Belial
King of Hundred Swords
its bK guys
Yoshimitsu Web Theater.
- Thread starter SWBeta
- Start date
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
Furzy:
You get 22K on block which is a perfect iMCF setup. I'm not sure if the 2A is a misinput or intentional here. If you create enough fear of iMCF, your opponent will eventually start hesitating on setups like these and you can continue to pressure. For the persistent opponents, just adjust to whatever they're doing. You definitely have control of the situation after these pseudo-tech traps. =)
After watching you play, I realize that I adjust to each player based on how they react after getting hit by 33B B+K (non-launch) since it's such a big tool for us Yoshi players. You seem to focus on doing 2A or iMCF after it connects. Since you have a "perceived advantage" (you're really at -4 on hit), you should use that opportunity to continue pressuring your opponent. It seems like Doc is expecting a 2A or iMCF now, so maybe start playing mind games with him?
Maybe consider using 2K, bG, or other feints when your opponent is on the ground. They're expecting a 3B, so why not force them to get up. They know they can punish a blocked 3B, so you can force them to get up blocking and then use that to your advantage. If they start rolling around again, you get more free 3Bs. =)
Have you considered using a RCC iMCF after a low such as 2A and 2K, btw?
Doc:
You connect a WS A and don't 4KK into the wall? WHY?!?! =(
Yeah, yeah. It's a fake trap anyways. =(
You get 22K on block which is a perfect iMCF setup. I'm not sure if the 2A is a misinput or intentional here. If you create enough fear of iMCF, your opponent will eventually start hesitating on setups like these and you can continue to pressure. For the persistent opponents, just adjust to whatever they're doing. You definitely have control of the situation after these pseudo-tech traps. =)
After watching you play, I realize that I adjust to each player based on how they react after getting hit by 33B B+K (non-launch) since it's such a big tool for us Yoshi players. You seem to focus on doing 2A or iMCF after it connects. Since you have a "perceived advantage" (you're really at -4 on hit), you should use that opportunity to continue pressuring your opponent. It seems like Doc is expecting a 2A or iMCF now, so maybe start playing mind games with him?
Maybe consider using 2K, bG, or other feints when your opponent is on the ground. They're expecting a 3B, so why not force them to get up. They know they can punish a blocked 3B, so you can force them to get up blocking and then use that to your advantage. If they start rolling around again, you get more free 3Bs. =)
Have you considered using a RCC iMCF after a low such as 2A and 2K, btw?
Doc:
You connect a WS A and don't 4KK into the wall? WHY?!?! =(
Yeah, yeah. It's a fake trap anyways. =(
docvizzo
[14] Master
Cause im an idiot?? lol, sometimes it happens...i have to play more, these days im not even comfortable with stuff like 3B~iGDR...
Furzy
The "almost-french" guy
yup, it's a misinput. I wasn't in my best day anyway that day, missed a looot of iMCFs ^^' The bad thing with iMCF is if I stop practicing for several days I just lose the timing -___- hate it...
you're right about RCC iMCF it could be a great tool, i'll practice that and try to put it into use.
funkpanda
[09] Warrior
I agree with Hajime, once people are afraid of iMCF, thats when you have your way with them. It's fun to think of it like this, anything that leaves yoshi at -4 on block or hit basically leaves him at advantage.
Because it's all iMCF frame traps.
Furzy
The "almost-french" guy
NEW VIDS
07/12/09 – First to 5
Docvizzo (Cervantes) 4 VS 5 Furzy (Yoshimitsu)
Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:
Still have trouble punishing Cervantes' moves... oh well :p Enjoy
07/12/09 – First to 5
Docvizzo (Cervantes) 4 VS 5 Furzy (Yoshimitsu)
Part 1:
Still have trouble punishing Cervantes' moves... oh well :p Enjoy
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
Not ignoring the vids, Furzy. Just been busy. I'll take a look when I'm free. Looking forward to it. =)
Furzy
The "almost-french" guy
no prob pal, looking forward to your advice! Still, my biggest problem is punishment as usual -_-
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
Furzy:
- Getting punishment down will be BIG! A lot were missed, but you know that. =(
- In the first set of vids, you seem to be back stepping quite a bit. Is there a reason for not wanting to be close to Cervy? It seems to get you in a lot of trouble. When you do get in close against Cervy, it seems like you're not sure what to do and you start resorting to safety (AA_BB) or dangerous lows (214A_iFC 3K). Later on you start applying pressure, but don't take it to the next level. i.e. You have Doc blocking FLE {B} and waiting patiently for the follow-up a:B+K. Use that to your advantage and take a free throw attempt. If he decides to start using TC moves, then iMCF or 3K are solid ways to stop anything he throws at you.
- You seem afraid to step against Cervy, who has few step killers. Why no sideways movement?
- You're not giving Doc a compelling reason to get up after you've knocked him down. You keep hunting for iFC 3K and iFC 1KKK (not always guaranteed on a roller. Depends on the situation) and you end up whiffing. Why not more 3B and 2K to force wake-up games on him? If you can force him to stand more often, things like T4 and ST3 become that much more powerful.
- I wouldn't call this "bad" per se, but Yoshi, imho, doesn't have any really strong ways to continue pressuring after 3B, a:B+K. Personally I'd just take the free 1B and then go from there.
The Good:
- Nice to see some RCCing going on in there, even though it's not connecting. Consider using 2K (on hit), into RCC iMCF and 2A (hit or block) into RCC iMCF. The frames are mostly in your favor.
- Your 44bB is very consistent. You're the only other Yoshi I know who is consistent with it in his combos.
- Great use of suicide.
One random note.
After the a:B+K you had a great ST3 opportunity, but you went for the tech trap. >_<
GGs. =)
- Getting punishment down will be BIG! A lot were missed, but you know that. =(
- In the first set of vids, you seem to be back stepping quite a bit. Is there a reason for not wanting to be close to Cervy? It seems to get you in a lot of trouble. When you do get in close against Cervy, it seems like you're not sure what to do and you start resorting to safety (AA_BB) or dangerous lows (214A_iFC 3K). Later on you start applying pressure, but don't take it to the next level. i.e. You have Doc blocking FLE {B} and waiting patiently for the follow-up a:B+K. Use that to your advantage and take a free throw attempt. If he decides to start using TC moves, then iMCF or 3K are solid ways to stop anything he throws at you.
- You seem afraid to step against Cervy, who has few step killers. Why no sideways movement?
- You're not giving Doc a compelling reason to get up after you've knocked him down. You keep hunting for iFC 3K and iFC 1KKK (not always guaranteed on a roller. Depends on the situation) and you end up whiffing. Why not more 3B and 2K to force wake-up games on him? If you can force him to stand more often, things like T4 and ST3 become that much more powerful.
- I wouldn't call this "bad" per se, but Yoshi, imho, doesn't have any really strong ways to continue pressuring after 3B, a:B+K. Personally I'd just take the free 1B and then go from there.
The Good:
- Nice to see some RCCing going on in there, even though it's not connecting. Consider using 2K (on hit), into RCC iMCF and 2A (hit or block) into RCC iMCF. The frames are mostly in your favor.
- Your 44bB is very consistent. You're the only other Yoshi I know who is consistent with it in his combos.
- Great use of suicide.
One random note.
GGs. =)
docvizzo
[14] Master
Hey Furzy,
i think Hajime tries to give you wrong tips so that you wont get better than him.
PLEASE DO NOT FOLLOW ANY OF HIS TIPS :P
@Hajime
Thanks for your inputs, i would love to see one of your new matches against Hates...any chance?
i think Hajime tries to give you wrong tips so that you wont get better than him.
PLEASE DO NOT FOLLOW ANY OF HIS TIPS :P
@Hajime
Thanks for your inputs, i would love to see one of your new matches against Hates...any chance?
Furzy
The "almost-french" guy
First of all, thanks A LOT for the comments! I really appreciate it, since I don't really get any feedback on my matches usually. I really appreciate it :) Now let's get point to point...
Thanks again!
@Doc: No, I don't think he's afraid lol ^^ I just think we have a different style, still I love watching his videos! But I think I prefer DTN's simple style ;)
Yeah, I do :( So frustrating to see afterwards all the opportunities I miss! It's just not the same when I'm playing and when I'm watching my matches!
First match I always play crap :D I have to get into the match first so please ^^
The AA's are totally on purpose, Doc suggested i should do them more to stop him from throwing or spamming some slow mids, and he was right! I hit him a lot with A's last time we played, I really think it's a good way to interrupt since it has much more range than iMCF (which I can't pull consistently) and is still i11 which is pretty fast! I love iFC 3K and still think it's a must-have in his artillery. 214A... well it's very risky, I usually do it when I expect a throw, but you're right there, I really should use it less or at max range where it's less punishable.
Agreed, but then again, I'm not confident in my iMCF execution. 3K is pretty good but is very steppable on one side of yoshi so yeah, I hesitated a bit :/ I'll try and do better next time!
This is not Cervy specific ^^ I'm a bad stepper, but i'm actually trying to improve that!
Agreed on iFC 3K because the recovery is pretty bad. Disagree on iFC 1KKK! I love it, it puts the opponent on a good distance (66A+B afterwards) and the continuous hits usually annoy them! On the ground, I raaaarely use 3B since if the opponent gets up and ends up blocking it, i'm in deep shit :( 2K is good, I try to use it more!
Disagree, the ground slide is pretty good in my oppinion and I think I'll keep using it. I also wanted to try 3B, 2[A+B], FLE~66, I'll see how good it is.
I started training 2K, RCC iMCF but I think it's too hard to use in a real match, I'm not sure if I'll use it. We'll see! :)
Thanks! :)
Haha, one of his top-5 moves IMO
Yeah I saw it too afterwards lol Wasn't looking at the clock at that time >_<
Thanks again!
@Doc: No, I don't think he's afraid lol ^^ I just think we have a different style, still I love watching his videos! But I think I prefer DTN's simple style ;)
docvizzo
[14] Master
BTW we have to play this week, i think today and tomorrow after work i have to finish Assasins Creed 2, so maybe on Wednesday i can kick your ass?
Furzy
The "almost-french" guy
You can try, but you won't ;)
I'm seeing my girlfriend today so I can't play, but she'll be on holiday from tuesday till thurday, so we can play then :p
Forget Assassin's Creed lol there's no tournament of that :p Come tomorrow lazy geek ^^
I'm seeing my girlfriend today so I can't play, but she'll be on holiday from tuesday till thurday, so we can play then :p
Forget Assassin's Creed lol there's no tournament of that :p Come tomorrow lazy geek ^^
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
Since Hates hasn't been playing recently, he prefers to not be recorded, so you won't see any matches of us unless there's a tournament or something. I may be able to get some recorded matches in with Botsu (my brother) over the holiday, though. He has a decent Cervy.
Btw, some nice iGDR reactions there. You surprised me with a couple iGDRs from attacks that were definitely NOT combo starters.
Get those iMCFs down, and you may have to worry about throws or slow mids as much anymore. The threat of iMCF can force good Cervy's to turtle once they realize you're going to iMCF from anything. Then maybe Doc will start using bK (TJs iMCF) or 8K to avoid it and you can start playing mind games. hehe.
I love iFC 3K also, but I've restricted my usage to maximum range iFC 3Ks and only if I want to close distance. I do use it more often on some characters, but definitely not Cervy. I see it this way. Yoshi gets maybe 30ish damage and just okay wakes from iFC 3K, 2K while Cervy gets 40~50 damage and amazing wakes from WS A combos. Seems like a bad trade off to me. =(
Actually, even though it is steppable on one side, a slightly late 3K will catch steppers on either side. It sounds weird, but if you pause slightly when you're expecting the opponent to step, 3K will catch them. I learned this testing and playing against Hilde (Cedric). It's a great tool, but you can't just throw it out all crazy. a:B+K is also a great step killer. =)
Is Doc punishing your 3B consistently? If it's with iGDR, then I understand your caution. Still, if Doc insists on rolling like crazy, an occasional 3B will teach him to get up. hehe. I would definitely advise 2K more! And don't underestimate a good fake. If Doc is looking to punish your 3B, an occasional bG will trick him into getting up and then you have a couple options from there.
To each his own. =) One of the things I like about Yoshi. As for 3B, 2[A+B], FLE~6[6], I think the timing is hard or something? I know Lolo was testing something like that a while back ago.
Simple is definitely a good way to go. I just spent so much time on Yoshi that I know just about every usable tech trap, good iMCF setup, and wall combo he has. This gets me into trouble sometimes, because I over think my matches. Sometimes all it takes to win is FC 3K. FC 3K. 4KB. hahahah.
Furzy
The "almost-french" guy
you're right... but then I have to practice a little every what? 2-3 days so I don't lose the timing >_< don't have time for thaaaat! How good do you get iMCF? I'd say I'm around 6-7 out of 10 in a real match, but of course it depends how much time I had to warm up :p
Yeah, you're probably right, and it's true it's a great tool to get close. I'll try and use it mostly for that purpose.
Good to know, i'll try and use that too :)
haha, nice idea! ^^ didn't think about that. Ok ok, i'll try ground 3B a little more and give report :p
eh?? It's his easiest combo by far in my opinion :/ You sure we talk about the same thing??
QFT. Still, it's so satisfying whenever you play against a "normal" player (understand "not top-tier player) to mess up with their heads ^^
Nice feedback overall, thanks again pal! :)
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
I have a callus on my thumb from practicing. =) I am about 95% nowadays. I practiced quite a bit =/ I'm probably 90% on CH a:B+K, iMCF as well thanks to practice.
Heh, maybe I'm confused. I still prefer the standard 3B, a:B+K, 1B_66B. I guess it fits my play style better.
Belial
King of Hundred Swords
Oh shit! There was some super cool stuff in these vids. When Doc uses WS A backthrow for RO for example in the first vid. Or 6:25 %) Overall great stuff. Since I'm late to watch these and Hajime already gave all the tips...
Doc - I already post in frenchies forum so I only repeat this - stop spamming iTP it never does you any good! You waste a lot of opportunities to mix up or punish just to iTP. Even if you iGDR'ed instead it would probably serve you better =)
Doc - I already post in frenchies forum so I only repeat this - stop spamming iTP it never does you any good! You waste a lot of opportunities to mix up or punish just to iTP. Even if you iGDR'ed instead it would probably serve you better =)
docvizzo
[14] Master
Haha, you are right, i use it too much, im still searching for the right opportunities to use it, i have to explore it a bit more...but actually against Yoshi its pretty good, since it TJ FC 3K, 1KKK, iMCF etc...but overall i use it too much.
My biggest problem is that out of a habit i also TRY to use it against Ivy, Sieg and co. and of course this is super stupid.
I'll manage this till Cannes :P
My biggest problem is that out of a habit i also TRY to use it against Ivy, Sieg and co. and of course this is super stupid.
I'll manage this till Cannes :P
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
Furzy: More 3K! It also stops iTP! =)
Furzy
The "almost-french" guy
I'm working more on my stepping these days. We played yesterday, did a new First to 5 set, I'll try and post the video this evening. Doc also played against Cliff, another Swiss player, I'll post both videos.