Serpent's Embrace Tips

Ever fought one of those people that can shake SE A and GI the 236A? Fun stuff. I seriously try not to use this stance now.
 
I think that's only possible if they saw it coming. That's ungodly reaction time right there if it wasn't expected.
 
T-Licious said:
So, how do I modify SE B+K so that it picks prone people off the ground, please?
Click to expand...

You mean something like 0:39 of this video?

For SE B+Ks and WP B+Ks, counter hit is required.
You may check this by setting the counter hit options in the training mode.
(see 0:11 of the same video)
 
crudea said:
You mean something like 0:39 of this video?

For SE B+Ks and WP B+Ks, counter hit is required.
You may check this by setting the counter hit options in the training mode.
(see 0:11 of the same video)
Click to expand...

I mean exactly what is shown at 0:39 and thank you for sharing a nice video.

I'm don't understand 'counter hit is required' in this case, though. Apologies in advance but I come from VF where a counter hit is a hit that strikes the opponent first while they are attacking. What is a counter hit in SC, and how would a SC counter hit be meaningful against a prone opponent who is not doing anything?

Thanks in advance for clearing me up on this, I am committed to taking my Ivy to the next level and appreciate your time.
 
T-Licious said:
I mean exactly what is shown at 0:39 and thank you for sharing a nice video.

I'm don't understand 'counter hit is required' in this case, though. Apologies in advance but I come from VF where a counter hit is a hit that strikes the opponent first while they are attacking. What is a counter hit in SC, and how would a SC counter hit be meaningful against a prone opponent who is not doing anything?

Thanks in advance for clearing me up on this, I am committed to taking my Ivy to the next level and appreciate your time.
Click to expand...

There's two types of counter hits. Stun counter hits and Attack counter hits.

Stun counter hits are what usually happens when using a relaunch of SE 2B+K/WP 2B+K. This happens when a move puts the opponent in either a stun or a crumble (almost being grounded) and thus, when he/she gets hit by 2B+K or its variants, they get relaunched.

Attack counters are when 2B+K or its variants hit the opponent while they're attacking, which is what you're referring to.
 
Serpents Embrace :B:::6::B:::4::B:::6::B:::4::B:
Damage: 60
Soul Gauge: 18, breaks on the 4th.
Block Frames: -16

I would like a decent discussion of this move, I will place my reasons, and update the Pro Con list as it's continued.

After a long time of working for it, have gotten this move to a consistancy and I am comfortable using it. I feel I no longer need to mash :B::B::B:.
What I have noticed however, is that this game considers this move to be a joke!

Pros -
60 Damage.
Fear Factor.
Soul Gauge Damage.
Ring Out on the 5th Hit at the Edge.

Cons -
Only 60 Damage.
No Guard Crush.
Little Soul Gauge Damage!
Damage Scaling.
No Room For Error. (4 Hits deal 4 less damage than the 3 hit, with no Knock Down.)
UNSAFE!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright, I know this more than likely belongs in the Serpents Embrace Tips thread, however this move has always been the final peak for all Ivy players to master due to it's required practice, and precision. It's also her only other JF attack. So I feel it deserves it's own discussion.

So, to address MY con list, I feel that 60 Damage is not a terribly weak number by any means, however what we need to do in order to pump out that 60 damage is just sickening. Cassandra MASHABLE :4::B::B:::A: = 55 Damage, and lets not even get started on Sophitia, or Astaroth. My point basically, other characters barely need to work for the same amount of damage. Other characters Just Frames lead to heavy damage, Frame Advantage, and deathly Combo potential (Setsuka). Out Just Frames end our opponent on the floor with no room for extra damage beyond a :2::K:.
The amount of time that goes into mastering this move is insane, maybe I am just horrible at the input, but I practiced it quite a bit, and only now can do it with any confidence in my consistancy. It's amazing that I can do it, but the reward for my efforts don't seem to be all that rewarding. The move suffers greatly from the damage scaling system. If I hit my opponent with WP :3::3::Bh: I can follow that up with a 5 Hit Combo, a 3 hit Combo, or I can wait for them to get back up for a Mixup from SE. IF I Choose to use the 5 Hit, they take LESS damage than a Standing 5-Hit Even if armor is broken. This also makes followups from SE :K: far less rewarding. Now I understand how powerful it would be if the move was granted full damage potential, however the requirements to pull it off just don't justify the output, given that it's UNSAFE! With the lack of a Guard Crush from SC3, the move used on it's own is likely to get you punished.
I can be very happy if I use the attack and get it off flawlessly a few times after getting into Serpents Embrace, the beneift is the Mixup game for SE :A:::2::3::6::A: along with SE :A:+:K:. But due to the feeble Gauge damage this move offers, I don't see why opponents should fear it comming at all. a Standing Guard can duck on reaction to flames, and to :A:+:K: All other isntances, Ivy will be Unsafe while performing a Mid hit or string.
I would not have any room for ranting about this if this attack had more incentive, Reduced Scaleing damage, Higher Gauge damage, or at least a Guard Crush, but with no other benefits aside from looking like a Strobe light I don't see why the game doesn't just make the whole thing mashable.

So, can anyone shed any new light on this move?
 
I really love this move, but my lack of consistency with it is what keeps me from doing it. One day I do it without a hitch, the other I struggle. Timing is my big problem with this move.
 
It feels random. I get the impression that the timing differs a little bit when performing this crap on standing opponent (easier) and in combos (harder). Maybe it's just me, because I don't practice this move like crazy, since it sucks so much... I still can get it most of the time (even online. I close my eyes when doing it) My guess is that Namco decided to "tone it down" after seeing how Ivy players abused it on SC3 AE (it was guaranteed after every launch for serious damage. In console you could escape/block)

SC3 AE 5hit> SC3 5hit > SC2 5 hit > SC4 5 hit =(

edit: I forgot to add... there's also HD TV lag issue. Everytime I play on HD tv there's a small lag that prevents me from doing 5 hit consitently.
 
I think the issue with TV lag is reliance on your eyes. Every TV will be slightly different, so you need to get the attack timing down, not the animation timing.

I like hearing g8b combos with it, so that gives it a few more points on the stand alonw 5-Hit, however with damage scaling, I can only see that adding 1 or 2 more points of damage.
 
ZDamned said:
Serpents Embrace :B:::6::B:::4::B:::6::B:::4::B:
Damage: 60
Soul Gauge: 18, breaks on the 4th.
Block Frames: -16

I would like a decent discussion of this move, I will place my reasons, and update the Pro Con list as it's continued.

After a long time of working for it, have gotten this move to a consistancy and I am comfortable using it. I feel I no longer need to mash :B::B::B:.
What I have noticed however, is that this game considers this move to be a joke!

Pros -
60 Damage.
Fear Factor.
Soul Gauge Damage.
Ring Out on the 5th Hit at the Edge.

Cons -
Only 60 Damage.
No Guard Crush.
Little Soul Gauge Damage!
Damage Scaling.
No Room For Error. (4 Hits deal 4 less damage than the 3 hit, with no Knock Down.)
UNSAFE!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright, I know this more than likely belongs in the Serpents Embrace Tips thread, however this move has always been the final peak for all Ivy players to master due to it's required practice, and precision. It's also her only other JF attack. So I feel it deserves it's own discussion.

So, to address MY con list, I feel that 60 Damage is not a terribly weak number by any means, however what we need to do in order to pump out that 60 damage is just sickening. Cassandra MASHABLE :4::B::B:::A: = 55 Damage, and lets not even get started on Sophitia, or Astaroth. My point basically, other characters barely need to work for the same amount of damage. Other characters Just Frames lead to heavy damage, Frame Advantage, and deathly Combo potential (Setsuka). Out Just Frames end our opponent on the floor with no room for extra damage beyond a :2::K:.
The amount of time that goes into mastering this move is insane, maybe I am just horrible at the input, but I practiced it quite a bit, and only now can do it with any confidence in my consistancy. It's amazing that I can do it, but the reward for my efforts don't seem to be all that rewarding. The move suffers greatly from the damage scaling system. If I hit my opponent with WP :3::3::Bh: I can follow that up with a 5 Hit Combo, a 3 hit Combo, or I can wait for them to get back up for a Mixup from SE. IF I Choose to use the 5 Hit, they take LESS damage than a Standing 5-Hit Even if armor is broken. This also makes followups from SE :K: far less rewarding. Now I understand how powerful it would be if the move was granted full damage potential, however the requirements to pull it off just don't justify the output, given that it's UNSAFE! With the lack of a Guard Crush from SC3, the move used on it's own is likely to get you punished.
I can be very happy if I use the attack and get it off flawlessly a few times after getting into Serpents Embrace, the beneift is the Mixup game for SE :A:::2::3::6::A: along with SE :A:+:K:. But due to the feeble Gauge damage this move offers, I don't see why opponents should fear it comming at all. a Standing Guard can duck on reaction to flames, and to :A:+:K: All other isntances, Ivy will be Unsafe while performing a Mid hit or string.
I would not have any room for ranting about this if this attack had more incentive, Reduced Scaleing damage, Higher Gauge damage, or at least a Guard Crush, but with no other benefits aside from looking like a Strobe light I don't see why the game doesn't just make the whole thing mashable.

So, can anyone shed any new light on this move?
Click to expand...


This move is crap, only for flash. SE in general is crap, no real mixup as long as you can shake SE A236A and react to A+K.
 
I was learning this move, but I just found it not worth it. BBB is nearly as good and much more reliable. Unless you HAVE to have that damage, I see no real reason to take the risk. I would never use this move competitively even if I was good at it simply because I fear missing one step. If the move did more damage or had new properties I would certainly learn and use it...but as is it's just a real nifty show off tactic.
 
i can get it once in a while but it aint worth the effort to be able do it consistently...as far as "difficult" moves in the game (JF's and others like FOTD) this may be the least helpful
 
This move is especially inconsistent to do on a 360 controller
where a 4 or a 6 could be read as a 1 or a 9
lol
stupid microsoft
 
What I noticed about this move is that the timing is a little different for the stances—or moves—that Ivy completes before we input the commands for the 5-hit. I noticed this in SC3 as well. I thought that it was my imagination, and I even tried to solicit the opinion of other players about it (who weren’t Linkrkc and Ring—mistake, lol). I know this sounds odd, and I don’t have any statistical evidence to support my claim, but I think it’s a legitimate hypothesis nonetheless. For some odd reason, it seems as though that it is easier to perform the 5-hit when Ivy is already in WP. That is, try WP 33B~SE~5-hit. It seems much easier to do than CL214 B~SE~5-hit. I don’t know why this is the case, but, for me, I have noticed a definite difference in terms of the completion of the 5-hit when in different stances. The 5-hit was always easier to execute from a move in WP than from SW (SW66K~5-hit for SC3) in the last game—the same WP33B, btw.

When Ivy is in WP, it seems as though the buffer window for the inputs seem a bit more lenient than when she is not. This was the case for me in SC3 as well. Perhaps the window for the input is a bit wider—sort of like it is easier to buffer SS in WP than CS in SW. While I’m not a programmer or anything of the sort, and it's complete conjecture on my part, but I think there has to be a connection between the two things. Perhaps there is something in the code that makes Ivy’s inputs in WP easier for SS, but since the language may not be super sophisticated and, as a result, she operates in WP similarly in many aspects of WP stance—a la the JF 5-hit. So in terms of the timing, I think the 5-hit may seem to be somewhat elusive because I sincerely believe that it is easier to perform in certain stances than others.

I understand what players are saying about whether or not it’s worth it to learn the move or, more importantly, if it’s worth the risk to execute in an actual match. I don’t think the answer to that question is as rhetorical as it seems.

I think everyone is right when he says that there is high-risk and relatively low-reward with this difficult move to perform (and ironically enough, it is much easier to perform in this version than in any other version of the game). But I don’t think that this move is about the damage-reward per se. Yes, it is flashy, but I think therein lays the importance of the move. If player can rip those inputs off in a match and, even better, strike an opponent with each of the whip strikes, then the psychological damage that this does to a opponent is significant.

A JF 5-hit does not happen by accident—even if a player is only able to get the move off three out of ten times. The JF5-hit has almost the same psychological impact on an opponent as it always had. Almost every time I do it, especially against players that I have never played before, the reaction is almost always: nice or wow. They say that because they know the difficulty of the move and when to use it in a match appropriately, and because they know that it was not by accident, every time an Ivy player goes into SE, and starts the 5-hit, the opponents have to consider that the 5-hit is coming. Even if the opponent knows that the Ivy player doesn’t have a high rate of success, the opponent has to consider that it’s coming anyway, and he has his own risk/reward issues to work out for himself. Believe me, it’s great to start the 5-hit, watch an opponent race in after the third strike, and get hit with whatever comes next—especially if it’s the next two hits. From personal experience, I have made even very skilled players stop dead in their tracks with just using three strikes of the JF and that is the impact (no pun intended) that we are looking for. I have watched monsters like Voldo and Cassandra (no--not Hilde--nothing can stop Hilde, lol) come to a complete hault of their onslaught when I have started the 5-hit. They stop, and I know that I’m not finishing the move—whether it’s because I have purposely stopped the inputs or I’m a screw-up. And as a result, I have made them eat something next that they would not have (like a CL A+B mix-up). Of course, being proficient enough at the command is necessary for this to happen.

But just like CS/SS, I think the knowledge that the 5-hit may be coming is enough to make an opponent react in a way that may be favorable to Ivy players. It's something to think about anyway...
 
350z said:
the opponent has to consider that it’s coming anyway, and he has his own risk/reward issues to work out for himself. Believe me, it’s great to start the 5-hit, watch an opponent race in after the third strike, and get hit with whatever comes next—especially if it’s the next two hits.
Click to expand...

After blocking the third strike but even anticipating the fourth or fifth, isn't there enough time to judge that the fourth and/or fifth strike simply will not happen based on the JF accuracy required of the Ivy player?

I think that's the main weakness of this move even with the psych games you're proposing. It's a gamble to assume your opponent isn't quick enough to capitalize on the "Oh the 4th/5th hit is not coming let me punish" mentality. Moreso to think they'll be hasty to assume the 4th hit will never happen and just rush in after blocking the 3rd. It might be worth it if your opponent was BT to ring edge but elsewhere you could be looking at the damage from my sig or even a Hilde plane ticket.
 
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