bushindu
[11] Champion
IMO zwei is pretty nice, but I would like certain moves eg 44a to have more range, and moves like 99B BE to have a quicker recovery time out of the 99b
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I only played SCIV briefly, so i don't know any characters starting out in SCV. I wanted to use new characters, so i learned ZWEI. I've gotten good with ZWEI, and still lose a lot - sometimes i can't even stop someone when they're predictable. That's how unbalanced Zwei is. Anyone who says he is just fine is absolutely wrong. I feel he is the worst character in the game. As some would say, "Low Tier".I started SCV with ZWEI, and I had below a 20% win ratio. I switched to Nightmare, and now I'm winning 70% of my matches. The potential may be there for ZWEI, but he's a tough nut to crack IMO. I really wish he had a good low with decent range.
Either way, I'll probably invest some more time with him and make him a secondary after a while.
I only played SCIV briefly, so i don't know any characters starting out in SCV. I wanted to use new characters, so i learned ZWEI. I've gotten good with ZWEI, and still lose a lot - sometimes i can't even stop someone when they're predictable. That's how unbalanced Zwei is. Anyone who says he is just fine is absolutely wrong. I feel he is the worst character in the game. As some would say, "Low Tier".
He relies too heavily on EIN to make his moves safe, give him range, and give him mix-ups. Unfortunately EIN doesn't help his mix-ups much since he has no good lows. EIN just helps to make the opponent block and damage their guard gauge, ZWEI's only strength. He has no low mix-ups whatsoever and barely an okizeme game.
That's the main thing he needs is a good low or two that hits grounded. He's slow, considerably weak, predictable, unsafe, has little range, and lacks guaranteed damage. Most of his combos aren't guaranteed AND take a lot of meter. A lot of his guaranteed combos are only guaranteed on CH. No other character is that flawed. He is unbalanced and needs buffed.
Funny that you also bring up "honesty." I didn't even read your post when I was writing that. I had been testing stuff out for over 40 minutes ago when you made that post.He just dosen't seem like he has anything that can keep the other player "honest" like other characters can.
Well I disagree. I main him and i have played hundreds of matches with him and played offline a bit and I think he is not a near mid character. His lack of speed and his lack of punish with near to no Okizeme options put him at a bad level IMO. The only real thing he has for him is a high guard burst rate and hit confirming moves like his 33B(BE). I also dont think he should be changed other than maybe one more low. Playing Zwei is about outsmarting which is why i make great use of 6A+B(Which BTW works on siegs CE as long as the sword dosent hit you.)and sidestepping to wiff punish. His 1(B) is often thought of as not great because to many people follow it up with the K. Every Zwei I have ever fought complains he is slow and unsafe when the do the second halfs of chains that lead to damage but are unsafe all the time. People need to mix it up by not calling Ein every time or when you do 4(A) dont knife fiend B. Sorry for my little rant I am just mad at all the people who complain about zwei and dont know anything.(Although I still think he is not a great character)I'm a Yoshi main, but I've been playing ZWEI for a week or two now, and I plan to make him my tournament secondary. I don't play online scrubs, and focus my time on good players and strats that will work at the highest level of play.
With that said, I think ZWEI is solid. He's not top tier, but I think he's at least mid-tier. I think all of the complaining about how he's lacking and low tier is just people not taking the time to learn the character properly.
IMO, ZWEI is only missing two things to be upper-mid or so, and a third to be top tier.
To be Upper-Mid
- A safe, mid, horizontal attack.
- One decent low attack. It doesn't have to be safe, but it needs more range than 44A or more speed than 1A. Something along the lines of Yoshi's FC 3K would be fine.
To be Top Tier
- An Ein attack that hits low, or the ability to vary Ein's attacks instead of having them tied directly to specific ZWEI attacks.
You think he's not even near being mid-tier yet you don't think he needs to be buffed? Hmm. He definitely does need a really good low or two. You got that right. But how are you supposed to outsmart someone when you have no lows to create mixups? If you charge Ein even a little, you're likely to get interrupted. Charging Ein to create an unblockable attack with Knife Fiend B is way too risky. It's always better to not charge 4(A) when you use Knife Fiend B. Zwei needs faster recovery, if not more speed, to make his moves safe when Ein is charged.Well I disagree. I main him and i have played hundreds of matches with him and played offline a bit and I think he is not a near mid character. His lack of speed and his lack of punish with near to no Okizeme options put him at a bad level IMO. The only real thing he has for him is a high guard burst rate and hit confirming moves like his 33B(BE). I also dont think he should be changed other than maybe one more low. Playing Zwei is about outsmarting which is why i make great use of 6A+B(Which BTW works on siegs CE as long as the sword dosent hit you.)and sidestepping to wiff punish. His 1(B) is often thought of as not great because to many people follow it up with the K. Every Zwei I have ever fought complains he is slow and unsafe when the do the second halfs of chains that lead to damage but are unsafe all the time. People need to mix it up by not calling Ein every time or when you do 4(A) dont knife fiend B. Sorry for my little rant I am just mad at all the people who complain about zwei and dont know anything.(Although I still think he is not a great character)
I'm a Yoshi main, but I've been playing ZWEI for a week or two now, and I plan to make him my tournament secondary. I don't play online scrubs, and focus my time on good players and strats that will work at the highest level of play.
With that said, I think ZWEI is solid. He's not top tier, but I think he's at least mid-tier. I think all of the complaining about how he's lacking and low tier is just people not taking the time to learn the character properly.
IMO, ZWEI is only missing two things to be upper-mid or so, and a third to be top tier.
To be Upper-Mid
- A safe, mid, horizontal attack.
- One decent low attack. It doesn't have to be safe, but it needs more range than 44A or more speed than 1A. Something along the lines of Yoshi's FC 3K would be fine.
To be Top Tier
- An Ein attack that hits low, or the ability to vary Ein's attacks instead of having them tied directly to specific ZWEI attacks.
But it's not safe. He specified safe.3AA is a mid horizontal attack.
I don't mean to be rude or anything. I've only been in the community for SCIV. You don't have enough credibility with me just for me to take your word for it. Maybe I'm terribly mistaken, but the only ones claiming Zwei is good are no bodies. If Woahhzz came in here and said the same thing. I would be second guessing myself right now, but sorry I don't know who you "Zwei-is-good" guys are.With that said, I think ZWEI is solid. He's not top tier, but I think he's at least mid-tier. I think all of the complaining about how he's lacking and low tier is just people not taking the time to learn the character properly.
You realize that FC 3K is an unseeable low right right? You can't just say something like that either. You need to be a little bit more detailed. You can't just throw stuff at the wall and hope it's balanced. Will this low have a synergy with Ein? This is a big detail.IMO, ZWEI is only missing two things to be upper-mid or so, and a third to be top tier.
To be Upper-Mid
- A safe, mid, horizontal attack.
- One decent low attack. It doesn't have to be safe, but it needs more range than 44A or more speed than 1A. Something along the lines of Yoshi's FC 3K would be fine.
To be top tier? Don't you mean fucking broke?To be Top Tier
- An Ein attack that hits low, or the ability to vary Ein's attacks instead of having them tied directly to specific ZWEI attacks.
Well I disagree. I main him and i have played hundreds of matches with him and played offline a bit and I think he is not a near mid character. His lack of speed and his lack of punish with near to no Okizeme options put him at a bad level IMO.
Yeah but 3aa isnt safe.
Truthfully, zwei could be decent with just a bit of safety. He doesnt really need a low. If only a+b was safe and 3b was less unsafe. And maybe 4kb
Like I said, after fighting ppl who recognize his moves and strings and know when to properly duck/block and punish, you'll start to see that there are not many options with Zwei, added to the fact he lacks range, and his EIn(delays) arent rlly great mixups at all.
I don't mean to be rude or anything. I've only been in the community for SCIV. You don't have enough credibility with me just for me to take your word for it. Maybe I'm terribly mistaken, but the only ones claiming Zwei is good are no bodies. If Woahhzz came in here and said the same thing. I would be second guessing myself right now, but sorry I don't know who you "Zwei-is-good" guys are.
Sounds like it's more likely than not, you're a stronger player than me. But I still don't know enough about you. I haven't seen you play for one thing.I'm old, so my tournament prime has long since passed. But I took top 8 in every Tekken 5 arcade national qualifier I attended (four of them). All of those tournaments were capped at 128 and most hit cap. Just about every known top Tekken player was at those back in the day. Not trying to brag or anything, just saying that I'm not some random who plays online all the time and thinks scrub tactics work at majors.
I'm nobody. I don't expect my opinion alone to really have any weight behind it, but I'm trying to be objective here.For the record, I don't know who you are either. ^_^
This.Truthfully, zwei could be decent with just a bit of safety.
I'm going to try a different angle. What do you think his worst and best match ups are?
There are just some things that don't make much sense. For instance, I still cannot understand why his 3B is that unsafe. Does it lead to that high damaging combos that other characters' 3Bs don't? Does it have that great range? Does it have any special properties (TC for example)?
But it's not safe. He specified safe.
3AA is negative four (-4) on block. Only way its not safe is if they duck the second hit (and its a natural combo too).
Ok, if he doesn't need a low, what do you use when your opponent is blocking high? You have no options but to continue to attack high. He's predictable and extremely disadvantaged against characters with low mixups like Maxi, Pyrrha, and Xiba. Actually he's disadvantaged against everyone.Yeah but 3aa isnt safe.
Truthfully, zwei could be decent with just a bit of safety. He doesnt really need a low. If only a+b was safe and 3b was less unsafe. And maybe 4kb
A+B is safe against some characters. I haven't gone into the lab to determine exactly who can punish it, but it's a whiff punisher anyway. That's like asking for Feng's shoulder in Tekken to be safe. If it's getting blocked, I'm of the mindset that you're using it wrong... or playing online where it's harder to whiff punish.