taffertier
[10] Knight
But that was only two hits. At most an extra 8 to 10 damage from the character size.
Top 3 characters by Keev, Akire, Daishi, Hyrul, and RTD from World Finals
- Thread starter DoctorForHire
- Start date
But that was only two hits. At most an extra 8 to 10 damage from the character size.
REPROBEAN_CHILD
[14] Master
Point is no matter how small added damage is, it will accumulate and destroy you. That's why Character Creation in SCV is banned. I'm feeling very tired after non-stop homework, so I'm not in the mood for any kind of debate at the moment :p
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ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
All I'm sayin is, too many people put way too much stock into tournament results to figure out who's "top-tier" and who's "not-viable".
If some random player came out tomorrow and started winning 6 tourneys in a row with Raphael, we'd see tons of people start preaching about how "Raphael was secretly top tier the whole time" or "Raphael has to be moved up the tier list a few places due to so-and-so's performance" when the character's tools haven't been changed at all.
Likewise, if we don't see Cervantes, APat or Mitsurugi dominate EVO, people will start preaching about how those characters are "soooo overrated and are B tier at best blah-blah-blah" when again, nothing about the character has changed.
At their core, matchups between characters are determined by differences in their tools, are they not? I thought that was the whole basis in determining a matchup... which then would determine the tiers.
Sir_Thaddeus
[08] Mercenary
I'd have to say the sieg is the most OP character in da game his 3B is of epic proportions and gosh dang diddly do da its fast too!!!!
GNG_Iniquity
[08] Mercenary
Everyone has throws, obviously his reach is a bit better, but it's despite the point that everyone has the potential to continually attempt to throw you. His 123 B+G is the primary concern. Get used to hitting B to tech it, yes he has low throws but again if you're blocking him high, they're not going to be a problem. His lows are really obvious..take him into the lab you'll see what I mean.
TerminatorCortez
[10] Knight
omega getting cocky lmao win a tourney without nightmare first(top tier) and this statement could be valid.
Slade
[14] Master
Nightmare isn't top tier, and even if he was, your point is still invalid because Omega won matches in tournament play against some of the best players in the world with Siegfried.
Asodimazze
[10] Knight
How can you guys waste so much time always writing the same things? lol
kAb
[12] Conqueror
the B command throw isnt the primary concern. the A command throw with the JF does 74 damage and has the possibility for clean hit. i'll take that all day if you are too stubborn to mix up your breaks. a landed B command throw is just the icing on the cake when you do get to land it.
also you dont have to duck for asta crouch throws to be effective. he can make you guess a break off of CH 4A, CH 1BB, CH 6A and a few other moves, not to mention he can use them as low block punishment.
^ So true.
You know the quickest way to lose against any good Astaroth? Standing.
Astaroth's job in a match is to make you want to stand, then slaughter you when you do. I'm fortunate with my main as his risk/reward vs a throw mid mixup trumps Astaroth hands down, but the principals applied to competing with the big man are universal.
You know the quickest way to lose against any good Astaroth? Standing.
Astaroth's job in a match is to make you want to stand, then slaughter you when you do. I'm fortunate with my main as his risk/reward vs a throw mid mixup trumps Astaroth hands down, but the principals applied to competing with the big man are universal.
acefrost
[12] Conqueror
That actually made me laugh, thanks.
RTD
SC4 International Champ
with the constant patches, the level between tiers is becoming less and less. sure, they exist, but it's not like sc4 where there were no patches and ivy and hilde ruled the world.
if you find something broke or cheap with a character, it will be patched. since there is no easy way out anymore, the best thing you can do is master the character that you like or even try a counter picking strat.
if you find something broke or cheap with a character, it will be patched. since there is no easy way out anymore, the best thing you can do is master the character that you like or even try a counter picking strat.
Ramification-EX
[08] Mercenary
Excellent selection. Sun Tzu is required reading for anyone engaging in any sort of competitive endeavor that requires strategic analysis. Here's a quote I came across from one of my friends in the Tekken community.
"The scrub plays the character. The beginner plays the game. The master plays the opponent."
Silent Joel
[12] Conqueror
He's bottom tier, you must be playing some amazing Cervy player to think he's top...
Lol at Hyrul's part corrupted. Who cares what he thinks anyway, he didn't even earn his place there.
ShinJin
[09] Warrior
you must be dumb or something.
Nightmare is really unsafe and if you GUESS WRONG you end up getting fucked, when NM hits you he does alot of damage and leads in to techtraps, so although the moves/character do alot for you they also do alot of bad for you.
Characters with high risk reward do not make good tourney characters, the good characters are ones that do alot of damage and have good setups even when you guess wrong, which is what the top 3 have.
taffertier
[10] Knight
You must be dumb or something bringing this up so late as it has already been brought up that frame data doesnt mean much in this game.
That's not me saying that it's Omega, i just happen to agree. If frames meant everything Nightmare would never see the light of day because like you said he is extremely unsafe. If frames meant everything than Leixia and Natsu would be the best in the game as they are quick and safe on a lot of their strings but hard frame data is not the be all and end all of judging a character's effectiveness. Also if any character in general guesses wrong or whiffs an attack they will get punished for it, that's a universal rule everyone follows. I believe in this game getting in your opponents head is one of the most important part of playing a character in this game, it's up to the player to make you respect and fear their character not their frames.
Since when is Natsu safe?
You've never played a good alpha player have you?
If I realise you do not know Alpha's frames on block and hit inside out, I will rape you with twister all day untill you're stood blocking in a corner for 80% of the match. Frames are a basis, tournament play does not revolve around them because EVERYBODY knows them, so disrespecting frames deliberately is a common occurance. If you don't have that basis however, you are so free its ridiculous.
Twelve
[09] Warrior
Frames mean about as much in this game as they do in any game. There have always been moves that are only safe at tip range and players attacking at disadvantage to beat some setup.
I can't speak for Omega, but I suspect "frames don't matter" means something along the lines of "you can't discount a move only for having bad frames." If you just look at the frames, Cervy aB is a pretty terrible move, but if you use it appropriately it's actually really good.
I can't speak for Omega, but I suspect "frames don't matter" means something along the lines of "you can't discount a move only for having bad frames." If you just look at the frames, Cervy aB is a pretty terrible move, but if you use it appropriately it's actually really good.
taffertier
[10] Knight
That's the part i'm trying to get at, sure there are some moves you have to respect, ones that will mess up you regardless if you dont respect them, but as for the rest like you said disrespecting the rest happens quite a lot.
And no, sadly i have yet to face a good A Pat. I've fought several decent ones, just not any who could give me a run for my money.
Maybe Pyrrha would have been a better example, i just know several of natsu's attack strings are safe. Just not her things like wind roll and possession.
