Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

Crash X

[14] Master
Well, for what it's worth, I don't think that is likely to occur often with guests in any fighting franchise: Star Wars characters represent a special case as IP as such cases are concerned because of the tight manner in which they are licensed and how the terms of those licenses are stringently enforced--SW being one of the most valuable and policed properties of the world's largest entertainment media conglomerate.

Also, a physical copy would no longer protect against that with today's technology and EULAs; even if the data is on the disc, they could easily disable access to it in an update if they wanted (though the publisher/developers would probably do everything in their power to avoid this until years after the game was past its heyday, and not at all if they could avoid--they are aware of the potential blowback on this actions, but their hands are sometimes tied if the owner of the licensed IP character decides to enforce the terms of the license and pull the character).

But again, I think that (thankfully) this kind of practice (pulling a character from the game, even years later) is likely to remain the extreme exception, rather than the rule. It's kind of a fluke that Star Wars characters got into SC in the first place: it was a cross promotion thing for The Force Unleashed (which the parties seem to have believed would be massive blockbuster) and even then it never would have happened if the IP had been owned by Disney at the time, but this was a still a few years before that.

And actually, to this day you can still play Star Wars characters on SCIV: any copy allows access to The Apprentice, and you can play Yoda on any XBOX copy/Vader on any PS4 version. And if you downloaded the DLC enabling file on either platform, you can still play all three characters. The only thing which has changed is that if you don't have a copy of that file on your physical drive, you can longer purchase/redownload it. Not that I'm by any means defending the practice: I think it sucks big time that a character can disappear like this (even if it Yoda, maybe the least-liked guest of all time), and I wish that the license had been negotiated differently to prevent this. I'm just underscoring that, unfortunately, these days, whether content stays is a less than ever a matter of how it distributed and more than ever about the license agreements.


Ah, thanks man! I've been kinda-sorta around, but just lurking more than anything: work, home and other obligations have really crowded in during recent months. I was active for a bit weeks back, but all my time for the forum ended up being sucked into updating my gallery thread in the CaS subforum. But with Hwang out, I'll probably be at least a little more engaged for the next little bit. :) By the way, where is Dissidia in all of this? Surely he's not absent at this of all SC moments??
Dissidia is now known as @RyujiSakamoto thanks to some...discrete file searching and sources. Kappa

Still, welcome back you old rusty bloodstained blade, you. :P
 

SAPirata

[05] Battler
Yeah, you're no history buff. during the 15th century, around the middle ages/ dark ages, a lot of black/african people were in still in europe due to the black nobility of the moorish empire. hell, there were even black/african people in greece during the 15th century.
I know pop-history revision (egged on no doubt by the west's never-ending attempts to give blacks a stake in European civilisation) tries it's best to make out that the moors were black, but they really weren't. If they were so central in the history of the Iberian peninsula, there's very little evidence of it in the Mediterranean peoples of today (genetically or culturally).

'Moor' describes the mauritanien berbers, the arab type that can ethnically be seen in the populations of north africa (Morroco, Libya) today. Even today, we don't use the word 'moro' in Spanish to refer to black people, simply indigenous arabs.

Blacks had little to do in Europe up until the 1900s other than slavery, and I don't think it's a theme that'll be too successful in helping give a character populatity.

Or would it? IDK, (Edit) @carriacou posted about a slave finding a piece of soul edge to escape captivity but that's a little too dark for this game I think..
 

RyujiSakamoto

Premium Member
I love Ryuji (best bro and best friend) more than Dissidia now, a game series which used to be brilliant but no longer :(

I'm feeling a little nervous about the end of one of the new episodes which sets the stage for 1600s. Is this setup for SCVII you think? Season 3 is dead?
 

Rusted Blade

[14] Master
I know pop-history revision (egged on no doubt by the west's never-ending attempts to give blacks a stake in European civilisation) tries it's best to make out that the moors were black, but they really weren't. If they were so central in the history of the Iberian peninsula, there's very little evidence of it in the Mediterranean peoples of today (genetically or culturally).

'Moor' describes the mauritanien berbers, the arab type that can ethnically be seen in the populations of north africa (Morroco, Libya) today. Even today, we don't use the word 'moro' in Spanish to refer to black people, simply indigenous arabs.

Blacks had little to do in Europe up until the 1900s other than slavery, and I don't think it's a theme that'll be too successful in helping give a character populatity.

Or would it? IDK, (Edit) @carriacou posted about a slave finding a piece of soul edge to escape captivity but that's a little too dark for this game I think..
Dude, Pirata, I was actually feeling Glitch was a little too harsh with that "Yeah, you're no history buff..." wording, but if it wasn't justified when he said it to you, you've rather made it so with your response. The Iberian peninsula was occupied by the Moors for almost 800 years straight, and for most of that period, Moorish kingdoms controlled more than half of the peninsula, as well as parts of southern France and various other portions of the mediterranean; for a period of over a hundred years, in fact, essentially the entirety of Iberia was under Moorish control. And yes, this has had massive and lasting influence on "the Mediterranean peoples of today (genetically and culturally)".

Furthermore, Glitch flew right by the fact that it betrays a profound lack of basic understanding of history to state there "wasn't anything interesting going on in central/southern africa in the 15th Century (other than slavery)". Apparently you are not familiar with Songhai Empire, The Mali empire, the Kingdom of Mutapa, or the various Bantu states, all of which controlled massive territories protected by equally impressive armies, controlled a significant portion of the world's wealth during this period, and cultivated major centers of art and learning. One Songhai monarch was so rich that he inadvertently collapsed the value of gold across Africa and Europe by giving away too much of the stuff on a tour around his trade routes, wreaking economic ruin across both continents. Africa was anything but the backwater you seem to think it was--as if an entire continent could be, at any point in recorded history.

Look, its cool if you're not a history buff--not everybody has to be, I suppose (though the world would probably be better off if everyone was, if you ask me). But if you're not, its probably not best to come out swinging at someone who criticizes your history-based argument. I mean, one rather key point to consider here is that SoulCalibur never has been remotely based in an accurate representation of history or the real world in any remote sense. But to the extent that you wanted to engage with Glitch over whether or not more non-asian/non-caucasian characters would be nice by using the argument that black people never had a significant role in European history and that nothing of interest was going on in Africa during this period, you have fallen on your face in rather an impressively complete way--indeed, some of what you said and how you phrased it is so ignorant (and so indicative of bias and ambivalence) that it begins to tread into offensive territory. The substantial role these cultures played in both European and world affairs during this period is not "pop history revision", it's history 101...which I urge you to take if you ever have the opportunity.
 
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SAPirata

[05] Battler
Dude, Pirata, I was actually feeling Glitch was a little too harsh with that "Yeah, you're no history buff..." wording, but if it wasn't justified when he said it to you, you've rather made it so with your response. The Iberian peninsula was occupied by the Moors for almost 800 years straight, and for most of that period, Moorish kingdoms controlled more than half of the peninsula, as well as parts of southern France and various other portions of the mediterranean; for a period of over a hundred years, in fact, essentially the entirety of Iberia was under Moorish control. And yes, this has had massive and lasting influence on "the Mediterranean peoples of today (genetically and culturally)".

Furthermore, Glitch flew right by the fact that it betrays a profound lack of basic understanding of history to state there "wasn't anything interesting going on in central/southern africa in the 15th Century (other than slavery)". Apparently you are not familiar with Songhai Empire, The Mali empire, the Kingdom of Mutapa, or the various Bantu states, all of which controlled massive territories protected by equally impressive armies, controlled a significant portion of the world's wealth during this period, and cultivated major centers of art and learning. One Songhai monarch was so rich that he inadvertently collapsed the value of gold across Africa and Europe by giving away too much of the stuff on a tour around his trade routes, wreaking economic ruin across both continents. Africa was anything but the backwater you seem to think it was--as if an entire continent could be, at any point in recorded history.

Look, its cool if you're not a history buff--not everybody has to be, I suppose (though the world would probably be better off if everyone was, if you ask me). But if you're not, its probably not best to come out swinging at someone who criticizes your history-based argument. I mean, one rather key point to consider here is that SoulCalibur never has been remotely based in an accurate representation of history or the real world in any remote sense. But to the extent that you wanted to engage with Glitch over whether or not more non-asian/non-caucasian characters would be nice by using the argument that black people never had a significant role in European history and that nothing of interest was going on in Africa during this period, you have fallen on your face in rather an impressively complete way--indeed, some of what you said and how you phrased it is so ignorant (and so indicative of bias and ambivalence) that it begins to tread into offensive territory. The substantial role these cultures played in both European and world affairs during this period is not "pop history revision", it's history 101...which I urge you to take if you ever have the opportunity.
RE: the Moors, I'm not disputing they didn't exist or have an impact, just that they (the ones occupying places like andalusia) weren't black.

RE: African tribes, sorry I don't think tribal warfare qualifies as interesting, probably the same reason we don't have a polynesian/islander character tbh, the caveman/barbarian/spearchucker trope is tough to develop with any meaning (cheers Rock), especially as they don't really come from established civilisations (I know it's a bit later, but you can't really compare Shaka Zulu's army with that of the British can you?). In South Africa we don't really get taught about black african history, because that demographic is made up of HUNDREDS of different ethnic tribes and reducing them to their small parts is tedious and not very useful (or possibly fair). I guess that doesn't mean you can't make a story out of it, but I would assume it becomes harder as there's not much to play off of.

RE: the third part, I think if someone is going to throw out "there needs to be more X!", I think it should probably be followed by why. Like, evidence against the null hypothesis could be provided, I shouldn't have to provide evidence against the alternative hypothesis. inb4 We Wuz Kangz.
 
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Tikal

[05] Battler
RE: the Moors, I'm not disputing they didn't exist or have an impact, just that they (the ones occupying places like andalusia) weren't black.

RE: African tribes, sorry I don't think tribal warfare qualifies as interesting, probably the same reason we don't have a polynesian/islander character tbh, the caveman/barbarian/spearchucker trope is tough to develop with any meaning (cheers Rock), especially as they don't really come from established civilisations (I know it's a bit later, but you can't really compare Shaka Zulu's army with that of the British can you?). In South Africa we don't really get taught about black african history, because that demographic is made up of HUNDREDS of different ethnic tribes and reducing them to their small parts is tedious and not very useful (or possibly fair). I guess that doesn't mean you can't make a story out of it, but I would assume it becomes harder as there's not much to play off of.

RE: the third part, I think if someone is going to throw out "there needs to be more X!", I think it should probably be followed by why. Like, evidence against the null hypothesis could be provided, I shouldn't have to provide evidence against the alternative hypothesis. inb4 We Wuz Kangz.
Uhh…

I know you brought up the whole “We Wuz Kangz” but uhh… yeah...? Like Rusted said, there were kingdoms and empires at this point in Africa’s time period - The Songhai, Mali, Hausa Kingdoms to name some - of which were far from just simple tribal warfare. You made the point that there was rarely anything going on in Africa that didn’t have anything to do with slavery, but that’s just kind of… not the case..? And even with smaller tribes, it’s not like there isn’t any chance for a character or a story to be had there (like you already brought up, Rock could be considered one)

And hey, let’s say that you’re right in that there’s nothing to make a story from in Africa in this time period. Like Rusted Blade said, this is Soulcalibur:
A tale of souls and swords… Sentient magic swords… Alchemy practitioners and other magic users… skin tight suits and revealing fetish gear in the late 1500s… Ancient Greeks in the late 1500s… fictional secret organizations… hell, even an entirely made-up kingdom in the Holy Roman Empire for Hilde to rule over. It’s not like they can’t or wouldn’t make up or twist other things for the sake of fiction, because the bar for historical accuracy isn’t very high lmao.

I wasn’t going to say anything initially bc I don't think this convo fits the forum, but I found your response very… weird?


But as for me, I wouldn't mind it solely because I'm guessing it would mean more textured/curly hair options aside from the 70s style afro and the... cornrows. I like trying new things in CAS to make hair, but I think that'd be a really cool addition!

....I've just realized how all of my thoughts on new/upcoming DLC are pretty much directly tied to CAS... I need to actually play this game sometime.
 

Tikal

[05] Battler
Why is she quitting? Did something happen?
I think there was some drama here a little bit ago that happened involving her that caused her to leave here (or I think at least not be as active), but idk why she's quitting fighting games entirely. My memory isn't the greatest.
 

Spartan_363

[09] Warrior
The update is live now for those that have this game on Steam. I'm currently messing around with the CaS parts and will play Hwang later.
 

Frayhua

[14] Master
When someone said that Hwang had a lot of Yun moves I got worried. However, almost everything of Yun’s he has they’ve shared at some point and the only thing somewhat iconic they used was 33_99A,B.

In short, this is reassuring.
Remember before SCVI came out before Siegfried was announced. People were worried because Nightmare had more of Siegfried's moves, Characters can share a few moves that are similar, but they can have different properties. Siegfried's 66B has an extension in Soul Charge. Nightmare's 22_88B is a Lethal Hit from behind & can go into NBS.
 

Crash X

[14] Master
She doesn't like it when people talk about her when she's not here, beware!
Well, the last time that happened she ended up returning and sticking around for a while anyways. If this happened again, I wouldn’t be surprised.

However, if this really is a final goodbye then it is a fatal blow here since she was a true defender of Yun-Seong and the Queen of Shitposting.

R.I.P. LisaK: Her Legend Will Never Die as The Soul Still Burns!