Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

artard4321 said:
A new character usually shakes up the game and it's a way to look forward rather than backwards. It may be true that guest characters are considered "new characters" but at the same time, they don't really transfer over to future titles (except for Kratos becoming Aeon). While there are a lot of classic fans who are happy with the same old thing, there are also fans out there looking forward to something fresh and new the franchise has to offer. New characters (when done right) prevents the franchise from becoming stagnant. Characters like Ivy, Cassandra, Raphael, and Zasalamel were once considered new characters too when you think about it.

As much as I would love classic fighters to come back, you can't really blame people for wanting new characters to join in. Now if they ask for more guest characters however...
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I agree in principle, but the complication here is the "done right" part. Project Soul's track record for delivering non-goofy/not hyper-anime styles over recent entries has been mixed, to say the least. Ivy, Cassandra, Raphael and Zasalamel were all added between twenty and fifteen years ago, respectively. They reflect an (at least slightly) more grounded design style, with regard to both the aesthetics of the character design and the moves being rooted in something at least remotely reflecting actual historical weapons and combat styles. Ok, I'll grant that Ivy was always a little out there with regard to both of those factors (as were others such as Yoshimitsu), but she's grandfathered in, and at least back in the day the more oddball styles were the exception rather than the rule. That trend has now been flipped for some time now: most of what we have gotten over the second half of the franchise have been wizards manifesting their weapons from mid-air, anime-style emos with impractical weapons, or some combination thereof. The only real exceptions to that rule have been Hilde and the SCV dopplegangers (most of whom are disliked in their own right for being needless and inferior variations, though personally I like some of them).

A couple of the more out-there designs have actually worked quite nicely (for example, I think Viola looks and plays amazingly, despite very much being a part of the trend I am talking about here) but mostly we are talking about the likes of Groh, Zwei, Algol, Azwel, and a pack of others with names as stupid as their movesets are silly. So while I agree with you in the abstract that fighters benefit from a good balance between fresh blood and legacy characters, based on what Project Soul has delivered to us when it comes to new characters over the last fifteen years or so, I will very gladly take Hwang, Yun-seong, Rock, Setsuka, Lizardman, Hilde, or most any legacy character over whatever we are likely to get in terms of a new character. But beyond that, whatever we'd prefer in the abstract, I think PS has been pretty clear (if indirectly) about what their design priorities are with this reboot entry: other than Haohmaru, I would not expect any new styles in Season Two.
 
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Dissidia said:
Old characters can be made fresh, look at Mina, amy and cass. We only just got a roster size that's comparable to SC2. We need to pick up the pieces of the past that SC5 blew apart before we move on.

With how little attention Bamco pays this franchise, forgive me for feeling that Project Soul getting budgeted for a fresh new character with no history/nostalgia is lower than them bringing back Viola or Patroklos.
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Recreating old characters are definitely a thing and I do expect old characters to be made new to differentiate them. I was just pointing out that some people do want to see new faces as it expands the game's aesthetics (for better or worse) and that it isn't necessarily a bad thing. It is a risky gamble though but I'm all for it in Season 3 (if we do get one).

Rusted Blade said:
I agree in principle, but the complication here is the "done right" part. Project Soul's track record for delivering non-goofy/not hyper-anime styles over recent entries has been mixed, to say the least. Ivy, Cassandra, Raphael and Zasalamel were all added between twenty and fifteen years ago, respectively. They reflect an (at least slightly) more grounded design style, with regard to both the aesthetics of the character design and the moves being rooted in something at least remotely reflecting actual historical weapons and combat styles. Ok, I'll grant that Ivy was always a little out there with regard to both of those factors (as were others such as Yoshimitsu), but she's grandfathered in, and at least back in the day the more oddball styles were the exception rather than the rule. That trend has now been flipped for some time now: most of what we have gotten over the second half of the franchise have been wizards manifesting their weapons from mid-air, anime-style emos with impractical weapons, or some combination thereof. The only real exceptions to that rule have been Hilde and the SCV dopplegangers (most of whom are disliked in their own right for being needless and inferior variations, though personally I like some of them).

A couple of the more out-there designs have actually worked quite nicely (for example, I think Viola looks and plays amazingly, despite very much being a part of the trend I am talking about here) but mostly we are talking about the likes of Groh, Zwei, Algol, Azwel, and a pack of others with names as stupid as their movesets are silly. So while I agree with you in the abstract that fighters benefit from a good balance between fresh blood and legacy characters, based on what Project Soul has delivered to us when it comes to new characters over the last fifteen years or so, I will very gladly take Hwang, Yun-seong, Rock, Setsuka, Lizardman, Hilde, or most any legacy character over whatever we are likely to get in terms of a new character. But beyond that, whatever we'd prefer in the abstract, I think PS has been pretty clear (if indirectly) about what their design priorities are with this reboot entry: other than Haohmaru, I would not expect any new styles in Season Two.
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I don't expect new characters in Season 2, I was just pointing out why others would like to see a new character. I would like to see a new character in Season 3 in place of a guest character though. Also, you should probably expect a new style in Season 2 even for returning characters. I honestly expect Hwang to actually be further reworked based on his SoulCalibur III: Arcade Edition moveset (though I'd like to think it's different enough) to further distinguish his fighting style since Amy and Cassandra didn't come back the same. If the last character is Hilde then I don't expect a rework but if it's Aeon or Rock then I do expect one, especially Rock.

But I can also see why people don't want a new character. Project Soul hasn't been doing a great job at it and it is a risky move. Personally I do like Azwel's design even though his moveset is too over the top (which isn't to my liking). It's alright though since he is a playable boss-type character in the game. Grøh, on the other hand, is a very ridiculous design which I'm surprised the developers were proud of.

LisaK said:
I can accept Arthur eating Haohmaru and stole his moves for SC VIII. :sc2mit1:
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LOL, that was the joke behind Aeon in SoulCalibur V right? (He ate Kratos which is why he has his moveset?)

But anyway, I can kind of see Haohmaru being recycled into Arthur, kind of. We would have to see how Bandai Namco adapts Haohmaru first. Unlike Mitsurugi, Haohmaru has projectiles which would make him stand out a bit so it would be weird to see his moveset recycled. Bandai Namco did a fantastic job with Akuma and Geese in Tekken 7 though so I'd like to see their take on Haohmaru.

sytus said:
Yep. Not only that but Li Long for example would be greatly expanded on to the point it will be like playing against a brand new character.
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I still want to see Li Long with an actual three section staff (they censored him using a fake three section staff in the European version since Nunchucks were banned). I think a three section staff is unique and aesthetically fits his character.


/endreplies

Although the new characters have been atrocious, I'd still like to believe that Project Soul could pull off a great design. I personally have not been happy with the new designs of Tekken characters since Tekken 6: Bloodline Rebellion but they managed to pull off a great design in Leroy Smith for Tekken 7's Season 3. They mentioned going back to a more traditional design rather than trying to create something completely unorthodox like a flying android with chainsaws or a magical exorcist quincy ripoff. If they could do the same for SoulCalibur then I think they would be able to come up with a good design for a new character.
 
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Personally I think the most likely outcome for Season Two is Hwang, Haohmaru, Setsuka, and either Rock or Aeon/Lizardman in the fourth spot. And then if there is a Season Three (and I think its more likely than not that there will be): Rock or Lizardman/Aeon in the first spot, followed by Li Long, Yun-seong, and lastly either Hilde or an extreme outside chance of a final guest. I think a new original character is probably unlikely even in a hypothetical Season Three.
 
Oh, shit. It's this tired fight again. Dude, this keeps going in circles and there's no point in this. I don't think it's Rock or Lizardman because they're bottom tier in terms of marketability, and I believe the fourth spot is a newcomer after Hwang, Haohmaru and Setsuka. That's what I think, especially given how Okubo inadvertently hinted at it in an interview. It's also a popular theory (I've been on other forums and communities including Reddit). But even then, it's not worth fighting over it.

Until then, I'll just wait and see what they come up with.
 
Aeon has plenty of marketability for the Lizardman race that people are quite fond of. Finishing his moveset and having a proper lizard fighting style would be an amazing addition. His story will involve Rock, which would then prime Rock for an entry as well, which is why I lean towards Aeon over Rock. But Rock first could also happen, using the Lesser Lizardman style like the rest of the game does. But there’s a decent chunk of folks who love the pure and honest soul that Rock represents, which none of the other male characters do.
 
Everyone is always bitchy about newcomers, people were bitchy about Tira and Zas in SC3 and about Hilde in SC4. The SC5 newcomers I can understand, since many of them were clones, but even then, many characters there have cool designs and movesets. People are bitching about Groh now, but when SC7 comes, the complaints will target the first newcomer to be revealed.
 
DanteSC3 said:
Aeon has plenty of marketability for the Lizardman race that people are quite fond of. Finishing his moveset and having a proper lizard fighting style would be an amazing addition. His story will involve Rock, which would then prime Rock for an entry as well, which is why I lean towards Aeon over Rock. But Rock first could also happen, using the Lesser Lizardman style like the rest of the game does. But there’s a decent chunk of folks who love the pure and honest soul that Rock represents, which none of the other male characters do.
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Aeon is far from a marketable character, you are severely overestimating the Lizardmen race's popularity. Also, Rock was never involved with Aeon's story they fought once and thats it, in fact, the only characters that were related to Rock were Astaroth and (terribly done) Cassandra.
 
Macaulyn said:
Aeon is far from a marketable character, you are severely overestimating the Lizardmen race's popularity. Also, Rock was never involved with Aeon's story, in fact, the only characters that were related to Rock were Astaroth and (terribly done) Cassandra.
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Aeon is the one who broke Rock’s Apocalypse axe, which caused him to get a new weapon in his Onslaught mace. Rock defended Bangoo from Aeon, who was attempting an abduction. And I see a lot of people asking about Aeon in different places, here, reddit, Twitter, and otherwise. The demand exists.
 
Macaulyn said:
Everyone is always bitchy about newcomers, people were bitchy about Tira and Zas in SC3 and about Hilde in SC4. The SC5 newcomers I can understand, since many of them were clones, but even then, many characters there have cool designs and movesets. People are bitching about Groh now, but when SC7 comes, the complaints will target the first newcomer to be revealed.
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Yeah, and apart from the SCV newcomers (as you can guess why), they're all accepted and loved. Zas and Tira were welcomed into the community with open arms upon their reveal (though the latter had controversy over being Day 1 DLC). Even Groh is more mixed-positive, leaning to the latter, with much of the "bitching" being roasting in the name of good fun. Meanwhile, Azwel has been a big a hit. I believe a newcomer is fine, especially if they offer something new to the fold in terms of style. Some people will bitch, but let them. There's this thing called a "vocal minority", who shouldn't be catered to because they yell a lot.
 
Nyte said:
Oh, shit. It's this tired fight again. Dude, this keeps going in circles and there's no point in this. I don't think it's Rock or Lizardman because they're bottom tier in terms of marketability, and I believe the fourth spot is a newcomer after Hwang, Haohmaru and Setsuka. That's what I think, especially given how Okubo inadvertently hinted at it in an interview. It's also a popular theory (I've been on other forums and communities including Reddit). But even then, it's not worth fighting over it.

Until then, I'll just wait and see what they come up with.
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The thing is, nobody regards this low-stakes topic as a "fight" until you show up and decide to treat it like one, souring the tone for everyone. Up until that point, it's always a uniformly pleasant discussion based upon reasonable speculation as we each see it. And you don't get to decide what is a worthwhile topic here--not as a formal matter and not by showing up and being obnoxious every time a particular topic comes up. If you don't want to particpate in the discussion then don't. But if you do, make a basic effort to be respectful of contrary positions, to argue from facts (rather than assertions that everybody agrees with you), and not needlessly raise the tension of the discussion from the instant you enter it again. At a bare minimum, stop telling us what is and is not worth talking about.....right before you lodge your own (incredibly strongly asserted) opinion on the matter...
 
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I'm just tired to seeing this crap, and it goes both ways. I've met trolls before who are nothing but trouble. I just believe the S2 is Hwang/Haohmaru/Setsuka/Newcomer, in that order. That's it. I know I'm not the only one either (again, I visit other sites). I'm tired of being told otherwise in a mean manner.
 
No one is telling you anything other than what they believe it will be. You don’t have to agree with anyone else and no one else has to agree with you. No one knows for sure except for Okubo and Project Soul, but there are reasonable arguments that can be made for several folks to take that last slot. We’ll find out later next year. Until then, speculation is free, and it’s definitely not trolling to share your opinion with others, just because your opinion isn’t necessarily agreed with. Like my opinion that Grøh is going to evolve into Z.W.E.I., a far more controversial opinion, I’ve found, we won’t know for sure until it is proven or disproven, but I believe there is more than enough evidence to support the theory. Relax and enjoy each other’s company. That’s a lot more fun, in my opinion.
 
Well I think it's reasonable that the last slot is a newcomer, especially given Okubo's interview with Kayane heavily alluding to it among other reasons. I want to see new stuff, in particular a new female fighter given we don't really have one other than guest 2B. That's all. It's my personal thought on the matter.
 
And you might could be right, though you might also not be. No one else is, or at least I’m not, forcing you to agree with their opinion. But so too should you respect others’ opinions and maybe discuss with them why you or they feel the way that you do. Though I do feel we have beaten this conversation topic to death, several times, and it would have been better if Namco was more forthcoming with the information about what’s included in their season passes. Tekken 7 and Dragon Ball FighterZ got information out when they were announcing their passes, so why SoulCalibur VI couldn’t also, that’s the realest issue we have.
 
Daily (not) reminder (and marketing ploy) that if the last slot for S2 is a newcomer to vote for breadboy.

DanteSC3 said:
Until then, speculation is free, and it’s definitely not trolling to share your opinion with others, just because your opinion isn’t necessarily agreed with. Like my opinion that Grøh is going to evolve into Z.W.E.I.,
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I think I'm riding the train that Groh is blood related to ZWEI or is ZWEI as you say so far.
Otherwise if nothing like that is correct then I'm assuming Groh is EIN because of the color palette.

I'm really excited to see where they take Groh, I'm not particularly huge on his character but he seems quite fun when he's not moody. Love his fighting style though.
 
Starringrole said:
Daily (not) reminder (and marketing ploy) that if the last slot for S2 is a newcomer to vote for breadboy.
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Absolutely. Lucius is the surprise newcomer that no one expected to see in Cassandra’s story. He could wield a dory and have a long bread roll as his joke weapon. It would be glorious and delicious.

Starringrole said:
I think I'm riding the train that Groh is blood related to ZWEI or is ZWEI as you say so far.
Otherwise if nothing like that is correct then I'm assuming Groh is EIN because of the color palette.

I'm really excited to see where they take Groh, I'm not particularly huge on his character but he seems quite fun when he's not moody. Love his fighting style though.
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Either which way it goes, I just hope they really do something with him, and he doesn’t end up being another Setsuka with regards to plot relevance. You can have the sweetest fighting style in the game, but if you’re not doing anything in the narrative, it raises your chances to be cut from the roster and your style being handed off to someone who deserves it less.
 
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