Taki Match-Up Chart

Dreamkiller

Dreamkiller

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I've been thinking about doing this for some time now, and since Jaxel has shown interest in a all out SC one, then i figured now would be the perfect time to make this thread.
We can all post up our charts and discuss our differences, why or not the numbers should be this high.
Now I came up with preliminary one at class today and this is what is looks like.

Taki vs. Algol = 4/6 *Done*
Taki vs. Amy = 4/6 *Done*
Taki vs. Astaroth = 4/6 *Done*
Taki vs. Cassandra = 4/6 *Done*
Taki vs. Cervantes = 4/6
Taki vs. Darth Vader = 6/4 *Done*
Taki vs. Hilde = 4/6 *Done*
Taki vs. Ivy = 4/6 *Done*
Taki vs. Kilik = 3/7 *Done*
Taki vs. Lizardman = 5/5
Taki vs. Maxi = 6/4 *Done*
Taki vs. Mitsurugi = 4/6
Taki vs. Nightmare = 5/5 *Done*
Taki vs. Raphael = 6/4 *Done*
Taki vs. Rock = 6/4 *Done*
Taki vs. Seong Mi-Na = 6/4 *Done*
Taki vs. Setsuka = 4/6
Taki vs. Siegfried = 6/4 *Done*
Taki vs. Sophitia = 4/6 *Done*
Taki vs. Talim = 6/4 *Done*
Taki vs. The Apprentice = 6/4
Taki vs. Tira = 6/4 *Done*
Taki vs. Voldo = 3/7 *Done*
Taki vs. Xianghua = 5/5 *Done*
Taki vs. Yoda = 7/3 *Done*
Taki vs. Yoshimitsu = 4/6 *Done*
Taki vs. Yun-seong = 6/4 *Done*
Taki vs. Zasalamel = 6/4 *Done*

Inputs gang? ^_^
 
taki vs asta : taki can punish major move bullrush with AB PO ! this can't be a negative matchup for taki !
also, what makes you feel amy has an edge vs taki ? please tell me i want to beat good taki players with my amy ! ^^
and how can taki vs voldo be so bad for voldo ? voldo kicks ass !!
only 3 vs kilik seems strange too, she can jump to get back in range ! and her mid/high/kick constant mixes mostly negate asura
 
I'm dumb and shouldn't talk before I check things.
I'm posting from a PS3 right now, so it's a little hard for me to check stuff and post, but I went into training mode and the knee does indeed beat PO K from most transitions; I guess the Asta I play is just slow.
Body splash beats it most of the time too, but oddly AB PO K seems to beat Body splash.

Also don't feel like the Kilik matchup is that bad. Doesn't 3K beat Asura?

No way she's got that much advantage on Voldo. :S
 
Haha.
The Voldo one i got mixed up. I meant 4 maybe 3 Lollllllllllll.

Well the thing with asta is that PO becomes a super mix-up. Body Splash takes care of all PO options except step and command grabs take care of the step. It's really hard for Taki to play more than a mid-range poking game here.
Yes she can punish Bullrush, but you have to understand that the damage she can deal compares NOTHING to what he is capable of. On top of that, if u space Bullrush correctly it is SAFE. She doesnt get AB PO/AA all the time.

Amy has alot of tools to shut down Taki. 3BA crushing highs comes to mind. If Taki gets obvious with mids B+K is an answer. If she blocks too much, Amy's awesome SG game comes into play with 33B being safe, and her not having a solid While rising punisher has amy abusing things like 1KA and 6BB with no worries at al. Meanwhile she has things like WS B and WS K which are greeeeeeeeeeeat. Keep in mind Taki can also be somewat linear. With 6B into 6B being stepped to one side, Amy can dish out more damage than Taki can AND she gets wake-up options that Taki has never even heard of =/

Kilik is arguably THE WORST match-up she has. Asura beats anything she does. And when its not Asura, its WS B. Which is an amazing move. Poking with 3KK Will get you somewhere, but u need more than that. And honestly she doesnt have anything. =/
 
Everything you're saying seems to be from the point of view of someone who hasn't ever played Amy...

- 1KA is a crappy move against ANY character, just duck or throw out a TC or FC move when you see the 1K.
- what you say about 6BB means you would be ducking randomly ? 'cause you can't duck it on reaction
- 3BA is useless vs a good player because it can be interrupted easily by 9KK or something (9KKK is a NCC ? damn !), jump it, whatever, make your choice. It doesn't even have good TC frames. It's also slow (i18), so all you have do to is AB PO and it will CH.
- auto-gi are risky because all you have to do is delay your attacks or mixup and it gets CH
- there is also a high auto-gi. much more damage than mid (64 guaranteed). but hey just mixup ...
- WS K is close to no damage (16?) and is only i17 ; WS B you can break the stun
- Taki can break Amy's pressure / interrupt pretty easily with AB PO stuff.

Don't underestimate Taki :)
I'd say it's an even match
 
It looks like that on paper yes. A part of me thinks so too. If anything 5.5:4.5, and maybe more opinions on the match-up would help alot but, but theres still the fact that she beats her out everywhere tho.

-If you can see 1K and quickly retaliate with 6A, then thats cool. But keep in mind, you would have to be looking out for the move itself (Highly doubt u can see the A on reaction, never tried, always ducked) and then input 6A. What happens when 6A gets blocked because they did a single 1K?
-I've been playing Scheherazade for awhile now and everytime I use 3B and the opponent throws out a high/throw. I win. Those TC frames are amazing imo, not that i've tested them, but they always work when im using the move. I can't be getting that lucky lol.
-You missed the point on those WS attacks. WS K, KD's on hit (not sure if its safe, dont really use it) and WS B subjects the opponent to a mix-up leading back to square one. Blocking any of these doesnt do much for Taki at all.

Taki jus seems like she has to play it more careful because Amy's SG game is better, her damage is better, and her moves are clearly better. But i would definitely like to hear more from others tho (you included.)

PS - Unless no one's really coming in here or if we're jus discussing this by characters, it's nice to see no one has any objections on the other character match-ups. Jus Amy and Asta =)
 
I agree with the ranking for Taki v. Talim. And I'm glad in general that there aren't any .5 rankings anywhere. That just confuses me when I see it cause you can't win half a match...

Taki is faster, and better at punishing (even things that the most of the cast can't against her). Talim's 33A is good against 80% of PO assuming the player can time it right after blocking transitions. And WL is a good counter for hover, so it basically comes down to conditioning on both sides. Taki can also get out of Talim's optimal range with her 8A+K or 44B. So yeah, slight edge goes to Taki.

I was actually in the process of testing some Kilik counters against Taki. I'm not sure if the match is that low for her, but we'll see.
 
Dreamkiller said:
Kilik is arguably THE WORST match-up she has. Asura beats anything she does. And when its not Asura, its WS B. Which is an amazing move. Poking with 3KK Will get you somewhere, but u need more than that. And honestly she doesnt have anything. =/
Click to expand...

But 3KK is a good poke against Kilik. Unless this post is wrong/missing something, 3KK is totally safe against him.

You can hit him out of Asura a couple different ways with 3KK. If you get lucky/have better reflexes than me, you can tag Kilik with both kicks, leaving him back turned and crouched for a free WRS BKB, if you can hit confirm that. Otherwise you can hit him during the TJ, which puts him on the ground right next to you.

22_88 A is safe against Kilik too, and will CH him out of Asura for the BT A+B, A6, WRS B combo.

It's possible, though hard, to CH 22_88KB him the at the beginning of Asura for ~59 damage. It works in either direction.

You could also get him with A:6 since it's i10 and the first hit is high, though it isn't 100% safe. A, A:6, and Mekki are all fast enough that I think you could train yourself to do them on reaction to Asura.

And you've always got 66K to get in. It has TJ and TC properties, and it does them early enough to beat just about anything Kilik has.

Asura is really bad at connecting if you're already moving to Kilik's right, increasing the utility of those 8wr moves.

Asura is good and all, but I don't think it's game-breaking for Taki.

We should hit up BLDave, I know he's familiar with Kilik and Taki.

Dreamkiller said:
PS - Unless no one's really coming in here or if we're jus discussing this by characters, it's nice to see no one has any objections on the other character match-ups. Jus Amy and Asta =)
Click to expand...

I encouraged my friendly local Asta to throw body splash more and work on his timing with the knee the last couple days, and I'm totally with you on the Asta match-up now. Winnable, but you've got to work for it/guess well.
 
I don't play that much and I didn't have too much problem with BLDave's Kilik and Asura - kilik is solid, but I don't think Asura is as good as people make it out to be. Considering you get A6 for free afterwards or in the middle if you know how to watch for the string end delay.

against Amy's 1KA, don't use 6A, use 3bK as the TC to go under the A
 
Zero Effect - Thanx for ur input. Very Much appareciated ^_^

Twelve/Halister- You can get around Asura with highs, but he's made up of so many more moves than that. He has fast moves like 6A and 1K up close. Not to mention WS B that has the dumbest evasion, and Taki can't punish it. So if u block it, he can jus space u with it. 66K is unsafe, and neg on hit. It is an awesome move tho (for her anyway) but the properties are like 70/30 for me. Theres always a chance of them randomly hitting you out of it. I'll ask Something Unique to give his input on the match, maybe he can go into more detail. We both agreed its 3:7 =/

Wuht - Raph jus doesnt have much to cope with matches in general. Everyone agrees on the fact that he's a pretty bad character. I tried discussing this with AF, but there was no luck since he's stictly online. I've played Klizza's Raphael before, and I didnt even with him at all. Definitely wasn't/isn't his match tho.
 
Twelve said:
But 3KK is a good poke against Kilik. Unless this post is wrong/missing something, 3KK is totally safe against him.

You can hit him out of Asura a couple different ways with 3KK. If you get lucky/have better reflexes than me, you can tag Kilik with both kicks, leaving him back turned and crouched for a free WRS BKB, if you can hit confirm that. Otherwise you can hit him during the TJ, which puts him on the ground right next to you.

22_88 A is safe against Kilik too, and will CH him out of Asura for the BT A+B, A6, WRS B combo.

It's possible, though hard, to CH 22_88KB him the at the beginning of Asura for ~59 damage. It works in either direction.

You could also get him with A:6 since it's i10 and the first hit is high, though it isn't 100% safe. A, A:6, and Mekki are all fast enough that I think you could train yourself to do them on reaction to Asura.

And you've always got 66K to get in. It has TJ and TC properties, and it does them early enough to beat just about anything Kilik has.

Asura is really bad at connecting if you're already moving to Kilik's right, increasing the utility of those 8wr moves.

Asura is good and all, but I don't think it's game-breaking for Taki.

.
Click to expand...

this is all very sound advise for taki for how to deal with kilik. I don't think the match-up is that bad at all for her. What it comes down to is Taki has plenty of options that asura will not beat and plenty of things that Kilik can not punish.

AB/A,B,4A+BA/A,B,4A+B - works really well for pressure agains Kilik and it isnt something Kilik can punish.

same with 3K/3KK - you can fish for CH all day because there really isnt anything Kilik can do about it. he cant punish it, he cant WS B, he cant asura it. he can step but the safety of 22_88A and the damage on counter hit makes it frustrating, although blockable on reaction. It is disadvantage, but that means a lot less for Kilik than for some characters.

just this limited amount of stuff alone should make this match a much better than 3/7 for her. Im more inclined to think this match is more like even. For a long time i thought taki had the edge in this match and I never really found anything other than 'general kilik gayness' or range to disprove it. you just have to play your game 'versus kilik' rather than how you normally run it. while thats true for every character, its double true for stick man.

he can
 
Dreamkiller said:
It looks like that on paper yes. A part of me thinks so too. If anything 5.5:4.5, and maybe more opinions on the match-up would help alot but, but theres still the fact that she beats her out everywhere tho.

-If you can see 1K and quickly retaliate with 6A, then thats cool. But keep in mind, you would have to be looking out for the move itself (Highly doubt u can see the A on reaction, never tried, always ducked) and then input 6A. What happens when 6A gets blocked because they did a single 1K?
Click to expand...

1K is -16. But nobody does 1K it's completely useless. Just duck and do WR BB or something. Every good player I know consistently ducks & punishes this move. It's a bad move. I like to throw it out at the beginning of the match to "test" my opponent. And according to the reaction, use it or forget it. Amy could punish Taki's 6A with 6BB.


Dreamkiller said:
-I've been playing Scheherazade for awhile now and everytime I use 3B and the opponent throws out a high/throw. I win. Those TC frames are amazing imo, not that i've tested them, but they always work when im using the move. I can't be getting that lucky lol.
Click to expand...

If the opponent starts doing 9K/9B on 3BA you're going to have less fun. (or Kilik's 1K that punishes it even if the A isn't thrown out). This move doesn't work vs. good opponent.


Dreamkiller said:
-You missed the point on those WS attacks. WS K, KD's on hit (not sure if its safe, dont really use it) and WS B subjects the opponent to a mix-up leading back to square one. Blocking any of these doesnt do much for Taki at all
Click to expand...

WS K is unsafe. -14. AB PO once more.


Dreamkiller said:
Taki jus seems like she has to play it more careful because Amy's SG game is better, her damage is better, and her moves are clearly better. But i would definitely like to hear more from others tho (you included.)

PS - Unless no one's really coming in here or if we're jus discussing this by characters, it's nice to see no one has any objections on the other character match-ups. Jus Amy and Asta =)
Click to expand...

Most of the matchups seem right to me.

Yeah sure Taki can't be brainless vs Amy. Just saying that her A speed negates a big part of Amy's game, which is to steal priority with the i11 6BB, and that some of the moves you talked about are kind of pointless. CH 9KKK will make Amy think twice before doing 3BA, and WR BB negates 1KA.

I'll ask Ramza (best FR Taki player) what he thinks of the matchup next time I play with him.
 
Halister said:
I don't play that much and I didn't have too much problem with BLDave's Kilik and Asura - kilik is solid, but I don't think Asura is as good as people make it out to be. Considering you get A6 for free afterwards or in the middle if you know how to watch for the string end delay.
Click to expand...

also, if you're feeling it, you can step the second attack to your right and land a bomb whether he does the third hit or not. if you step left the third hit will get you unless you step right immediately after, which looks impressive, hah.

i only really play online but from my experience, whatever that's worth, Kilik has really good anti PO options. a couple auto-SS moves, WS B for the highs and Asura for both mids. he can't do much vs PO stepping or rushing into block, though you still have to be careful here. prolly best to use PO sparingly in this matchup.
 
I'm having problems vs Ivy.
First is Ring_PL who is a beast with her and seems to beat me out of everything i do and i have problems to retaliate after blocking because of range and i don't know the properties of her moves and stances.
Or where i can step/interrupt.

Second is i guess it's WL 214B to serpents embrace which seems to evade even 66K and 66A.
Like when they spam that move, i block SE BBB, then do 66A and they just do it again and i miss with said HORIZONTAL MIDS/SMIDS.
Damn spammers...
And SE sucks in general because the BBB series tracks and pushes back like hell.
Any ways to foil her SE tactics? Like she has ways to foil most of Taki's stances/stance moves. Without even blocking lol.

Third is closing up in general she can kill at least the normal STK with that painful GB
(the modified 6B or something in which her Ivy blade twirls vertically before her and then slams you into the ground)
She seems to have good tools against POR, WR and STK-side too and else i have to weather through 2 or 3 attacks before i reach her or get pushed back again :P

Ivy gives me way more pain than any kilik.
I'd say that she's at least 4/6 or worse because of said problems unless i just suck with taki which i don't think.
 
This prob isn't going to help much, but if you step~walk right when you know she's gonna 214, she'll be backturned for a free back throw. I also had some success against her 214-Bing in the middle of my strings by doing the kicks at the end of AB_BA_B etc, but it's risky in general since she can always just duck.
 
FleshMasher said:
I'm having problems vs Ivy.
Click to expand...

i don't think this is the appropriate thread, so maybe make a new thread for Vs. Ivy or for versus in general.

i have some answers but i don't wanna clutter this thread which is just for matchups.

but it's true that her CL 214 can be a real pain for taki since it steps to taki's weaker side. but she's mostly vulnerable to a 66BB if you block it.
 
Ah okay thanx i formulated my question into a vote for 4/6 or even 3/7 for Ivy.
Because of said tools she has. And her range.
 
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