anime based ones.
They are as you start applying those body movements/stances to those weapons, well in my mind that is.

The fact they left out the likes of Rock and Hwang to make room for the likes of Groh and Azwel seems ridiculous to me
As for Groh it's no real difference to a pole arm when you think about it and the fantasy aspect is no different that Siegfried's weapon as in the blades are much bigger than what is practically possible. As for Azwel, well his weapons fit directly into the lore all the way back to Soul Edge because the astral realm is parallel to the real world, the Soul Calibur sword has been popping in and out of these realms pretty much through all the games so the idea that Azwel can summon astral weapons isn't far fetched within the context of all the games.
 
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