Super High-Level In Your Face TIERLIST!!!

I know I'm late 2 da partay but, seriously, I can't find any tierlist (das not a wurd lol) thread that I can post in and I never got to share my opinion. If possible, I want this to be a discussion because I want to talk about everyone's perspective and actually like to hear this stuff (so, if we can, no close, please). I mean, I know people get angry for whatever reason but that's just another spice of life, right?

I'd like it if, rather than posting you guyseses own that you criticize mine. Now, I understand that might not always be the case but I'd at least like for the topic to start off that way so that I can give a chance to give some reasoning. But, please, be direct in your criticism and questioning; it's much harder to answer the question, "Why is *X* here?" as opposed to answering, "Why is *X* here and not here?" or "Why is *X" here instead of *Y*?"

Well, without further delay, my own personal tierlist! =o

A:

Cervantes
Alpha Patroklos
Mitsurugi
Algol
Tira
Viola

A-: Pyrrha

B+: Patroklos
Natsu
Yoshimitsu

B: Nightmare
Siegfried
Pyrrha Omega
Hilde
Voldo
Ezio
Xiba
Astaroth
Ivy
Aeon
Maxi
Z.W.E.I.

C: Raphael
Leixia

D: Dampierre

I also want to make a spreadsheet to see how much what I think matches up with what I think (know what I mean)? So, if someone can help me understand...how to actually make a spreadsheet, it'd be much appreciated!

 

Wait, i didnt get the impression the placement of the chars in one tier were meant to be ranked but you give them numerical values. You should only go for an average S, A, B, C aso.

Nobody specified that the tiers were in no particular order, so I based it off of that. It's definitely easier to rank the top tiers though compared to the mids, where 5:5s are in abundance and it makes it really hard to place them in order.

Anyways:

S tier: Cervantes, α Patroklos, Patroklos, Viola, Mitsurugi
A tier: Pyrrha Ω, Tira, Pyrrha, Natsu, Astaroth
B tier: Yoshimitsu, Ivy, Algol, Siegfried, Hilde, Aeon, Ezio, Xiba, Nightmare, Maxi, Leixia, Raphael
C tier: Dampierre
Z tier: ZWEI

S tier goes approximately in this order based on utility and risk. In SCV, strong utility with few downsides is a straight shot to top tier. A tier is subject to some change based on certain factors (these characters usually excel in certain matchups but can get hurt bad in others). B tier has a lot of tough to place characters, especially depending on who you talk to about characters like Yoshimitsu, Hilde, and Nightmare. Dampierre is in C alone while Leixia and Raphael are in B because I feel he lacks the utility of the other characters. He really is a glass cannon based on randomness, capable of bursts of amazing but also failing horribly.

Please feel free to question any placements you think are erroneous, as I'm always eager to refine my knowledge of the game and taking many opinions into account is a good way to do this.

 

Nobody specified that the tiers were in no particular order, so I based it off of that. It's definitely easier to rank the top tiers though compared to the mids, where 5:5s are in abundance and it makes it really hard to place them in order.

If the tier lists were indeed ranked then i would definitely suggest to not do it that way, because as you mentioned this is way too particular to say a char like NM is the 17th best, for example. This would never be correct. We should just stick to like 4 or 5 tiers.

 

If the tier lists were indeed ranked then i would definitely suggest to not do it that way, because as you mentioned this is way too particular to say a char like NM is the 17th best, for example. This would never be correct. We should just stick to like 4 or 5 tiers.

Different characters excel at different things, so I agree. So far the metagame is definitely leaning towards well-rounded characters with few exploitable disadvantages and many minor advantages compared to characters that are extremely strong in one category and extremely weak in another.

If I were to make the argument that the S tier characters I listed are the top 5 in SCV, it would be a strongly defensible position. However, if I were to assert that Xiba is definitely better than Maxi, it'd be much harder for me to actually provide empirical support for. The in-tier order rankings I made are part experience, part truthiness, and personally I think they're quite subjective.

tl;dr S/A/B/C tiers are pretty objective but the relationships between characters in each tier vary from person to person

 

Super Death Kill Tier: Maxi
Not-Super Death Kill Tier: not maxi

 

Different characters excel at different things, so I agree. So far the metagame is definitely leaning towards well-rounded characters with few exploitable disadvantages and many minor advantages compared to characters that are extremely strong in one category and extremely weak in another.

Where would that leave Viola then? A character who has extremely powerful aspects and yet is also severely disadvantaged in others, is she the exception to this? I think the case to be made for her is that she excels so greatly in those categories that it balances out her weaknesses, allowing her a place at the top.

Like you said though this is partly subjective. There are people who think she's the absolute best, and others who believe that her weaknesses prevent her from being so.

 

I think the case to be made for her is that she excels so greatly in those categories that it balances out her weaknesses, allowing her a place at the top.

Pretty much nailed it. Fighting Mitsurugi is like getting hit by a car going at 25 miles per hour while fighting Viola is like getting hit by a car going at 50 miles per hour but with a 50/50 chance of it missing. Both cars are capable of fucking you up either way so I'd rather take that chance at survival.

 

SS:Viola, a Pat, Cervy, Mits
S: Pyrrha, Omega, Algol, Pat, Asta
A: Natsu, Night, Tira
B: Sieg, Leixia, Aeon, Hilde, Yoshi, Xiba
C: Maxi, Ezio, ZWEI, Raph
D: Damp

Thats about how I see it right now. Could change.

 

I'm in class but I saw someone asked a question about Raph. I want to note that I think Leixia and Raph have amazing tools; the only reason they're so low is because their damage output is so low (or their big damage too situational) compared to everyone else.

 

I think that Slade made the best tier list, I agree with almost every character in that list, except for Zwei, but I assume that was a joke.

 

SS: Alpha, Cervantes, Viola, Mitsu
S: Algol, Astaroth, Omega, Patroklos
A: Pyrrha, Natsu, Tira
B: Voldo, Ivy, Nightmare, Yoshi, Xiba, Siegfried
C: Maxi, ZWEI, Hilde, Aeon, Leixia
D: Raphael

I'm not entirely sure about everything and I don't know where to put Dampierre and Ezio.

The tops are tops mainly because of their damage and how easy they get it.
The lows are lows mainly because the lack of damage in normal situations and the lack of "spammable" very good risk/reward moves (not having them is actually something good, the problem is that many others do have such moves). They just lack damage for no reason, e.g. Leixia being safe doesn't balance it out, Raphael having range doesn't balance it out, etc.... Because there are characters in that game who have range, damage and are safe. =/
And to me Raphael is the worst character in the game.

 

any list that doesnt put zwei on the bottom im fine with

 

Cervantes is just an overpowerd char you can play in an almost "noobish" way and still get away with it.

Algol is stil a bitch.

Mitus is not! top.

Maxi is weak... Only the stupid comeback-system "saves" him... Thanks Namco.

 

this is gonna be fun...Jag how come Mitsu is not top? enlighten us!

 

I'm in class but I saw someone asked a question about Raph. I want to note that I think Leixia and Raph have amazing tools; the only reason they're so low is because their damage output is so low (or their big damage too situational) compared to everyone else.

Seems to be the case.

Raph seems very pokey, 20-40 damage at a time. initial testing had the other guy really screwing up, and me not having a response other than... 20-40 damage. He doesn't have something dependably hard-hitting at around i18 or anything, I think... The opponent can play the "odds game" and hit you once for 100 damage or something and even out all of your work.

But, BB and 6BB are still incredible whiff punishers and spacing tools (seems CH confirmation with BBB and 6BBB can be some good damage). I still need to play against humans with him.

Maybe his best tactic is spamming 66A+G. Who knows...

 

this is gonna be fun...Jag how come Mitsu is not top? enlighten us!

If you compare Mitsu to Alpha, Cervantes and Viola...How can he be in the same league? You risk more with him and he really needs his meter-stuff to be a threat(2kB BE).

 

Spamming throws works wonder with Raph, cause they do actual damage and track. That's why people that have Raph MU experience twitch duck a lot against him and it becomes quickly annoying since you don't have any launchers.

But this can be used at your advantage, cause getting a few 663K$ in racks the rounds real quick. Among other tactics.

 

If you compare Mitsu to Alpha, Cervantes and Viola...How can he be in the same league? You risk more with him and he really needs his meter-stuff to be a threat(2kB BE).

No...just no -.-

How can you even compare high execution characters with the most simple and rewarding character in the game? Alpha is better than Mitsu I agree, but only if you are some kind of robot and never miss his JF, meanwhile Mitsu can easly defeat any character, he is way too safe, verticals that tracks (just look at 4B for Chirst sake!), stupid damage (yeah almost everyone makes tons of damage but Mitsu is the king of stupid high damage from simple safe starters) he needs meter, true that, but he gains a lot of meter from...again...safe moves. Ask ANYONE! here why EVERYONE! put Mitsu on top, they will come up with similar answers. Question for you, name a character with better mix up game?

 

But this can be used at your advantage, cause getting a few 663K$ in racks the rounds real quick. Among other tactics.

Now that I think about it, his CE does the same damage.

Thank you for putting it into perspective for me.

How can you even compare high execution characters with the most simple and rewarding character in the game?

Execution isn't supposed to be a factor in tier lists...

I always thought that, too. You see tier lists pop up all the time in every game, but never ease-of-use lists. But it always seems that when people dish out the aaaargh it's for characters that are easy to use.

Like Lars, or Amy...

 

Execution isn't supposed to be a factor in tier lists...

I always thought that, too. You see tier lists pop up all the time in every game, but never ease-of-use lists. But it always seems that when people dish out the aaaargh it's for characters that are easy to use.

Like Lars, or Amy...

I get your point and agree, but even excluding the execution would you put Mitsu lower than the top?

 

I'm not going to make my own tier list here because all it would serve to do is showcase my hilarious inexperience with some characters/matchups (although rest assured, I do have some differing opinions than others about where some characters lie), but I do have a few questions for the people who are qualified to make their own tier lists (not directed at any one player, but I would love to hear anyone's opinions):

-- I agree with the idea of a very large "B" tier as in LP's/Ring's/many people's tier lists here, although I wonder how much of a difference there is between bottom of A tier and top of B. As we've seen before, many of the characters in B tier can make some noise in the scene. I think the real difference is between the matchups, because by the looks of it the top characters are the ones who simply have less bad matchups.

-- I'm curious about the positions of the Pyrrha's in relation to each other, particularly Omega. It seems like the consensus is that regular Pyrrha is better, although some of your lists differ here. I'd like to hear some opinions on this, especially because my knowledge of OPyrrha isn't great.

-- It also seems that the "top" tier is very decided upon, with Cervantes, APat, Viola and Mitsu appearing up there, in some order. For those of you who differentiate these four from the rest of S tier, what is the most important factor that warrants creating a separate tier (for example, Kalas/Senzait split the top tier into SS and S), and what is the power difference between the two tiers that warrants a separation?

If I think of some more questions I'll edit the post, methinks. Thanks for letting me pick your brains :)