Yoshimitsu Web Theater.

Furzy

The "almost-french" guy
Hey everyone, played yesterday against Cliff's Kilik (Swiss player) and got my ass kicked! I have no experience against Kilik, so if anybody has any tips or stuff against Kilik I'd be glad to hear them. :)

Also, I've been looking for some good vids of Yoshi VS Kilik but can't find anything. Got any links? HajimeOwari or lolo? Got any tips?

Thanks!
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NEW VIDS

22dec09 – First to 3
Furzy (Yoshimitsu) VS Bun (Mitsurugi): 3 - 0
Bun is our local Mitsurugi, not a bad player but he's been playing Tekken 6 too much those last weeks so I rolled over him :p


22dec09 – First to 3
Cliff (Kilik) VS Furzy (Yoshimitsu): 3 - 0
Got my ass kicked like I said... Cliff used to play Siegfried but he changed his main character lately for Kilik. I have close to no experience against Kilik so any advice is much appreciated.

 

Belial

King of Hundred Swords
Very nice Mitsurugi you have there! I though you dont have that much mitsu practice, but it seems I was wrong!
 

HajimeOwari

[11] Champion
Something's wrong with the Kilik match vid. Only 2/3 matches are showing up in the video. =(

General Kilik tips:

- Step, step, step. Kilik is extremely linear, especially when you get to mid range. Step and then use 33B

- Kilik cannot punish your 3B hard. The most he gets off a blocked 3B is 6AA. That means you rule the ground game against him. Use this to your advantage and play wake games with him.

- ABUSE 9B+K and its variations. ABUSE IT!!!. 9B+K is your way inside. I don't have any match videos to illustrate this, but 9B+K beats what "feels like" 70-80% of Kilik's major attacks. It is especially effective against WS B setups (if your opponent falls into a pattern for WS B like 2K, WS B or 2A, WSB). Just trust me. When you're mid range and you expect an attack coming, 9B+K!

- 9A+Bg is great for mid-longish range when you think Kilik will commit to something. Not as good as 9B+K, but it covers the range that 9B+K can't cover.

- Long range and short range are where you want to be. Kilik rules the mid range. Use stepping, 9B+K, and 9A+Bg to get inside as mentioned above.

- Learn to see 4B+K on sight and punish it with something that can TJ. FLE & DGF are great ways to go, but 8K and 9B+K are perfectly acceptable. You can try for a 50/50 with FC 3K or 4KB if you block Kilk's 4B+K, but the effectiveness will vary based on your opponent.

- Uh..punish Kilik's WS K with AA.

- You probably know what you can punish against him, so I won't go into that.

Good luck!
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Belial just fights dirty! I hope to get my rematch sometime. =/
 

Furzy

The "almost-french" guy
Something's wrong with the Kilik match vid. Only 2/3 matches are showing up in the video. =(
Wops! Fixed it, it should be ok now :) I edited the link in the post before.

- Step, step, step. Kilik is extremely linear, especially when you get to mid range. Step and then use 33B
Agree but his use of aA annoys me >_< in CH he gets a KD :/ But you're right, I'll try and step more!

- Kilik cannot punish your 3B hard. The most he gets off a blocked 3B is 6AA. That means you rule the ground game against him. Use this to your advantage and play wake games with him.
ok
- ABUSE 9B+K and its variations. ABUSE IT!!!. 9B+K is your way inside. I don't have any match videos to illustrate this, but 9B+K beats what "feels like" 70-80% of Kilik's major attacks. It is especially effective against WS B setups (if your opponent falls into a pattern for WS B like 2K, WS B or 2A, WSB). Just trust me. When you're mid range and you expect an attack coming, 9B+K!
Yeah I saw some Yoshis use that move a lot, I rarely do! I'll start to I think ^^ thx
- 9A+Bg is great for mid-longish range when you think Kilik will commit to something. Not as good as 9B+K, but it covers the range that 9B+K can't cover.
Already use this though I didn't on those last vids. Still good at the beggining of the round ^^
- Learn to see 4B+K on sight and punish it with something that can TJ. FLE & DGF are great ways to go, but 8K and 9B+K are perfectly acceptable.
He doesn't use it that much, but I'll try to go into FLE if I have the reflex since the TJ frames are earlier than in DGF.

- Uh..punish Kilik's WS K with AA.
ok
- You probably know what you can punish against him, so I won't go into that.
I think I do but if you see something big missing, just tell me. Thanks for the advice!

Belial just fights dirty! I hope to get my rematch sometime. =/
Agreed. I want my revenge too. :p
 

HajimeOwari

[11] Champion
9B+K also beats out bA. It's the ultimate anti-Kilik.

I thought the same way about using FLE over DGF in the past, but nowadays I prefer to just DGF. Maybe I'm lazy, but I think it makes dealing with lows easier. You don't have to worry about whether you're ducking and whether you're in neutral.

I think FLE really just comes into play when you're dealing with something like Amy's 3BA and the frames matter. You should be able to compensate for those 5 frames and deal with something like Kilk's 4B+K just by reaction, imo. Besides, if you duck Kilk's 4B+K as an early reaction and then want to TJ it, DGF is really your only option.
 

Furzy

The "almost-french" guy
you're right, the "8" input will probably help when i'm in the middle of the match. I'm curious to test how good 9B+K is really!

I'll be on a trip to grece for 10 days, so no new vids for the moment. :p See ya all and I wish you already a happy new year!
 

HajimeOwari

[11] Champion
Me vs. Botsu videos coming soon. =) Vids should benefit Furzy and DocVizzo for this match-up. You'll also see how annoying a consistent iGDR punish is. =(

Good trip, btw, Furzy?
 

Furzy

The "almost-french" guy
looking forward to the vids! Yup, good trip, still not over ^^ I'm in grece, going back to switzerland on 6th january :p

Happy new year btw!
 

funkpanda

[09] Warrior
I watched your vid against the Killik Furzy.
Somethings i noticed:

- I don't agree with Hajime's use of 3B unless you give him a reason to duck. Which means you need to throw more.

- More use of 2A. Tech crouches, catches steppers, AND its a frame trap.
- More use of 2K. Same as above minus the steppers.

-and more BB! This may sound weird but I've found that BB is also a frame trap in a way. The push back on block makes people want to do something slow to come back in.

- You should see how he reacts to frame traps, and if he knows all of em.
 

docvizzo

[14] Master
I normally know Yoshis Frame data quite good, because i made his Frame data :P

If im not wrong the good thing about BB is that i tracks to the opposite side than most of Yoshis moves, then again this doesnt annoy me too much since im not stepping at all :)

I guess i'll play furzy this week, maybe we'll upload one or two matches again..

@ Hajime

Im waiting for the Vids!
 

HajimeOwari

[11] Champion
- I don't agree with Hajime's use of 3B unless you give him a reason to duck. Which means you need to throw more.

Doh. I said that completely wrong. I meant to say, "3B is great against him when he's grounded because he can't punish you hard."
 

Furzy

The "almost-french" guy
funkpanda said:
- More use of 2A. Tech crouches, catches steppers, AND its a frame trap.
I'm not sure I understand, what do you mean it's a frame trap??
- More use of 2K. Same as above minus the steppers.
-and more BB! This may sound weird but I've found that BB is also a frame trap in a way. The push back on block makes people want to do something slow to come back in.
Thing is, I already have trouble getting in his range since Kilik has a lot of push-back on his moves ^^' About BB I wouldn't use it that much against kilik because of Asura, and I don't want to push him back, I want to get in!
- You should see how he reacts to frame traps, and if he knows all of em.
Again, what frame traps are you talking about? You mean tech traps? or iMCF traps?

Thanks for the comments! :)

@Docvizzo: I'm coming back to Geneva on wednesday. My girlfriend gets priority :p but I'll try and organize something this week-end. See ya!

@Hajime: Are the videos on the way? ^^
 

docvizzo

[14] Master
@Docvizzo: I'm coming back to Geneva on wednesday. My girlfriend gets priority :p but I'll try and organize something this week-end. See ya!

Boohhh....girlfriend...we need to TRAIN, Cannes is more important than Girls :P
 

funkpanda

[09] Warrior
I'm not sure I understand, what do you mean it's a frame trap??
Thing is, I already have trouble getting in his range since Kilik has a lot of push-back on his moves ^^' About BB I wouldn't use it that much against kilik because of Asura, and I don't want to push him back, I want to get in!
Again, what frame traps are you talking about? You mean tech traps? or iMCF traps?

Thanks for the comments! :)

@Docvizzo: I'm coming back to Geneva on wednesday. My girlfriend gets priority :p but I'll try and organize something this week-end. See ya!

@Hajime: Are the videos on the way? ^^

Yea when I talk about frame traps, im talking about iMCF traps.

And you shouldn't be worried about asura. It's launch punishable. Just block more if you see him trying to catch you with it. He'll learn his lesson.

And mostly i say to BB more because you didn't do it once. And he ducked you a lot. Thats missed damage, you never really gave him a reason to stand which would have given you a reason to throw.
 

Furzy

The "almost-french" guy
Yea when I talk about frame traps, im talking about iMCF traps.
I rarely have the distance for iMCF against Kilik, just like against Ivy. I think iMCF is great against some characters but not that good against others :)

And you shouldn't be worried about asura. It's launch punishable.
right, but it does lots of damage too! And I'd rather use 33B, but true, BB is easy as hell. I'll try and see if it can be useful!

And mostly i say to BB more because you didn't do it once. And he ducked you a lot. Thats missed damage, you never really gave him a reason to stand which would have given you a reason to throw.
That's just one vid ;) I'll upload some more soon!

Thanks again!
 

HajimeOwari

[11] Champion
Bad news. It's possible the FT10 I played with my bro is gone due to a mistake when copying files to/from the camera. =( We did record other matches, but they got silly and stupid and aren't worth uploading. Here's a 1K RO for your amusement.


1K, g8K by itself also ROs quite far.
 

grumpygrumpalot

[08] Mercenary
Here are some new videos of me playing with Yoshi.
09.01.2010
2nd Face (Cervantes) vs. Grumpy (Yoshimitsu) 3x ftf

16.01.2010
2nd Face (Astaroth) vs. Grumpy (Yoshimitsu) ftf

Against Asta I got literally smashed to the ground... throwbreaking isn't one of my strenghts, more of a weakness to be honest. And 2nd Face playing with arcade sticks means JF-throws galore... I was completely overwhelmed and didn't know what to do... many mistakes have been the result of this as can be seen. But better on to something positive, I have gotten a better feeling with the PS3 pad lately which lead the way to more imcfs (even though it may not be visible in these videos) and this added to my overall gameplay.
Oh yeah and another one of my weaknesses is punishment, docvizzo was nice enough to tell me so over at our german forum, but I just can't get a hold on this. I think I may lack experience here...
 

flask

[09] Warrior
good fights, grumpy! nice yoshi! and 2nd Face´s asta is pretty evil!
in my opinion yoshi shouldn´t have any problem with astaroth though. just study the matchup a bit more, make sure you nail those iMCF´s and all the frame traps for it, and mash your A and B buttons while guarding to throw break. :]
i think you should focus on quick stuff in this matchup, to force asta to rely a lot on GI`s.
iMCF, AA, 3K, A, 6A, BB, iMCF, B, 3K....
and use iFC3K/iFC4KB mixups as well, especially on wakeup. if you read your opponent correct, they shouldn´t even get off the ground when facing yoshi. ;D
a general note would be to set things up a bit more, mix it up and keep it unpredictable.
 

HajimeOwari

[11] Champion
The serious FT10 video footage between Botsu and I was lost during file copying, unfortunately. I do plan on capturing some more vids next weekend. I went ahead and uploaded some videos from our casual session when Botsu and I finally started getting our skills back. Note: Botsu is my brother, so we know each other's tactics inside and out.





Grumpy: GGs. Haven't had a chance to watch too many of your Cervy videos yet. I did see you block Cervy's BBB, which is super unsafe. Punish it with 6K2K.

- WS A is dangerous against Asta if he's paying attention. His BT B+K beats all your options and he can keep spamming it. Better to avoid using WS A if the Asta is on the ball.

- Asta can't heavily punish your 3B, meaning you can control the ground game. 2nd Face liked to stay grounded close up. Give him a reason to stand up and then you can force stronger mix-ups on him.

- Step and punish more. Asta is especially linear close up. Take advantage of that.

- You can't punish his bull rush. It does put him at major frame disadvantages, so use that to your advantage if he's spamming it.

- Asta has few ways to interrupt a well executed iMCF against safe moves on block (i.e. 6A, 22K, etc.).