Tier Discussion

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Djangoknight said:
8896B = 66B
Tadaa. am a Scientist.
get your damn illusions out of here.
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Scientists say tadaa?

Anyway I didn't really expect that. It works because no one has a 896 move, but you are forced to step to your left, which may be unfavorable for avoiding certain moves. All of this is still interesting though.


Belial said:
If you really have to, you can 22147896B , not that difficult. at least if you claim to main the char you should be able to do it. I dont really get why you need 66B from ss when you can 33_99B
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My head hurts.
 
Online rant:​
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Why does every one just pull out a Viola now after they've lost a couple. Shameless....​

I think her and Mitsu are tops based on damage, effectiveness and overall ease of use.
 
MntT77 said:
Hilde's A+B is an excellent zoning tool - sure, it's -16 on block, but considering the move's immense range, it's not like you can really punish it. 6A+B and 66K are useful for getting in as well, the former having good range and frame advantage on block, whilst the latter gives you awesome frame advantage on hit.

JG does limit the effectiveness of certain tools, granted. C3A stands out in that regard, but it's still an excellent whiff punisher if you don't have enough meter for CE.

I'm not saying that Hilde is awesome, because she has some obvious flaws (lack of good lows, no move for punishing -12 etc.), but I just find it difficult to imagine her being in the bottom 5 (which I assumed you were implying with 'one of the worst characters in the game').
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6A+B is 0 on block after the patch, and generally being 0 on block in someone's face with hilde isn't great. A+B is totally punishable, I have eaten a ton of shit from it by many characters. Her canned moves get even worse when people start Auto GI-ing and stepping, not just a throw attempt but huge damage.

66K and C2A are pretty much all I see with her that are usable. Unless someone turns that infinite into "useable".

I think Ralph might actually be better....
 
Hilde players need to work that C4A into there game. Leads to good damage wall combos. Unfortunately after seeing it once it got JG afterwards. Man do I love that mechanic :)
 
Reave said:
Just because Asteroth has easy inputs doesn't mean he is easy to use.
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Exactly. Easy inputs and easy application are 2 different things. In fact only a small handful of moves are difficult at all in this game. The top characters' tools are good and easily applied. Easy to execute just eliminates the human error factor, which is still relevant.
 
It's been said many times before, but it's worth re-iterating - a character's 'ease of use' has NOTHING to do with their tier placement. It's all about how they perform at the highest level of play. So yes, you're assuming that Omega will consistently punish -15 moves with DNS B, and Alpha will consistently get his JFs down etc.

Easy to use characters might get picked up more and therefore developed better to start with, but as time goes on that factor should level out and you should see the characters for what they really are.
 
MntT77 said:
Easy to use characters might get picked up more and therefore developed better to start with, but as time goes on that factor should level out and you should see the characters for what they really are.
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My only gripe with Viola is that she's probably the ultimate flowchart character. Mindless combos into fresh launchers, and relaunches on GIs. When Keev puts down Nightmare for a pocket Viola I get an inkling that she may a bit high on the power spectrum (he did lose anyway though).

That being said, I feel that a lot of the ranged characters have an excellent match-up vs. Viola; seems like a counter pick would be absolutely necessary depending on who you main.
 
As I said in the other topic, regarding nerfing Viola: Viola's a new character, is decent, and has something a lot of characters don't so she seems better to you all than she is. Once/if you actually learn to play against the character, you'll realize she has holes just like anyone else who isn't Mitsu.
 
People still using the whole tier thing as an excuse for their own inadequacy. There is nothing worse than beating someone just for them to go away thinking that they are the superior player and they only lost because their character was weaker.
 
Azazel said:
I rather keep my "low" tier Sieg than switching to a high tier character in the middle of tournament, at least if I lose I will go out proud of what I did.
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A "low-tier" Siegfried just took a Toronto tournament. Granted it was a fairly low turnout, but this guy really knows his character and how to apply his strengths (as did the other players there with higher tier characters, i.e. Cervy, Mitsu, etc.).

I mean, these threads are inevitable and all, but we're still only 3 months in. There's so much left to learn. I engage in this thread from time to time, but I'm not sure I really understand the point. Is it so people know which characters are "best" so that they can take them up? Is it so people will know their characters are "bad" and will use that as an excuse, instead of seeking creative work-arounds? I was playing Viola from launch, when she was universally considered "bad" (for the most part, and especially in the Viola SA). The 1.02 patch buffed her, obviously, but it didn't really have too much impact on the way she could be played pre/post patch. Instead of crying about it, I was learning her tools and how to apply them. I feel like more effort should be invested in this, in general.

Edit: AceFrost said I was thinking in the post above. Basically nailed it. Tiers = tears.
 
Reave said:
Just because Asteroth has easy inputs doesn't mean he is easy to use.
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He forces the opponent to work harder to beat him than he has to work to do so. In order to do well against him you have to Just Guard 22B and 44A on reaction, which is considerably harder than guessing 22B and getting half health.

I don't think Astaroth is a good character, but he's really annoying to fight against.
 
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