What's up with all the Algol hate?

sephalump said:
2nd hit of 6AA can be ducked,
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didn t know that >.>
Still don t think its heavily punishable but at least is something.

Outspacing him range wise isn't your goal. You're outspacing his horizontal options to bait a whiff.
Almost all those power mids are linear or slow. Thus it's a high risk high reward guess on both players parts.
You're not even bringing up some of his best step killing tools either, which further proves you don't really know the character.
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actually depends on the reward of an opponent correct guessing :| not every character has half health damage from high whiffs....and a TC 66A is something really good.



Full life combos take a full 2 Bars of meter and only do that much damage off a slow very linear launcher. While they don't require crazy execution they still require the use of iFC8B* buffer(which is a non issue but someone is going to bring it up).
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U sure? i think it comes even from some KD kicks comboing in double CE (the kick + the ce should do.....or at least they do 220+)

This isn't a problem, nor does it keep him from within top 5. Just keeps him from broken.
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and that where we i would say.....matchup matters.
 
darkfender said:
didn t know that >.>
Still don t think its heavily punishable but at least is something.


actually depends on the reward of an opponent correct guessing :| not every character has half health damage from high whiffs....and a TC 66A is something really good.




U sure? i think it comes even from some KD kicks comboing in double CE (the kick + the ce should do.....or at least they do 220+)


and that where we i would say.....matchup matters.
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He doesn't get half health damage for landing 66A, even with meter either. I dunno about 6KK but if you're talking Divekick or 1A knockdowns you deserve to eat the damage. By full life I assumed you meant actual 240+ damage combos. Double CE's damage is huge, but it makes up for the fact you have to build two entire meters and keep them. Since he needs that meter for good damage it balances out.
 
sephalump said:
He doesn't get half health damage for landing 66A, even with meter either. I dunno about 6KK but if you're talking Divekick or 1A knockdowns you deserve to eat the damage. By full life I assumed you meant actual 240+ damage combos. Double CE's damage is huge, but it makes up for the fact you have to build two entire meters and keep them. Since he needs that meter for good damage it balances out.
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i meant that not every character can punish his 66A for half health so its not so bad.

Instead i do not agree that a lucky 1A connected due to a guess is good to earn a whole round....
 
darkfender said:
i meant that not every character can punish his 66A for half health so its not so bad.

Instead i do not agree that a lucky 1A connected due to a guess is good to earn a whole round....
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Algol decides to throw out random 1A versus Sieg. Sieg goes SBH B and punishes with 110+ damage with only one brave edge. I would say in that case Algol has to take significant risk.
 
Given the fact I've jG-d Algol's 1A on reaction before(it was against the computer to work on Just Guarding since it basically plays like a psychic button masher) I'd say it's just fine. QS-ing takes 24(?) frames. Crouch guard takes 1~2. Algol's 1A hits in 31. That means even after stepping you have time to block, and it's -16 . The animation is probably the most obvious next to Zwei's.
If you want a reason to say something about 1A give him back SC4's please.(this is a massive joke, give him SC4's 1A in this game I will hate you forever, don't validate the complaints namco. Don't do it.)

---Edit---I just realized you're saying some of the cast can't make 66A a move worth using cautiously because most the cast doesn't get good damage. Just because you play Raphael doesn't mean most the other characters(the ones that aren't horrible?) can't. Here's characters who can deal with 66A in the most obvious sense(Purple is on block, Blue if they ducked it)

Alpha:(in theory) JF Twisterx2 AA, JF twister easily probably other stuff idk
Aeon: WS B
Algol: WS B, FC8B, 4BA.
Astaroth: FC 3K or unavoidable throw attempt
Cervantes: aB, WS B or WS B+K
Lexia: AA, FC3B
Maxi: AA, WS A or 6A+B(am I right?)
Mitsu: 6b8, 236B, FC 3B(doesn't seem like much but they all deal 30+ damage)
nightmare: WS B, FC3B, could probably 4Kk*:B(61 damage)
Patroklos: AA; 236:B, WS KA, WS A+B
Pyrrha: AA ,236:B:4 or WS B+K
Omega: AA. ns:B:4, DnS B:4, WS B, WS B+K
Siegfried: WS B
Tira: GS AA, either side's WS BK or possible Gloomy's 4B:B:B(if you're boss)
Xiba: WS KKK
Yoshi: AA or iMCF(not that you ever would); 4KB or 6K
Zwei: WS B

As you can see your character is the exception, _not_ the generality. A lot of the characters I didn't list can still hit pretty hard, I just don't know how. Upon a right guess 2/3s SC5's roster can deal really good damage. 66A is still a damn good move, but it being a high and you being predictable or baited screws you up. Random ducks at that range aren't such a bad deal. The defending player should be able to react to 44B's startup if they random duck, 1B isn't too bad on nh, 66B needs meter to rough them up too bad. 3BB is -14(launch punishable on jG) and also needs meter to really hurt. 22A is slow enough for you to stand for and block, leaving him at neutral so you have options too.

66A on hit: 30 damage
Average high whiff-punish: 45+ damage
Your character sucking at punishing highs and you getting salty: Priceless.(It's a joke, don't get all riled up)
 
Slade said:
236B = 42 damage
4(B) > Prep BB BE = 64 damage
4(B) > Prep BBB > 85A+BA = 71 damage

And god help you if you do 66A against a Raph who is in Preparation.
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Yeah I don't really know a damn thing about Raphael. I had asked myself why 236B wouldn't work but didn't want to post it up and him have a reason to nitpick.
 
sephalump said:
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no i just meant that 1A can happen to hit due to many factors (example a whiff) and a single move with low risk turning into a whole round won, even using 2 bars, seems OP imho.
Its not that i will get hit by a random 1A while i am neutral.
Its also TT so its not so impossible to hit with.


For 66A i don t understand:
it tracks its TC and its fast ._. how on earth can an opponent duck or JG an i17 on reaction?
On prediction? well considering where i saw it used its not the case being a spacing tool, mostly when both character are 8wring


Well if you all can JG i17 moves i can't say much....i cannot for sure.

Also raph best moves are TC......


Last but not least:
I explained i don t care that much for algol.....
I just said some people consider him broken.....personally i consider him OP in some moves...but i cannot say much more lacking a deep knowledge of him.

This led at least at some data it seems, despite i do not agree with his "weaknesses" being considered such :|.

P.S. and the only move that get me really angry in this game is mitsu FC1BB -.- throwed at a random disadvantage -.-
 
I was talking about just guarding 1A, and clearly stated such. 1A also isn't a "low risk" move. Like I said you can just IT on reaction, and even if you don't it's -16. If they fish for a random 1A, it lands, and an Algol wants to burn 2 entire precious meters for that damage it's his own decision. He could do a little less but so much more comfortable risk vs reward with other moves and just doing an actual combo(which builds him a bit of meter back). CE2 is really powerful, but given the fact it takes 2 bars of a meter centered character it is just fine how it is. If it weren't at the level of damage it was at nobody would use it and would just use his BE's for combos.
 
I don't know about everyone else, but this is why I hate Algol:
He does not need a single combo that does this much damage. Yes I realize it's using all 4 bars of meter, but that doesn't mean it should be allowed to connect all as one single combo for 75%+. I mean if you do that much damage with 2 different combos that use a total of 2 bars each, fine. But that much damage off of one combo that is easy enough to do that it can be done ONLINE... Nerf Hammer please. -_-
 
"Algol is overpowered because he has combos online" Jk :p. Anyways 44B is linear and a bit on the slow side. There are ridiculous amounts of damage all over in this game. In the YT description you mention Viola's combos. The difference is hitting someone with a 27 frame launcher, to an 18 frame one with good tech crouching. Cervantes gets 85 damge-> stupid good oki off his 3B then gets to keep his meter to punish you for anything with double CE.
Btw I take credit for my part of credit in that video. That was me rofl(alt account, the name is a reference to another disney character)
 
it seems the discussion on algol has not ended in patch thread....
And it seems people discussing it are not really "online players" aside the fact online means a lot less nowaday :)


When i come here i read this sucks, this is bad, when i go there i read same moves are OP...... ._.
So answering the question why the algol hate?

Many players thinks he is OP and they posted lot of reasons....
Also some of them are only scrubs but few people thinks throws/RO are broken also....so they should be ignored.....

The point is most players will at most complain of a character but nor boot nor hatemail......and those are opinion that should be respected imho.
 
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Throne porn.

BTW what do you guys think about those scars on his arms? I like them in a "they're gross-but-cool" way. I wouldn't mind if he had them wherever the weapons emerge, so like on his abs, down his arms, on the bottom of his feet, and his upper back. Might make the weapons seem less like magic and more like they're a part of him, hidden away inside his body. The scars would be visibly open during the animations but would seal instantly after, so no blood or gaping wounds during the winpose.
 
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