Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

[RyujiSakamoto]

SC7 is 3-5 years off. They may support this game for years to come if we are lucky and they see our loyalty

 

[artard4321]

It was made very clear right after the game was announced that it was a reboot. Then when the game came out there's some subtle changes, culminating with Zasalamel's secret final chapter confirming it at such. Finally, if there was ever any doubt before, we have Cassandra's chapter making it even more explicitly clear.

I think it's safe to say it was never meant to be a simple retelling.

No it was never clear that it was a reboot from the start. News sites and people threw the word "reboot" around since the game went back in time and created some kind of Mandela Effect. The source I just gave you clearly elaborated on the tagline: "History hides away more than one truth." and it was explicitly stated by the developers that it's a retelling. I'll take Bandai Namco's words over the Mandela Effect.

I AM, however, willing to agree that Cassandra's chapter is paving away a divergent timeline that would lead us away from SoulCalibur V (thank god).

 

[sytus]

SC7 is 3-5 years off. They may support this game for years to come if we are lucky and they see our loyalty

I can't remember if I mentioned this in this thread or somewhere else but what I said back then is that I think I would happy with SC6 ending with season 2. My reasoning is that we can move forward with fresh interesting stages, ditch RE, give all the characters new moves (or change moves), design all the characters with Soul Gauge moves like Yoshi and Geralt and properly introduce legacy characters like Hilde and Algol due to story plot elements.

 

[RyujiSakamoto]

I can't remember if I mentioned this in this thread or somewhere else but what I said back then is that I think I would happy with SC6 ending with season 2. My reasoning is that we can move forward with fresh interesting stages, ditch RE, give all the characters new moves (or change moves), design all the characters with Soul Gauge moves like Yoshi and Geralt and properly introduce legacy characters like Hilde and Algol due to story plot elements.

Well we all know they won't be having a sequel out soon, so they might as well profit from additional content for SC6 before fully shifting gears to SC7

 

[ElegantRaven]

It was made very clear right after the game was announced that it was a reboot. Then when the game came out there's some subtle changes, culminating with Zasalamel's secret final chapter confirming it at such. Finally, if there was ever any doubt before, we have Cassandra's chapter making it even more explicitly clear.

I think it's safe to say it was never meant to be a simple retelling.

Did they ever even have SCVII planned though? SCVI needed to succeed if they wanted a chance of that and they couldn't have known for sure that the game would end up as well as it did. If we consider this, the story content in SCVI could really be all they had planned. If this is true, all they had planned was a reboot, since not much in VI actually goes against any original timeline lore. Grøh and Azwel being the exception.

Obviously there are some seeds they planted which tell us they'd like to be able to tell some more story and release another numbered title, but I think it's up in the air as to which way the cards will go. I think some plot elements of SCV will be revisited, such as Raphael = Nightmare and Amy = Viola, but I can see the Alexandra storyline diverging.

 

[Project Bokuho]

Anyways...

 

[Nyte]

Did they ever even have SCVII planned though? SCVI needed to succeed if they wanted a chance of that and they couldn't have known for sure that the game would end up as well as it did. If we consider this, the story content in SCVI could really be all they had planned. If this is true, all they had planned was a reboot, since not much in VI actually goes against any original timeline lore. Grøh and Azwel being the exception.

Obviously there are some seeds they planted which tell us they'd like to be able to tell some more story and release another numbered title, but I think it's up in the air as to which way the cards will go. I think some plot elements of SCV will be revisited, such as Raphael = Nightmare and Amy = Viola, but I can see the Alexandra storyline diverging.

Okubo used the word "reboot" to describe the game. And the changes, though subtle, are still there. Finally, there's this:

They were clearly setting up hooks for a SCVII to follow up on. They may not have known for sure if it was happening then, but they still had to account the possibility. Soulcalibur VI is the Fire Emblem Awakening of the series, if you will.

 

[Starringrole]

Anyways...

Season 2 couldn't come soon enough... I hope they show something meaningful..
I doubt they will, but it'd be interesting if they chose to show or confirm the character identities at the very least.
I'm dying to see the new moves the characters will get, though I wonder if the DLC characters are included in that?

 

[sytus]

On reevaluation I have to agree with the opinion that something major is going to change with the plot. At this point in time I don't think Project Soul has planned that far enough ahead to know what it is but it does look like they have deliberately left the ground work. Even if what Zasalamel says is a red herring it's still entertaining to theorize in the meantime.

 

[DanteSC3]

Technically Cassandra just got blessings from three different Greek gods all at once, which I'm pretty sure was not the case in the previous timeline. That's a significant power up that should prove to be useful.

She called upon those gods, and they did aid her, but I still got the impression that they were channeled through the weapons, based on the conversation between Cassandra and Sophitia when they put the weapons back in the shrine. It feels like they're some kind of 16th century cell phone. I didn't get the impression that Cassandra will just "have" these powers, moving forward.

Also the only thing she really absolutely has to do to prevent the dark future is to make sure Tira gets her Ending B instead of Ending A during SC3 events, which should not be too hard to orchestrate

So in the new timeline we can get Tira Ω instead of Pyrrha Ω and this time we are not even gonna need a time jump 17 years into the future for it to happen.

True, but this ending is also predicated on Tira obtaining Soul Edge, which she doesn't really do. I know that either way, the outcome was essentially the same, that Tira snatches Pyrrha and raises her, but the ending B has Tira becoming the new host of Soul Edge, which wouldn't happen. Just mildly splitting hairs. But you're right, if Tira doesn't abduct Pyrrha, then it's possible this could resolve a few things. Sophitia and Pyrrha will still have cursed bodies, though. I don't think Tira Omega would work, personally, because she wants to serve the sword, not be the sword.

Considering closed time loops, just take a look at Pat's adventures in time in SC5 where he was able to successfully change the past exactly the way he wanted no problem. That's a pretty huge hint on how time travel works in SoulCalibur.

Also a good point, though if it were that easy, then I'm not sure why Cassandra seems to have struggled so much. She seriously looks to have done hundreds if not thousands of jumps to lose her way and her identity such as she has, it's like she's on her last threads of life. Maybe in the skilled hands of Edge Master, such manipulation is easy, but Cassandra just seems to have had a rough time of it. That, or it's her own stubbornness working against her, that she's tried and failed so many times. Then again, when Patroklos did it, it's like he jumped into his own body and did the actions himself, while with Cassandra, she's an arbiter that has to talk to herself or someone else... there's different machinations at work, on some level.

The reason why the changes have been minimal so far is because you don't fix what ain't broke. The mess in story doesn't come until later in the series, so the changes will be bigger more apparent as the series progresses. They'll change some things and keep others the same. Fans wouldn't be happy if almost everything was thrown out like in SCV.

This has some merit, too, which is why SoulCalibur VII will answer our questions. And I've said as much before, and I'll say it again, my claims that we're going back to SoulCalibur V does not mean that I believe they would repeat their same mistakes, because... why would they? That's dumb. We can both get back to SoulCalibur V and do it properly this time. There's room for inbetween, which is what I'm saying is most likely going to occur, either by avoiding the timeskip completely, or doing the "timeskip", but living through it, and explaining what happened to everyone, introducing the new people properly, and not ditching the "useless old women", as seems to be how they believe (and keep Korea and the Philippines in the loop too, of course!).

If we aren't going to do a retelling of the silver age then I'm more than happy to just have the golden age end with the story events of SC4 as it's pretty much the climax of the saga for all the characters. If SC7 covers the events of SC2, SC3 and SC4 then I don't know what SC8 could follow up on, Project Soul can't keep on recycling the struggles just to keep characters relevant, character arcs must end for all at some point.

The issue with this is that they've already foreshadowed SoulCalibur V events, with Raphael becoming Nightmare and Amy becoming Viola. So they're either going to weave those events into the upcoming story, or get back to SoulCalibur V eventually. One of those two things has to be true.

Yeah, I've already accepted this.

Which is fine by me.

I'm pretty confident in my current expectations about how things are going to progress from here, and my reasoning for those expectations -- and more importantly, I know you'll acknowledge I was right (if that's what happens) when the time comes. So I'm not overly worried about changing your mind.

And if nothing else, it guarantees one of us the opportunity to say "I told you so! Eat it!" (in a friendly manner) down the road.

And this is why talking with you (and indeed, Rusted Blade) in particular is pleasant, because we can see each others' points, discuss them in a rational manner, and at the end of the day, respect each others' differences. It will definitely be a fun day when we do have answers and can all laugh about it.

while we simply don't ever play as Natsu

Viola and Z.W.E.I.'s supernatural nature entails that we could get to play as them in the current time period without breaking the fiction (this is pretty much guaranteed already in the case of Amy/Viola).

We can still have the whole cast up through SCV (in terms of play style) even without incorporating the time skip.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Z.W.E.I. is still up in the air (though we all know I'm convinced he's Grøh), but it depends on how the next game plays out.

I believe they’re going to alter the original story and draw it out. Fill in holes and add details where necessary to flesh out the story and make it make at least a little bit more sense. If they’re smart they’re going to avoid revisiting the “silver age” by translating story beats to the cast we actually like. For example, rather than Pyrrha and Patroklos becoming hosts to the swords, I could see Sophitia and Cassandra taking up arms against each other. Tira and Raphael could play similar roles as they did in SCV and Amy can fully transform to Viola.

I’d imagine they’re going to touch the SCV era down the line or a route similar to that (as hinted in the Cass Soul Chronicle). But from there I suspect most of the original cast will be able to make it through the skip (ie the characters cut out such as Taki, Talim, Xianghua, Zasalamel, etc...), Sophie surviving, Cass not becoming trapped in Astral Chaos, a fresh take that fixes up what went wrong with Pyrrha and Pattycakes, Amy’s transformation into Viola combined with her amnesia shortly after, Kilik keeping his staff, and Azwel becoming the new mastermind behind the scenes. Granted, this does feel like a bit of a pill to swallow and a lot of thinking that they would do it like that. But hey, this is just pure speculation after all.

Absolutely this, this is what I'm getting at. Enrich the story that already exists with elements introduced in later games. In other words, keep doing what it is that SoulCalibur VI is already doing. That's my general impression and feeling. There's definitely room for several routes, where we can pursue the positive aspects of SoulCalibur II through SoulCalibur V, and pick up where SoulCalibur V left off, moving into the future. It's not that SoulCalibur V was a mistake, it's that it wasn't well executed. This retelling is giving it the chance it needs to succeed, which is all I think any of us actually want.

I can't remember if I mentioned this in this thread or somewhere else but what I said back then is that I think I would happy with SC6 ending with season 2. My reasoning is that we can move forward with fresh interesting stages, ditch RE, give all the characters new moves (or change moves), design all the characters with Soul Gauge moves like Yoshi and Geralt and properly introduce legacy characters like Hilde and Algol due to story plot elements.

This is very much my feeling on it too. I know people love Hilde, but would you really want Hilde's re-entry to be a half-hearted Soul Chronicle about her sitting on a throne and watching the action, or seeing her enter the battlefield herself to establish the honor of Wolfkrone?

Did they ever even have SCVII planned though? SCVI needed to succeed if they wanted a chance of that and they couldn't have known for sure that the game would end up as well as it did. If we consider this, the story content in SCVI could really be all they had planned. If this is true, all they had planned was a reboot, since not much in VI actually goes against any original timeline lore. Grøh and Azwel being the exception.

Obviously there are some seeds they planted which tell us they'd like to be able to tell some more story and release another numbered title, but I think it's up in the air as to which way the cards will go. I think some plot elements of SCV will be revisited, such as Raphael = Nightmare and Amy = Viola, but I can see the Alexandra storyline diverging.

I'm sure they had plans for a "what if?" scenario to make a sequel, or they wouldn't have dropped the Raphael -> Nightmare stuff into his Soul Chronicle. But even if they didn't, it was a super safe bet to bookend between SoulBlade and SoulCalibur II, as the "golden age" of the series, as it were. But it definitely left their options open for sequels, considering they have at least three games to pull content from for the next chapter. Their foreshadowing tells me they plan to continue this narrative in the next entry.

Okubo used the word "reboot" to describe the game.

Believe me, I'm going to get back to your posts, but I'm going to go ahead and point out Okubo's retraction statement that you conveniently ignore:

Interview Link - "For Soul Calibur VI, I don’t know if the term ‘reboot’ is the right term to use, but we are revisiting the narrative and retelling the story. Of course, we have the setting of the Astral Realm as well. In terms of characters and their design of which characters are participating in Soul Calibur VI, we tried not to be too bound by their specific era or setting as much as delivering a roster of the most fun characters we thought characters should experience."

And before you bring it up, the ending statement "we tried not to be too bound by their specific era or setting as much as delivering a roster of the most fun characters" seems to be referring to characters from SoulCalibur II and SoulCalibur III appearing, giving them their origin stories and events that take place in the timeline prior to the start of SoulCalibur II, so it's not bending any rules, it's just giving us context for the characters before they're introduced.

 

[Nyte]

Haha, you’re still bringing that up?

 

[DanteSC3]

Haha, you’re still bringing that up?

Yes, because it's as relevant today as it was back then. And only now is the Astral Realm part of the quote actually being realized. It was planned.

 

[artard4321]

Okubo used the word "reboot" to describe the game. And the changes, though subtle, are still there. Finally, there's this:

They were clearly setting up hooks for a SCVII to follow up on. They may not have known for sure if it was happening then, but they still had to account the possibility. Soulcalibur VI is the Fire Emblem Awakening of the series, if you will.

I totally agree that they are setting something up similar to Fire Emblem Awakening but it definitely doesn't mean that they had this set up for SoulCalibur VI. I see the Zasalamel ending as setting something up for SoulCalibur VII should the game succeed. What I'm basically saying is that this isn't a new timeline yet but it definitely is leading to one.

Also about Okubo using the word "reboot", he himself isn't sure if it's the right word to describe it. He described SoulCalibur VI as revisiting the narrative and retelling the story. (Source)

So yeah, SoulCalibur VI takes place in the original timeline, except that the some of the changes we are seeing are setting up for a new timeline. Note that Cassandra's battle with her future self is labeled as 0-α, 0-β, and 0-γ which are chapters I would say that never happened in the original timeline hence the different labels. This would lead us to a divergent timeline in SoulCalibur VII.

TLDR: SoulCalibur VI was not a reboot, but it is now.

 

[Crimzin]

SC7 is 3-5 years off. They may support this game for years to come if we are lucky and they see our loyalty

It's still a few years out, but it also depends on when the next console generation is out and what they have planned for that.

 

[Nyte]

Yes, because it's as relevant today as it was back then. And only now is the Astral Realm part of the quote actually being realized. It was planned.

Let me get something clear, him saying he wasn't sure if "reboot" was the right word didn't deconfirm it. He didn't outright say "SCVI isn't a reboot", but he did outright say it is. Not only do creators flip-flop at times, but also it takes a new meaning with Cassandra's chapter. The fact is that the OT stuff is still canon -- in their own timeline, which is part of a multiverse connected through Astral Chaos.

It's also very likely that this is where Zasalamel is receiving his visions. So in a sense, reboot may not be the right word if only because the original games are canon in the loosest way possible. But this is still very much a new timeline set to diverge.

 

[sytus]

Canadian locals are on for anyone who's interested.

multitwitch

multitwitch.tv

 

[Crash X]

It's still a few years out, but it also depends on when the next console generation is out and what they have planned for that.

If anything it’s probably going to be on the next generation set of consoles and PC.

 

[Nyte]

With any luck, given that there's no corporate drama and that SCVI proved the viability of the brand to Namco, the wait shouldn't be as long as seven years. I'm hoping for 2021 announcement with 2022 release.

 

[DanteSC3]

Are you still trying to argue this not being a reboot?

Yes, because it isn't, not by the classic definition of "reboot", where we take the bare basics and create an all new story out of it. We aren't doing that, not by a long shot. As I've mentioned before, the content of SoulCalibur VI is 98% original timeline content, 1% content changed due to mechanical reasons, and then 1% injection from the future through Cassandra and Zasalamel intervention. Perhaps these percentages are a bit skewed based on my own self-interests, so I'll requantify them as 95%, 2%, and 3%, accordingly.

dank meme

1st panel - false
2nd panel - true
3rd panel - potentially true
4th panel - overly silly and petty against me personally -- "get away from it" and "preventing it from happening" are two different ideals

To "get away from it", the reason was clear. They had written themselves into a corner, and made a lot of crucial design mistakes (cutting characters, not contextualizing new characters, not finishing the story, not implementing all of the changes to characters in the story, etc.), where the only real recourse to continue the story was to remake SoulCalibur V, striking it from the record, or roll back the clock and set things up right, so that SoulCalibur V can succeed where it should have instead of just going down as a failure.

If they were going for "preventing it from happening", then they would not have included the elements of Nightmare assuming the role of Graf Dumas and planting the seeds that he will become Nightmare again, and then they also would not have included Azwel as the origin point for why Amy will become Viola once more, and then they also would not have included Cassandra's Astral Chaos bit in her storyline. They're acknowledging that SoulCalibur V is still a reality, and it is being presented that the future still exists, unless someone or something intervenes. Someone or something (Cassandra and/or Zasalamel, potentially Azwel) may intervene, but their efforts reserve the right to succeed or fail, depending on other extenuating circumstances (Azwel).

After all this time, and after getting direct confirmation on multiple occasions, the fact that she's still trying to argue that this isn't a reboot and we're heading to SCV is completely and utterly ridiculous. Furthermore, I don't even get why she keeps arguing in favor of it. What was so great about SCV? Its legacy is that it almost killed the series, and you'll have to forgive me if I'm not buying the whole "people will accept SCV if they explain it better!" crap. They literally just rebuilt the good will between them and the general fanbase. The last thing they should do is break it again.

SoulCalibur V made some missteps, but it was not all wrong. If it was, then we wouldn't have elements of it in SoulCalibur VI. If it was a true reboot whose goal it was to erase SoulCalibur V from existence, then it would just pretend as if SoulCalibur V never existed. I believe the core issue here is that you hate SoulCalibur V with every fiber of your being, and you just assume that everyone else does as well, and find it bizarre that anyone would ever like any aspect of it. They understand their mistake, and will do their best not to repeat it, but at the same time, they have not thrown out SoulCalibur V completely, are still willing to use it, and indeed, will continue to use it in the future.

Most people accepted it was a reboot when Okubo said it was. Even more accepted it was a reboot when Zasalamel's secret chapter flipped the script. Everyone accepted it was a reboot when Cassandra met the original version of herself. Not her.

Reboot was the original statement, and then Okubo later rebuffed his own statement, that reboot is not the right word to use.

Zasalamel's final chapter flipped no script, however. It indicated he has a different course that argues with his own memories, that either something awoke from within, or he received a message from the future (the likely case), but his new goal (pushing humanity to new heights) compared to his old goal (ending his immortality) both require immense power in order to achieve, so it is still absolutely likely that he will seek to unite the swords, and potentially bring about Night Terror, which is an example of history repeating itself. Regardless of what he does, however, the release of energy will reawaken Algol, as Zasalamel has also foreshadowed, in Libra of Soul.

Cassandra's story confirms that Cassandra from the future was able to successfully make a physical jump into the past. This does not mean reboot either, and in fact, establishes that this timeline coincides with the original timeline. We have yet to establish what model of time travel that this universe has. The implication that I've gotten so far is that there is only one timeline, not a multiverse. Patroklos going back in time undid his mistake. It didn't create an alternate universe where there is a mistake made and one where it is not. Cassandra going back in time to warn herself about the future is a less direct method of doing what Patroklos did, and begs the question perhaps why she didn't just choose the point in time which could have resolved the problem, though it's possible that she doesn't know, or wasn't able, not having the same level of control that Edge Master did over the realm. The second possibility is what I believe, that she's tried and failed so many times, that's why she's worn out and depleted. The implication is that this time may be successful, or it could be the last chance, if Astral Chaos Cassandra ran out of steam.

The heavy implication is that SCV is a future that needs to be prevented, ie one described as "dark and cruel". I doubt they're ever jumping 17 years again. Just a hunch. Maybe some elements will get rebooted in the NT, but not the whole.

I don't think they'll jump 17 years either. The timeskip was one of the mistakes that they're aware of. They'll either step us through the timeline like they did with Soul Chronicle, from 1590 through 1607, which would be a cool way to handle it, or they'll reintroduce the events of SoulCalibur V into the events of SoulCalibur II, SoulCalibur III, and SoulCalibur IV. Those really seem to be the two options at play.

It's really annoying, tiresome to see all the time, and gets on my nerves the way she presents it as fact. She also ruined my topic on the story thread right off the bat and refused to ever let it go, which is why I'm angry about it.

I present nothing as fact, only listed my feelings, my views, my interpretations of what we have been given. If you read it that way, then that's your own personal issues. I didn't "ruin" your topic, either, I simply presented my viewpoint as it related to your topic. I purposely avoided your "STONE is not Rock" topic, because I didn't want to be accused of "ruining" that either, figured it wouldn't be worth the trouble of arguing with you, as it is a frustrating venture, to say the least. I've got a few chuckles out of that topic, though, watching you prove yourself by doing to other people what you'd have done to me if they don't agree with your perfect world.

I'll be more mad if they waste a DLC spot on Rock.

I'm thoroughly convinced that if the last spot in season 2 isn't a new character, then it's Aeon or Rock. Aeon seems more likely, because he had some work done on him already as seen in the base game in the Lesser Lizardman style, but his story will likely also feature his conflict with Rock, which could be teasing the idea that Rock will come in season 3, should we get one. But by the color theory, Rock makes more sense than Aeon. We'll see.

That, and the sheer idea that they'll return to SCV and break all the established good will by going back to the game that nearly killed the series also makes me mad. If SCV was worth sticking to, they wouldn't have rebooted just to get away from it.

I've already addressed this above, they're fixing their mistake in a very wide workaround, but not abandoning SoulCalibur V altogether.

I think it's safe to say it was never meant to be a simple retelling.

That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. But I, and everyone else, am also welcome to mine, and theirs.

If I can agree with your opinion, it's not a "simple" retelling, but it is a retelling nonetheless. It's been a very faithful retelling, keeping nearly everything intact, and it definitely shows tons of heart that they did the research to get a lot of the little nitty-gritty things right. They've reshaped the story into a single purpose narrative instead of plaguing it with what-if stories and are making it more clear, which is a great thing. We'll keep moving forward through time, experiencing the same events as before, but with greater detail, with one central narrative still, in SoulCalibur VII, should they keep this design philosophy intact. It is a "complex" retelling, in that they are giving us very nearly the same story, but with everyone involved in its outcome as a unity effort, instead of it just being a few important people per game and everyone else is just doing whatever.

The tipping/diverging point will be whether or not the SoulCalibur V events take place in 1607 or 1590-1591 (or a couple years after if they have it where SoulCalibur II, SoulCalibur III, and SoulCalibur IV take more than a year to accomplish, which seems far more reasonable. It's not a question of whether or not the events will take place, since they have already foreshadowed them. Unless there is some serious intervention, the courses are already set that Raphael will become Nightmare and that Amy will become Viola, so the events will occur, but they could occur sooner, or they could occur when they did originally. That's where we are at currently, as far as I see it.

Let me get something clear, him saying he wasn't sure if "reboot" was the right word didn't deconfirm it. He didn't outright say "SCVI isn't a reboot", but he did outright say it is.

[citation needed]

The fact is that the OT stuff is still canon -- in their own timeline, which is part of a multiverse connected through Astral Chaos.

The fact is that they have not established whether or not there are multiple timelines yet. There could be a multiverse, it's possible, but it isn't confirmed.

On reevaluation I have to agree with the opinion that something major is going to change with the plot. At this point in time I don't think Project Soul has planned that far enough ahead to know what it is but it does look like they have deliberately left the ground work. Even if what Zasalamel says is a red herring it's still entertaining to theorize in the meantime.

Even though you're not on my side, I appreciate the fact that you were able to look through the presented data and come to your own conclusion, in a civil and reasonable way. Thank you.

So yeah, SoulCalibur VI takes place in the original timeline, except that the some of the changes we are seeing are setting up for a new timeline. Note that Cassandra's battle with her future self is labeled as 0-α, 0-β, and 0-γ which are chapters I would say that never happened in the original timeline hence the different labels. This would lead us to a divergent timeline in SoulCalibur VII.

That's one interpretation. It was definitely a (not unexpected because they spoiled it with the trailer) "gotcha" moment, in that her story was just playing out normally, and then the epilogue that takes place before it (but simultaneously) unlocks afterward, to make you think about it. They were all 0, because it started with 1, so it couldn't be 0, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3... that would be goofy, so they did Greek lettering instead. I don't believe this has anything to do with timeline speak. Until they show me a multiverse, I don't see a multiverse. I only see the one timeline, with attempts being made to alter it.

 

[Nyte]

Yes, because it isn't, not by the classic definition of "reboot", where we take the bare basics and create an all new story out of it. We aren't doing that, not by a long shot. As I've mentioned before, the content of SoulCalibur VI is 98% original timeline content, 1% content changed due to mechanical reasons, and then 1% injection from the future through Cassandra and Zasalamel intervention. Perhaps these percentages are a bit skewed based on my own self-interests, so I'll requantify them as 95%, 2%, and 3%, accordingly.


1st panel - false
2nd panel - true
3rd panel - potentially true
4th panel - overly silly and petty against me personally -- "get away from it" and "preventing it from happening" are two different ideals

To "get away from it", the reason was clear. They had written themselves into a corner, and made a lot of crucial design mistakes (cutting characters, not contextualizing new characters, not finishing the story, not implementing all of the changes to characters in the story, etc.), where the only real recourse to continue the story was to remake SoulCalibur V, striking it from the record, or roll back the clock and set things up right, so that SoulCalibur V can succeed where it should have instead of just going down as a failure.

If they were going for "preventing it from happening", then they would not have included the elements of Nightmare assuming the role of Graf Dumas and planting the seeds that he will become Nightmare again, and then they also would not have included Azwel as the origin point for why Amy will become Viola once more, and then they also would not have included Cassandra's Astral Chaos bit in her storyline. They're acknowledging that SoulCalibur V is still a reality, and it is being presented that the future still exists, unless someone or something intervenes. Someone or something (Cassandra and/or Zasalamel, potentially Azwel) may intervene, but their efforts reserve the right to succeed or fail, depending on other extenuating circumstances (Azwel).


SoulCalibur V made some missteps, but it was not all wrong. If it was, then we wouldn't have elements of it in SoulCalibur VI. If it was a true reboot whose goal it was to erase SoulCalibur V from existence, then it would just pretend as if SoulCalibur V never existed. I believe the core issue here is that you hate SoulCalibur V with every fiber of your being, and you just assume that everyone else does as well, and find it bizarre that anyone would ever like any aspect of it. They understand their mistake, and will do their best not to repeat it, but at the same time, they have not thrown out SoulCalibur V completely, are still willing to use it, and indeed, will continue to use it in the future.


Reboot was the original statement, and then Okubo later rebuffed his own statement, that reboot is not the right word to use.

Zasalamel's final chapter flipped no script, however. It indicated he has a different course that argues with his own memories, that either something awoke from within, or he received a message from the future (the likely case), but his new goal (pushing humanity to new heights) compared to his old goal (ending his immortality) both require immense power in order to achieve, so it is still absolutely likely that he will seek to unite the swords, and potentially bring about Night Terror, which is an example of history repeating itself. Regardless of what he does, however, the release of energy will reawaken Algol, as Zasalamel has also foreshadowed, in Libra of Soul.

Cassandra's story confirms that Cassandra from the future was able to successfully make a physical jump into the past. This does not mean reboot either, and in fact, establishes that this timeline coincides with the original timeline. We have yet to establish what model of time travel that this universe has. The implication that I've gotten so far is that there is only one timeline, not a multiverse. Patroklos going back in time undid his mistake. It didn't create an alternate universe where there is a mistake made and one where it is not. Cassandra going back in time to warn herself about the future is a less direct method of doing what Patroklos did, and begs the question perhaps why she didn't just choose the point in time which could have resolved the problem, though it's possible that she doesn't know, or wasn't able, not having the same level of control that Edge Master did over the realm. The second possibility is what I believe, that she's tried and failed so many times, that's why she's worn out and depleted. The implication is that this time may be successful, or it could be the last chance, if Astral Chaos Cassandra ran out of steam.


I don't think they'll jump 17 years either. The timeskip was one of the mistakes that they're aware of. They'll either step us through the timeline like they did with Soul Chronicle, from 1590 through 1607, which would be a cool way to handle it, or they'll reintroduce the events of SoulCalibur V into the events of SoulCalibur II, SoulCalibur III, and SoulCalibur IV. Those really seem to be the two options at play.


I present nothing as fact, only listed my feelings, my views, my interpretations of what we have been given. If you read it that way, then that's your own personal issues. I didn't "ruin" your topic, either, I simply presented my viewpoint as it related to your topic. I purposely avoided your "STONE is not Rock" topic, because I didn't want to be accused of "ruining" that either, figured it wouldn't be worth the trouble of arguing with you, as it is a frustrating venture, to say the least. I've got a few chuckles out of that topic, though, watching you prove yourself by doing to other people what you'd have done to me if they don't agree with your perfect world.


I'm thoroughly convinced that if the last spot in season 2 isn't a new character, then it's Aeon or Rock. Aeon seems more likely, because he had some work done on him already as seen in the base game in the Lesser Lizardman style, but his story will likely also feature his conflict with Rock, which could be teasing the idea that Rock will come in season 3, should we get one. But by the color theory, Rock makes more sense than Aeon. We'll see.


I've already addressed this above, they're fixing their mistake in a very wide workaround, but not abandoning SoulCalibur V altogether.


That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. But I, and everyone else, am also welcome to mine, and theirs.

If I can agree with your opinion, it's not a "simple" retelling, but it is a retelling nonetheless. It's been a very faithful retelling, keeping nearly everything intact, and it definitely shows tons of heart that they did the research to get a lot of the little nitty-gritty things right. They've reshaped the story into a single purpose narrative instead of plaguing it with what-if stories and are making it more clear, which is a great thing. We'll keep moving forward through time, experiencing the same events as before, but with greater detail, with one central narrative still, in SoulCalibur VII, should they keep this design philosophy intact. It is a "complex" retelling, in that they are giving us very nearly the same story, but with everyone involved in its outcome as a unity effort, instead of it just being a few important people per game and everyone else is just doing whatever.

The tipping/diverging point will be whether or not the SoulCalibur V events take place in 1607 or 1590-1591 (or a couple years after if they have it where SoulCalibur II, SoulCalibur III, and SoulCalibur IV take more than a year to accomplish, which seems far more reasonable. It's not a question of whether or not the events will take place, since they have already foreshadowed them. Unless there is some serious intervention, the courses are already set that Raphael will become Nightmare and that Amy will become Viola, so the events will occur, but they could occur sooner, or they could occur when they did originally. That's where we are at currently, as far as I see it.


[citation needed]


The fact is that they have not established whether or not there are multiple timelines yet. There could be a multiverse, it's possible, but it isn't confirmed.


Even though you're not on my side, I appreciate the fact that you were able to look through the presented data and come to your own conclusion, in a civil and reasonable way. Thank you.


That's one interpretation. It was definitely a (not unexpected because they spoiled it with the trailer) "gotcha" moment, in that her story was just playing out normally, and then the epilogue that takes place before it (but simultaneously) unlocks afterward, to make you think about it. They were all 0, because it started with 1, so it couldn't be 0, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3... that would be goofy, so they did Greek lettering instead. I don't believe this has anything to do with timeline speak. Until they show me a multiverse, I don't see a multiverse. I only see the one timeline, with attempts being made to alter it.

Notice how everyone who defends you still doesn't say you're right. They just say you have a right to your opinion, even if it's not the right one. There comes a point where you just have to give up and accept it. SCVI is a reboot, it's been called a reboot by Okubo, it changes storytelling elements, and of course you have the timelime being diverged. The fact that it's a different timeline plays into the narrative itself.

You refuse to accept that. You still want to go back to SCV, for some godforsaken reason. I for one am happy that I can look forward to more Soulcalibur and that the series is one the right track. It doesn't matter how much you spin "oh, the SCV era wasn't bad, it was just the execution that was horrible!" because it doesn't change the fact that it still sucked. It doesn't change the fact that it drove away fans and nearly convinced Namco the series wasn't worth investing in.

Do I want a future where Patroklos is the main character and we have Natsu instead of Taki? Hell no!

That's why I'm against it. I'd rather the series prosper instead of retreading that era. Besides, don't you realize that the SCV era was the product of one guy (no longer on the team) making his personal vision a reality at everyone else's expense? The moment he left, the moment Daishi was no longer on the team, they dropped all of the direction he wanted to take the series in. Telling, isn't it?

I don't know how much more it'll take to convince you, because everyone else stopped fighting this a long time ago.