Whip State Tips

[IvyFanboy]

i usually connect a 1AA. May switch to yours. 1AA is very negative on hit, but still safe i think.

I'm falling in love with WP 2B. Move is an interrupt machine. 2B, WR K is a great panic set up for someone in your face when you see an opening. If the WR K connects, use the frame advantage of WR K to either fight back or get to a more convenient stance/position.

2B has replaced my 3A for up close.
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Also FC CH 3B A+B, 66A+B is massively great damage im finding.

 

[Ring]

Oh edit: I mean wats good about CL 44B,a+kB.

Nothing really. There's no good followup in WP after this.

I don't know off the top of my head, but does CL 6A,A+K have the same CH properties as WP 6A,A? Seeing as that its only good on CH as the last hit can be ducked if it isn't CH., WP 6A,A has way better range.

Yeah, they both have the same properties. They should be used with their alternate versions though, it's the only way to use them effectively imo. I agree with WP 6A,A being better. Especially because it has that glitch JF (WP 6A:B+K ) that allows to connect B+K (which is positive on block) from any range because Ivy will teleport. WP 6A alone is great too, not only because it's fast but on CH it gives you + frames (which is rare in WP lol)

I've also noticed that you can connect WP 22B right after a CH 6A,A. I believe it's a tech trap, but I haven't completely tested it.

You can also try CL 6A+B or WP 2B+K (will relaunch if they don't roll :P)

I'm falling in love with WP 2B. Move is an interrupt machine.

Remember that this move is also positive on hit when performed out of FC. From standing position it's 0 on hit.

 

[Davo87]

WP post GI Ring out is so sexy! I think Ive seen someone use it before, but really rare. (Also accessible from CL ofcos.)

fast: 3B+K
slow: 1B

I raised this mainly bcos no one ever does it. -.-

 

[joulisians]

If any of you scrutinize the frame data of WP moves, they may be pretty bad on paper.

But when it comes to real game play, it may prove other wise since you have to factor in elements like push backs, reaction time and range.

6B+K is one of my favorite moves back in SC3 because of the range.

I personally love WP 3A because its a fast mid and gives great dmg follow ups on CH. And I love WP 1A or WP 1AA for poke games. WP FC3B is one of my main range moves as well.

 

[MrCerebellum]

I love WP in it's ability to keep distance between you and your opponent. Between 6B and 22a when they finally manage to close the gap you're ready to hit them with CL or SW.

 

[Davo87]

If the WP 3A now is supported by WP CS from SC3, it will become a very powerful combo. As the opponent become more accustomed to step block and running in and block, u want them to run into a throw, which SW iCS is much better for. Having the throw speed slower and buffer harder could be a valid balance. Tho, I missed SC3 speed. :)

 

[Kaz]

WP 6b is very slept on
and i dont get y if its applied right its a nice
tool like after CL 66A 7GB WP 6b is a nice way to create space
and murder a tech at long range. i dont know the frame data on 6B so dont kill me on
that im just sayin with the right application its pretty good. and yeas i know u can step
it and duck it but thats where u mix up with WP [A] 6b+k 2_8

 

[Davo87]

WP 6B is good when ppl step linearly or if they forget about this move and not block. It also catches certain chars like NM who tries to 33B under it when they time it wrong. Use it so if they keep block standing. :)

WP [A] 6b+k 2_8

Just becareful that some chars like NM's 6B can punish and with Sophie if the second hit misses her TAS can punish you. Ask 350Hz.


Btw, Ive dug up an old jew, WP 44[A]. Remember the on tip, SE 66K is unblockable? After SE 66[K] on wall, u get 3B>CL4B>214K. (58dmg) If you delay the 214 K and they tech, its around 90dmg. XD
I have to remember to use it once in a while.

 

[Ring]

You can get approx 70dmg without any techtraps. I don't know if this was mentioned, but after WP 44[A] on tip range block, SE K works too! (on bigger characters like Asta or Nightmare anyway, but it works on the smaller ones too if there's a wall near) If I remember well WP 44[A](blocked) -> SE K(wall), SE K, SE K, 5hit JF is almost 70dmg ;]

Btw I need your opinion on

CH WP FC 3~A+B. Can this be considered a mashable JF? I was playing with it recently and I seem to be able launch the opponent much often when I mash A rapidly (I mash A/A+K/A+B at the same time :P) I think it's worth to make a further reseach on this, because 70~80 dmg of CH WP FC3B sounds pretty nice.

 

[Kaz]

yeah i know about the whiff punishes but from the range given from the combo i listed above i dont think many ppl can punish u. maybe Ivy,hilde if she steps foward or somthing and possibally kilik if he does the same thing. try it davo so u can the the space you get im pretty sure u wont get punished. thans for the
tips though.

 

[Davo87]

CH WP FC 3~A+B. Can this be considered a mashable JF?

Think the reason its mashable is bcos it is the fastest timing. Back in SC3 there is a stage 1 release which is a small launch and stage 2 release is the one now we have in SC4. I dont think SC4 has the stage 1 launch for FC WP 3B. Except for 44A+B and 3A+B.

Kaz: If they block 6B+K then they are usually too far to punish. If they step 6B+K and block the 2nd hit, then they are in range to punish. As for that combo, it setups a good distance as u mentioned to start the SG attack range. With NM, Hilde and Sophie or anyone else I didnt mention, doing 6B+K>2_8 at close range is asking to get punished easily. NM also gets 33B and aGA at that range.

 

[Kaz]

Oh ok now understand what u ment. I thought u where saying from
the range given on CL 66A 7gb.

 

[IvyFanboy]

The more I play Ivy with Malek in mind the more I can't stop spamming 6B+K2_8. Besides a Gi I don't fear anything when I have this. Its go amazing pushback, can hit step, breaks in 9-10. Mix this in with a 11A to catch step and standing guard or hell do some more SG dmg (breaks in 14 i think) and it's just great. If they get in close i do 3A and 2B and I'm usually pretty good. I can chew off half a life bar by the time they get through it all.

It's punishable but if you use it at the right range it's VERY safe. I often lose cause I feel like I'm being cheap and move in. I need to really train myself to abuse the crap out of it. Really I believe WP mode should be all about this move and every other move designed to push them back to it or punish a bold move to escape it. You just gotta be careful what range you use it at. Pretty much anytime I get a knock down with Ivy I step back with WP mode for this instead of hover with SW. 6A, 6AA, 4K, 3A, 66B, 11A, 4A+B are all great to keep the pressure going once they break free of the spam.

 

[Kaz]

I hear you on the spacing thing i noticed that
7 and 8 gb's tend to open up ivy's space game alot
on knock downs. Though the move used to knock down must be spaced right.
Another good way to space is with cl 236 BB4 (thnx 2 ring for finding) this gives space
just a bit out mid range so its kind of safe to start ivy's whip poke game
if we had WP 6A+B with just a decent/resonable amount of track ivy's space game in whip
would be problemmatic

 

[Ring]

WP 11A is Ivy's best TC move (along with SE A+K) in terms of TC frames. Tech Crouch starts at frame 2, it's faster than any other (WP 3B+K, 1A, 6B+K, CL 236B, SW 22_88K/2A+K, 4K, 6K etc)

Why out of all moves this one has the best TC properties? It's so bad that I'm not even sure if it can be implemented into high level offline gameplay. Maybe only at absolute tip range for SG damage.

Also, It's not related to Whip, but does CL 3B have any TC/evade properties? I noticed that when Kilik does 6AAA, CL 3B goes under the last A all the time.

 

[EpicPhail37]

I remember spamming the hell out of the equivalent of WP 6B+K2_8 in SC2, but one thing that stuck out in my mind that makes it risky is Astaroth. I remember he could GI you and depending on your distance, get a free throw attempt, but I think the GI system is different now so that's why it's a little more abuseable. 4G just drags you the ground instead of sucking you in so it's harder to get a throw attempt. And oh yea, the added SG dmg is definitely another reason why the move is more useful now.

 

[dittO]

WP 11A is Ivy's best TC move (along with SE A+K) in terms of TC frames. Tech Crouch starts at frame 2, it's faster than any other (WP 3B+K, 1A, 6B+K, CL 236B, SW 22_88K/2A+K, 4K, 6K etc)

Why out of all moves this one has the best TC properties? It's so bad that I'm not even sure if it can be implemented into high level offline gameplay. Maybe only at absolute tip range for SG damage.

Also, It's not related to Whip, but does CL 3B have any TC/evade properties? I noticed that when Kilik does 6AAA, CL 3B goes under the last A all the time./QUOTE]
Sometimes I used (with a risk though) WP 11A on certain occasions vs NM, but later i noticed that WP 214A does a better job and with a slight less risk. Although both moves If used for their TC properties they both have limited/specific use...

I have also witnessed CL 3B evasion rarely, sometimes TC, sometimes step and sometimes both but very rarely.
However with the same frequency, Ivy can get backthrown out of this move If the opponent is lucky.

 

[Davo87]

WP 11A is for oki or range tool forcing the opponent to block. In terms of TC usefulness doing it under NM's aGA works in a range verse range situation.

Sometimes I used (with a risk though) WP 11A on certain occasions vs NM, but later i noticed that WP 214A does a better job and with a slight less risk. Although both moves If used for their TC properties they both have limited/specific use...

That is okay if u predict it going under GS A. Otherwise in general, 11A is bad against NM for a lot of reasons if you know then skip this bit........ first in NSS: WP 11A will lose to his NSS A and its heavily punishable by his WS B or FC 3B or 6B:B from far. Its also easily interruptable by 33B.

Against NM, 4K is good. Until he starts 88B or step throw.

(WP 3B+K, 1A, 6B+K, CL 236B, SW 22_88K/2A+K, 4K, 6K etc)

Add in CL WS A, CL 6B, WP 6B, WP 6bA+B. WP 6B and 6B+K is good against chars with aGAs.
I dunno about CL 3B. I nvr used it for TC counter so Im unsure about its TC frames. I truly wish CL 4A being a high gets TC frames on startup.

4K, SW 2A+K is still the top 2 moves for TC on my list. WP 11A is too slow and unsafe be used regularly, well if they never punish it. It does about 40 dmg, so it weighs according to do they have a big range mid option or a punisher which hurts more.

 

[Ring]

I'd use it more it it wasn't -25+ on block. This is just stupid, so much block disadvantage after low that will be blocked by everyone even at heavy lag online.

WP 6bA+B TCs? I never knew that... but still, I don't use it much. I wish it was so good at SG breaking like in BD (10 to CF)

Funny that you mentioned WP 6B =) I have never been able to figure out its properties, but I'm pretty sure everyone noticed that that it not only TCs but also evades mid verticals sometimes. At some point I thought Ivy has "immortality" frames during this move.

 

[Davo87]

WP 6bA+B TC but later than WP 6B.

Immortality aka Dragon punch? lol

I would of sworn SW WS B fits that description more. As it goes under BBs. I posted that up in the Sword thread but no one even made a comment about it. :( Is it that useless?