Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

Even then, you would still have better luck winning a tourney with, Siegfried or Soph instead of, say, with someone like Groh, Astaroth or whatever joke character happens to be in the game.
And even then, most players at this point prefer to play the characters they like instead of just the ones that could whore around in an entire tournament. Yuttoto, linkorz, and Clob could have dropped Voldo, Groh, and Astaroth at any time respectively, but no they’re still sticking with them as mains/subs despite each of these characters issues. And quite frankly, there really isn’t a joke character in SC6 since Dampierre isn’t even playable.
 
My biggest issue with SC5 is the decision to strip down character movesets. SC6 pretty much fixed that and removed the bloated mess that it was in SC4 by unifying the moveset across characters (though Haohmaru seems to be deviating from that philosophy with his 3K being a special low). Characters being so limited with their options in SC5 forces you to play a particular way. Some people like that but for me, characters become stale to play after a short while and feel like they're incomplete characters. Some of that incompleteness has transferred over to SC6 (Taki for example compared to SC2/SC3), but hopefully with updates that point will be moot.

More thought has gone into characters to make them viable compared to SCIV. Some characters can sometimes be toned down in a new installment or season of a game.
 
A fighting game is supposed to be fun and balanced at every skill level simultaneously and GIs are simply not viable at low skill levels and sometimes even beyond. You can't expect noobs to casually pull off precise timings like that. Also, like it or not, casual gamers are the majority of players at pretty much any game. The result is that at low skill levels without RE and with GIs being non-viable you lose most of the reasons to ever use break attacks which also leads to guard gauge mechanics becoming obsolete 90% of the time, at which point a major chunk of important game mechanics becomes a dead weight most people never use, which is a terrible design. RE being a poor man's GI negates the problem completely, opening break attack and guard gauge metagame to everyone.
TL;DR: think of the scrubs, they are 90% of your player base.
The problem is that whenever i play against "scrubs" they only use RE, meaning that a very much larger chunk of the mechanics now are a dead weight. I can tell you right now, even though SC is by far my favourite of the fighting games, if the next entry in the series has anything like RE I'll most likely stay away from it.
You bring up a good point about the necessity of catering to those new to the game, but I feel SCVI has failed to be accessible to new players. I very much reject the notion that RE is a good mechanic for beginners, but the main problem with SCVI is that they have gone too wild with gimmicks. Apart from RE, meters and soul charge almost every character additionally has something special you need to be aware of both when playing with and against, and every character has an optimal play almost to the exclusion of other tactics. At first I was on board with their efforts to really differentiate the cast, but thinking about it I'm starting to feel they're taking it too far.
I learned the mechanics of SC with SCIV (I had played some SCII earlier, but without learning anything) and I had no problem learning enough to have fun just by building up knowledge from online matches. Although in need of balancing the cast there's no question in my mind that SCIV had the best mechanics overall in the series, where the gimmicks and advanced tactics were not as defeating as they are now, making it very possible to learn the game as a new player.
 
@lightcycle I agree with everything you just said except SoulCalibur IV being the best mechanically. Its sluggishness is among its worst flaws, along with Critical Finish being... rather bad, Critical Edge - SoulCalibur V Edition was far better than either SoulCalibur IV or SoulCalibur VI, if we must have such a mechanic. SoulCalibur I-II are still the best, I think, reveling in their simplicity. I would include SoulCalibur III with them if it wasn’t such an imbalanced and broken mess, but Arcade Edition seems to have fixed the issues. SoulCalibur IV is where things started going wrong, mechanically, if anything.
 
The problem is that whenever i play against "scrubs" they only use RE, meaning that a very much larger chunk of the mechanics now are a dead weight.
People who mindlessly only use RE are the easiest wins ever. Punish them until they learn or quit. Problem solved.
Frankly, people who mindlessly only use one trick always exist in fighting games, if not for RE they would have mindlessly spammed one cheap move non-stop like Voldo's Mantis Crawl run or something similar.
 
People who mindlessly only use RE are the easiest wins ever. Punish them until they learn or quit. Problem solved.
Frankly, people who mindlessly only use one trick always exist in fighting games, if not for RE they would have mindlessly spammed one cheap move non-stop like Voldo's Mantis Crawl run or something similar.
It’s far more annoying to be pushed into using Break Attack than it would be defeating a much simpler move. Reversal Edge spam breaks flow a lot worse than mashing a single poke over and over. It adds more problems than it solves.
 
It’s far more annoying to be pushed into using Break Attack than it would be defeating a much simpler move.
No need to necessarily use Break Attacks raw, just sidestep and punish with whatever you want. Of which a Break Attack is still a great solution, but not the only one.
Reversal Edge spam breaks flow a lot worse than mashing a single poke over and over. It adds more problems than it solves.
Noobs can be killed by a single poke repeated forever if they don't know how to respond. It's very frustrating to be on that end, also RE solves the problem Kappa.
 
It’s far more annoying to be pushed into using Break Attack than it would be defeating a much simpler move. Reversal Edge spam breaks flow a lot worse than mashing a single poke over and over. It adds more problems than it solves.
You hit the nail on the head here. While I have been annoyed by lag-assisted spamming of one cheap move many times in the past, it has never come even remotely close to the annoyance of having the flow of a match completely interrupted by RE usage.
Regarding SCIV I actually liked the sluggishness combined with what I felt was a real easiness in getting back to neutral that was entirely lost in SCV, and to a smaller extent still is missing in SCVI. I might be imagining things, but I feel there I get stunned more, and maybe if I wasn't I'd enjoy the higher tempo more.
 
People who mindlessly only use RE are the easiest wins ever. Punish them until they learn or quit. Problem solved.
Frankly, people who mindlessly only use one trick always exist in fighting games, if not for RE they would have mindlessly spammed one cheap move non-stop like Voldo's Mantis Crawl run or something similar.
But I don't want easy wins. I want a challenging and fun match, and while there are other stuff that could get in the way of this RE is something that's immediately disqualified here. I really don't have the patience to BA someone out of their RE habits until they learn, I just won't play them again.
 
I don't know what to say. On one hand the gimmicks might be too much for noobs, but on the other hand the characters all feel so powerful now in SCVI that I've yet to see in the series. Lethal Hits are visually and mechanically satisfying to pull off, and seeing formerly awful characters like Seong Mi-Na become literally resurrected as a force to be reckoned with is very satisfying!

I really cannot wait to see the potential tweaks they do to Hwang, Setsuka, Yun-Seong and fingers crossed for Rock and Aeon/Liz.

To see the day that Rock of all characters could be powerful? It is such a tantalizing possibility!

Edit: Since I grew up with the games before the HD era I do admit missing the brilliant simplicity of SC1 and SC2...but for what SCVI is trying to do I think its getting there!
 
I mean re can be fixed really easily. It's already fine as is as you can block it, and I doubt spammers have the ability to punish the small moment of openness. Or you can literally just sidestep and hit em with a throw. I'd be willing to bet they can't throw break consistently. Unless you are in a good situation, it never feels easy to actually land re.
 
I mean re can be fixed really easily. It's already fine as is as you can block it, and I doubt spammers have the ability to punish the small moment of openness. Or you can literally just sidestep and hit em with a throw. I'd be willing to bet they can't throw break consistently. Unless you are in a good situation, it never feels easy to actually land re.
I just love how far Reversal Edge has been nerfed since the beginning. But the degree it has been toned down to can be argued that it’s basically pointless now and wouldn’t really be missed if they just took it out completely for SoulCalibur VII. They haven’t really nerfed much of anything in SoulCalibur VI, as their approach seems to be make the weaker ones stronger instead of making the stronger ones weaker, with a few exceptions where things where truly out of hand, but Reversal Edge has only gotten worse with each adjustment. I really feel like they don’t want to admit it was a mistake, but deep down they know that it was. It looked really cool in the original trailer, it just... isn’t fun nor does it flow well in practice.
 
I would include SoulCalibur III with them if it wasn’t such an imbalanced and broken mess, but Arcade Edition seems to have fixed the issues.

SC3 console was trash. VC hell.

AE was perfect. Even if the Top Tier were Mitsurugi, Setsuka, Yoshimitsu and Astaroth, the balance was pretty good among the tiers. Rock was the only one that could be considered unplayable there but he was still improved compared to console. The OG mechanics were perfect and the speed was very good as well.

SC6 is awesome because it brought the big movelists back that SC5 (and SC4 somewhat) took away along with the speed of the original games. RE at Vanilla and Season 1 was a disaster but RE is now an acceptable mechanic as it is implemented now.

Namco has done a very good job balancing this game so far.
 
I just love how far Reversal Edge has been nerfed since the beginning. But the degree it has been toned down to can be argued that it’s basically pointless now and wouldn’t really be missed if they just took it out completely for SoulCalibur VII. They haven’t really nerfed much of anything in SoulCalibur VI, as their approach seems to be make the weaker ones stronger instead of making the stronger ones weaker, with a few exceptions where things where truly out of hand, but Reversal Edge has only gotten worse with each adjustment. I really feel like they don’t want to admit it was a mistake, but deep down they know that it was. It looked really cool in the original trailer, it just... isn’t fun nor does it flow well in practice.

What would you prefer as an alternative to build meter besides RE?

Edit: I also noticed you rank SCVI significantly below SCV, what could they do to elevate SCVI above it for you?
 
People who mindlessly only use RE are the easiest wins ever. Punish them until they learn or quit. Problem solved.
Frankly, people who mindlessly only use one trick always exist in fighting games, if not for RE they would have mindlessly spammed one cheap move non-stop like Voldo's Mantis Crawl run or something similar.
Well RE isn’t all THAT useful against Voldo’s Mantis anymore with the changes to the former in Season 2. Since the clash doesn’t initiate on block anymore, his safer moves from Mantis on RE get off mostly scot free minus the tiny chip damage and opponent on a few plus frames. Only a select few moves are completely vulnerable to the RE from the stance. Mantis Crawl Feet Towards/Head Towards A, Mantis Feet Towards B, Mantis B+K (Soul Charge version cannot be RE’d) and both versions of Mantis 66 (the mad dash). Sidestep into a whiff punish, Soul Charge, crouch grabs, and i10’s-i12’s are the best way to stuff out the stance. And before anyone asks, no the Mantis A isn’t that great of a step killer. Nowadays, the stance is mostly used for Voldo’s combo and vortex/oki ability.
 
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