Serpent's Embrace Tips

I must totally agree with 350z here.
I was playing a brand new player in the community, and using a D-Pad (I can get it almost 100% on a D-Pad, 80%~ on my Stick) with the sole purpose of getting the 5-Hit off, while at the same time training this player to punish a consistent over used attack. (214B) At first, I missed after the 3rd hit, roughly 4 times in a row (This was 1 month ago at the least) and then, the player ran in consistently anticipating my wiffs, only to be struck down by the 4th and the 5th. Now, this player NEVER walks in until I stop for at least 20 frames. IE Human Reaction to the move failing.
I consider this the moves only true PRO, and it lies under Fear Factor. 350z also hit the nail on the head with saying getting this move off is NO ACCIDENT. True players will understand just how dedicated, and practiced you are if you can pull it off, and that in it self says something about the Ivy player.
BTW: I don't think the move is easier to pull off in this game than it used to be, I believe that with the inclusion of the Flashing JFs, everyone has a new benchmark to continue the inputs from. It's a marker that stands out MUCH easier than watching the ground, or looking at where her arm is. Then I would go as far as to say, how many of us have been paying Ivy since SC2? I only now got this move down, not for lack of trying either. (Yeah, I'm that bad) But I feel player skill over all in the community has grown.
 
350z/ZDamned, please pardon my ignorance but are you guys saying that for this psych game to work, you'd consistently do the first 3 hits as JF and then stop purposely, mixing that up with doing the full 5? Because if the first 3 hits didn't flash to indicate JF, wouldn't skilled opponents know that the 4th & 5th hit is impossible? Here's how I'd think as a blocking opponent (anyone please reply if there's any technical errors in my logic)

  • [Ivy starts 5 hit chain but first 3 don't JF] - Hit 4 and 5 are impossible so rush in punish
  • [Ivy starts chain with first 3 JF and then stops intentionally] - Anything goes because it's a race of who can react first, the Ivy player after unsafe recovery or the opponent realizing the delay and trying to react.
  • [Ivy starts chain with first 4 JF and opponent anticipating the 5th JF] - See previous
  • [Ivy completes 5 hit JF] - Opponent blocks all and punishes
Assuming these are correct, are we assuming this strategy to take the 2nd and 3rd scenarios and hope for the opponent to rush in?
 
LunarAura said:
350z/ZDamned, please pardon my ignorance but are you guys saying that for this psych game to work, you'd consistently do the first 3 hits as JF and then stop purposely, mixing that up with doing the full 5? Because if the first 3 hits didn't flash to indicate JF, wouldn't skilled opponents know that the 4th & 5th hit is impossible? Here's how I'd think as a blocking opponent (anyone please reply if there's any technical errors in my logic)

  • [Ivy starts 5 hit chain but first 3 don't JF] - Hit 4 and 5 are impossible so rush in punish
  • [Ivy starts chain with first 3 JF and then stops intentionally] - Anything goes because it's a race of who can react first, the Ivy player after unsafe recovery or the opponent realizing the delay and trying to react.
  • [Ivy starts chain with first 4 JF and opponent anticipating the 5th JF] - See previous
  • [Ivy completes 5 hit JF] - Opponent blocks all and punishes
Assuming these are correct, are we assuming this strategy to take the 2nd and 3rd scenarios and hope for the opponent to rush in?
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4th and 5th are the key. Ivy at this point in my game will always be flashing, I no longer mash BBB.
Lets put it this way, Lets say you faced off against a player who for 2 matches in a row, just ran up to you and hit B, not BB, but B. It burns into your memory, that he won't finish that move. after a while, you'll get used to it, and start to react accordingly. You will see a B, block it, and start to attack as fast as you can to try a punisher. Well next thing you know, he hits you with the 2nd B, since it's NC, and your hit in the face.
It's that simple. Not that it works more than once, but how often do we want to realistically land this move per match?
 
LunarAura: Sorry it took me so long to get back to you (I don't check the boards as much as I used to, but I'm trying to change that). Anyway, let me get to it:

Lol. I have taken plenty of rides on the Siggy Express and have racked up quite a few frequent-flyer miles on Hilde air…

Of course the 5-hit is a gamble—inasmuch as many of the high-risk moves are, but many players will try to use this move when there is a very high probability of success (striking the opponent, catching the opponent in a mix-up, or not being punished). But you would be very surprised at just how many players are, indeed, not quick enough or probably close enough to react to what I set forth (remember, the SE~BBB and JF5-hit push the opponent back a little). We don’t necessarily disagree—or should I say that where there seems to be a disagreement between us is in a very narrow place. Yes, if a player is fast enough and guesses right, then the Ivy player is going to take damage. But the idea is to take advantage of the opponent’s hasty generalization or, more accurately, his aggression—especially if the opponent doesn’t think that the Ivy player has the requisite skill to pull off the 5-hit. What I am saying here is that if an Ivy player can demonstrate that he can perform the move at all, then each subsequent time that he attempts the move, the opponent must take into consideration that the 5-hit is coming and must defend accordingly.

As for your points:
* [Ivy starts 5 hit chain but first 3 don't JF] - Hit 4 and 5 are impossible so rush in punish

--I’m not talking about this scenario, so yeah, step in and knock yourself out…

* [Ivy starts chain with first 3 JF and then stops intentionally] - Anything goes because it's a race of who can react first, the Ivy player after unsafe recovery or the opponent realizing the delay and trying to react.

--This is one of the scenarios I am talking about here. If the opponent knows that the Ivy player is capable of the JF5-hit, the opponent should continue to guard for a fraction of a second longer because he doesn’t know that the 4th hit is coming. It’s during this time that the Ivy player has to take advantage of the split second before the opponent realizes what is coming or what isn’t coming…

* [Ivy starts chain with first 4 JF and opponent anticipating the 5th JF] - See previous

--Same for me, lol…


* [Ivy completes 5 hit JF] - Opponent blocks all and punishes

--This is always a possibility…with any move. But for this to happen, you have to guard each of the WP strikes, obviously, and, again, this is what I’m talking about.


The next scenario is that the Ivy player begins the 5-hit just out of range of the opponent, but within punishing distance. The opponent sees that Ivy is starting the JF, but believes that the player is not going (or does not have the ability) to finish it, so the opponent steps in right after the third hit, assuming that the 4th hit is not coming. And as a result, he is struck down with the 4th hit (and, hopefully, the 5th hit, too). This is when the psychological impact (again, no pun) is at its greatest because the next time the Ivy player begins the JF5-hit, the opponent would have to seriously consider that it’s coming again, and guard for as long as possible—looking for the opportunity to punish afterwards. It is at this time those things that I mentioned earlier come into play. I hope I have communicated properly what I meant.

Anyway, I completely give that the move probably has more negative aspects than positive ones; however, just because that may be the case, I don’t think the move isn’t worth learning or applying in matches.
 
Points are crystal clear. Thanks guys. I especially understand 350z's added scenario because I've fallen victim to it lol.
 
Also consider the character your facing. If they have a good punish game and they're in range...don't even try it. If they're tip range and have a very narrow punish time...maybe go for it.
 
May be you know how can i change SE into SW mode without using ivy low attack ? I want to make combo with SE K, SW 44B. Any tips ? Thx
 
The SE A236A thing that everyones mentioning...is that the UB high out of the SE followed by that combo that ends with Ivy facing backwards and pulling her whip like she's a bodybuilder? Need confirmation please because I'm finally starting to not get my ass completely handed to me all the time by Ivy players.

So the deal with SE...the reason players like nofacekiller hate it...is at high level play it just becomes ineffective? What's the options with Ivy, I think Soraky went over this on gfaqs but I've gotten alot better since then...

Ivy's 3 whip slashes in SE(I think it's BBB?) there all mids that have to be blocked, but don't they push back to where even if it is at disadvantage, it's still completely safe right? Is the third hit GIable? Is there anyway to beat this move more?

The A+K low that throws is easy enough to see coming, and then there's the wierd hook B+K thingy that I never see anyone do right after a 214B.....so really, you can completely shut down SE with decent reaction time?
 
BelovedChild said:
Ivy's 3 whip slashes in SE(I think it's BBB?) there all mids that have to be blocked, but don't they push back to where even if it is at disadvantage, it's still completely safe right? Is the third hit GIable? Is there anyway to beat this move more?
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6BB from raph can punish it consistantly , so just block it.

The problem is online obviously, where somehow a follow-through 214 seems to sidestep everything :)
 
thought you meant the SE A+B UB, lol that is a mid...A236A is a high (last night msg).

A236A should only be used VERY rarely. it's hard to shake but if it is you get punished pretty bad. SE is pretty unsafe all around. BBB is safe to some characters but raph can annihilate it on block. 66K is our safest move and it's not that safe.

SE is more of an online thing or when your sure your following up a CH.
 
The main risk is A236A is that the first A can be ducked or stepped. Aside from that she wont get punished on hit. If they dont preshake early enough they cannot even gain advantage to poke out of 236A. With 236A is only -3 on block. The only danger is someone like Hilde's C3 or someone who can aGi horizontal mids. The other problem is that after 236A, ivy if forced to stay in WP so she couldnt fully take advantage of -3 on block.
 
God i hope a 1.04 makes SE better. i find it unfair how unsafe it is. We should at least get blocking out of it quicker or something.
 
U mean CH SE 66K> into SW?

Its a shakeable stun and the main mids the connects fastest would be SW 1KB and 66A. I wouldnt consider 44B, as its really slow.
 
This stance is sooo bad. It sucks because I want an option after I hit them with 214. They either need to make the unblockable unshakeable, or give her back her command throws...this is seriously 50+ damage we're potentially losing each round(depending on circumstances).
 
You can always G out, on hit it's safe. Unless.... Against Sophy, I believe 214 - K ties with her for a trade. ON HIT!
 
I think I found another use for this move.

CH SW 44A, CL 4B -> SE 5hit

Normally it combos for approx 85dmg but if you delay 5 hit a little bit it will become a techtrap to all directions (due to its tracking) and will do almost 120dmg.
 
I think the ONLY time this move is justified is when going for a ground hit. If it hits they can't punish you if screw up an input ( i think).

Unless you're a machine with it it's not worth it and the damage scaling is a factor that makes it not fun for combos.
 
MrCerebellum said:
how do you get into SE from CL 4B. Do you mean CL 214B?
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Nope, just buffer in A+B on the last 5-ish frames of CL 4B to go directly into SE.

Also, as far as the timing of this move goes, the 5th hit comes slightly faster than the rest of the hits. So by the time you see the 4th hit ending, you should've inputted the 5th hit by then.
 
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