The "How I would patch SCIV" Thread

IvyFanboy

IvyFanboy

[11] Champion
How would you nerf the Hilde/Algol and buff Yoda/Seong Mi-na/Rock/Tira in 1.04 patch to balance things out?

My suggestions:

Algol: Make the orbs cause no hit stun and inflict decent soul damage. They can still be used in combos but will only add damage. The added SG damage will force people to either take a small amount of life or risk CHs...but without the fear of hit stun to be hit by a follow up. It may be odd to have a move that deals no hitstun, but i think it would be an interesting change, and the SG damage can make up for the nerf.

Hilde: Simply cut where certain part of the doom combo can connect. She should still have great RO...just not the whole damn combo. Have a midway point that is not a guaranteed. C2 BB C2AA should still work.

Yoda: Make moves safer. Hard to tweek him without making him broke...simply a few frame stat changes would probably be all thats needed.

Tira: ???

Rock: ???

Seong Mi-na: Work around the tip range concept. Tip range should cause greater stun time. This would vastly improve her ONLY when she is properly spaced. Allowing for new combos and safer moves.
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

Seong Mi-na's 44AA and 6A+B should at least combo on counterhit. Tira needs better frames and damage or something. Algol should be left untouched, he is perfectly fine. Just because you think he is S tier, doesn't mean Namco agrees. A nerf to Hilde's doom combo would be nice (no relaunch on C2BB or something).
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

instead of C2BB relaunching, it should just fling you away....
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

I'm a sucker for these. Generally speaking Im a bigger fan of buffing the low tiers rather than nerfing the top tiers; so I'll focus on that.

Rock: 66B Hits grounded. 4B hits mid but leaves no ground throw options. 3A stun non-shakeable. A-button Command Throw to allow him to threaten the B command throw. 214A:A:A last hit not GIable (wtf is the point otherwise, its already like over 30 frames in execution. 3(K) hold properties mean something other than just a delay. The list could go on. I don't want all of these things, just a couple of them would suffice.

Mina: Clean up hitboxes. Make 3B safer. AAB should knd on CH or give signifigant frame adv. Up her damage slightly.

Taki: A low or throw option out of PO. Some characters can just plain smoke her in PO (cass comes to mind). Some options into PO suck, even on hit (4A anyone?) Make those a bit better frame-wise, imo.

Tira: I enjoy the random stance changing, but a health costing, guaranteed stance change buffer command would be nice.

Thats all for now assuming this thread isnt locked.

-Idle
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

Idle, while I like your Idea for a Command A throw, personally I think he needs an Air throw more than that. His anti jump game isn't actually that good. either an air throw, or anti air move that guarantees a ground throw. Heck the air throw could be something like 28A+G and he grabs them by the foot and spins them around before releasing them. Give him a reverse Ring out option on 2B+G :p. Heck it could be like a fake PT, 214A+G. He does the start up for PT but then cancels into A throw, or air throw if airborne.
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

make algol's just frame bubble kinda hard like mitsu's 236B which you have to hold for a middle time inbetween full and no charge give song mina a jf or command throw make taki have a GB out of posession that give a free AA on block
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

I think for Hilde, they need to stop making her stuff air controllable more; you would still get the first few hits, but then the air control would kick in. As well, her Charge As need to not have so much advantage. Her C3A tech-crouches, is advantage, is unstepable, is uber fucking fast, doesn't telegraph at all AND it auto-GIs. Either get rid of its auto-GI, or make it -2-3 on block or something; her C2A should be -4-6 on block.

That, or make her A charges double over stun, instead of rocket stun.
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

Whelp, I don't see a patch coming anytime soon, but if this were a perfect world...

Rock:
-Make 4B mid
-Fix 1K -> ground grab and 4K -> crouch grab strings so they...uh...work.
-Fix 2B+G alignment issues.
-Make B+K guaranteed after CH 44BB
-Give him an air throw. Something that doesn't do much damage, but gives good tech traps/oki.

Tira:
-JS 66B should hit grounded.
-If she's going to lose life, the damage of her combos shouldn't be scaled so severely.
-Make GS 44B cancelable.
-Replace 3A with a move worth using.
-Buff SG damage a little.

Zas
-Make A+B NC and/or autoGI horizontals.
-Make 66BB and 6AB truly delayable.
-More damage on NH for moves like 66B+K, 4K, 33B, 66A, and 44B.
-Give b:K the stun it has in combos on regular CH.
-2B+K needs better frames.

Algol:
I dunno really, maybe nerf is backdash a little? Maybe take away some of his more ridiculous bubble combos.

Hilde:
I'd say leave the doom combo in, just take away her frame advantage on blocked charges and make C3B track 0% to both sides.
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

Qshimitsu said:
I'd say leave the doom combo in, just take away her frame advantage on blocked charges and make C3B track 0% to both sides.
Click to expand...

No reason to nerf her C3B... when I eat the C3B, I KNOW that its MY fault. Its as fuck to step.
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

Funny how I play the 3 characters everyone wants to beef up.

Rock- 4B should knockdown on normal hit. That's enough for me. If you want do some more, make 6A the same speed as Asta's 6A and 66B have faster recovery.

Tira- Same problems as in SC3. Low damage, but not fast. I would make her JS 44[K] always stance shift and her GS 66B series land all hits when hitting grounded opponents. Some people suggested making her 4A+B back to at least pre-patch usefulness, which I support.

Mina- Make all her GI windows larger. I wouldn't mind a JF either. 6A+B:G to cancel the third hit would be great for her.

I honestly don't this air throw business with Rock. If you give Rock's 4B knockdown on normal hit, he gets a punisher that puts the opponent into his game. What more do you need? And I'm against Tira doing more damage. I would rather have her gain more life when she switches back.
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

Wish list? This is fun.
Talim
Empty 6B+K -0 on landing, basically just make it a extended jump.
Ability to cancel forced stance shift by holding G, telegraphed stance dancing isn't a good idea...
Bring back auto-GI on her BT moves.

Actually I think 99% of the Talim players would be very happy if Talim would just revert to her sc2 version.
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

for maxi

236B knockdown on regular hit
WL, make it come out a smidge quicker and let us hold the A+K command to extend the stance, then we can attack from it or let go A+K and quickly hit it again to go into psl3.
make the kick from LO BBK either mid or cancelable or both like sc2.
give us back 2bA
give us back 3B+K
give us back orig 44K
give us back orig 22KK
make transition from RO B to RC much faster
i could go on but would be happy with that.
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

thinkingofaname said:
Wish list? This is fun.
Talim
Ability to cancel forced stance shift by holding G, telegraphed stance dancing isn't a good idea...
Click to expand...

THIS! For the love of god I would do anything to make that happen.

But to add my worhtless opinion to this thread I'd say:
Rock: Give him more guarenteed combo's and a A command grab. Also give him that much needed air grab(you can make it escapable if it's too overpowered).
Tira: Make her Jolly side a bit more damaging, or atleast give her some of the moves that she has in GS aswell.
Zasalamel: I honestly think he is quite good already. Maybe give him some better lows? I don't really know here.
Mi-Na: At first give her Just Frames. She is the only character who hasn't got them right? Also that tip-range stuff, that's a pretty bad concept tbh. If you really want to have a "golden zone" for her you should give her a mix-up in that zone.
Maxi: Uhm, I don't know this guy too much. Most of the time I beat him due to Counterhitting him. Maybe grant him the ability to cancel his strings?
Yun-Seong: Also a bit blank here. Perhaps make him a bit more safe?

Most of my suggenstions make probably no-sense as I am still very clueless at high-game level. But anyway I'll hope that a patch is coming soon.
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

I really like that WL idea, but I never played Maxi in 2 so I dunno about the rest.
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

LGInfinite said:
For Mina: Make her like in SC3... that is all.
Click to expand...

I'm with LGInfinite on this one, but that's just not going to happen, so I won't use her anymore. I already conceded on Talims metamorphisis after 2, and have finally found my groove w/her again, but Mina is just too much this time.
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

tbh, I don't really think that Tira is bottom tier.
But she's definitely around mid-low.

I think that Tira's JS needs a move that's at least i13 or i14 and hits either (at better) mid or s-mid or (at worst) s-low. This hypothetical move, doesn't have to be damaging or to have great range (ie: it doesn't have to be a super-duper-punisher), or to cause stun, or anything super advantageous (except speed ;p), just a way to interrupt. Also it should be accessible from FC.

Also, another thing with Tira that keeps confusing me since i first played this game, is why does she have to damage herself in certain moves and why does she have to change her moods randomly. Is her GS THAT broken, that she really needs to punish herself? (ok, self-damage is little, but still...). Is her GS THAT broken that she shouldn't be able to maintain that mood without a f***ing random factor?

This whole concept of a character seems to have major holes in it.
If i would change something to Tira it would be the following:
- JS: SUPER weak
- GS: SUPER strong
- self-damage in GS: YES
- random mood change: NO
People that play Guilty Gear, will probably think of a certain character right now (and btw, my main in GG ;p), but at least the concept of this character in GG and her playstyle has a very nice thought all-around it.

PS: I'm NOT a Tira player
 
How to fix the top and bottom tiers in next pa

Dear sweet ditto. I think I <3 you. I posted all my thoughts on Tira changes in her SA but can't link it cuz I'm postin from my PS3. Check out her general discussion thread if you're curious.

The main thing they need to re-evaluate with Tira is risk/reward. Some of her frames make no effin' sense. Her JS 44A mixups are not scary but all unsafe. She's fine w/o a 2A-like interrupter in JS. The random mood changing is fine too but I wouldn't mind a guaranteed way off of JS 44[K]. No the HP loss in GS is not warranted. GS 88B does 23 damage, is unsafe, and linear. That's overkill IMO. I think they did that to make her seem more complex than she is. GS 66A actually being horizontal would be nice. She'd finally have that ranged step-killer I've been craving.

JS being super weak is a no-no. Let that be average. Now GS being super strong is what I they were goin' for but didn't work out. GS can definitely rape....but the risk it takes is simply unbalanced. Voldo has all the reward for so little risk. Yea....
 
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