Talim Q&A / General Discussion

[MasudSabr]

I recall a discussion where some of us has had people managed to duck WC AA during AS A~WC AA? Did we find out how they did it? I still haven't seen anybody avoid that follow up.

As for 7/8/9A, I do use 7A every now and then, as extra distance for WL like Zero said. It doesn't really do anything though, unless you're expecting a quick low jab (Amy comes to mind) especially in the end game when people kick your last bit of health down (but a WL is probably more efficient). Maybe it could be used to scare people?

 

[Renzo]

Thanks, everybody. Very useful informations for me to learn more about Talim. I'll try it next time when I use her on match.

So, AS A isn't an FC (but TC)?
I thought it is an FC, so when my AS A is blocked, I was going to do some WS (while standing) A/B or an FC K. Hahaha...

 

[ZeroEffect317]

I recall a discussion where some of us has had people managed to duck WC AA during AS A~WC AA? Did we find out how they did it? I still haven't seen anybody avoid that follow up.

Yeah, there's a delay window for WC attack inputs. Actually I think ruinandchaos pointed this out... but yeah if you're even a little late with the WC AA, it can be blocked. you need to be very late for it to be ducked. Online it can happen often

 

[ruinandchaos85]

AS A does recover crouching Renzo, IIRC. However, since it's so unsafe, you'd likely be punished before you were able to attack. It's better to just block after a blocked AS A.

Also, the only use I could see 9A for is whiff baiting. A 9A to WC could dodge some whiff punishers, and a transition to AS could catch some off guard. However, I don't see any use for it as an offensive move or a useful transition.

 

[Krokpot]

General Talim questions

I have a few questions I was unable to find answers for regarding Wind Charmer and some of its attacks.
sorry if these are posted someplace else, but I looked and didnt see anything. =)

1. Im looking for frame info on WC b,b or b:b for hit and block. I'm trying to use it in my mix more, but online i mis-time the guardbreak and JF versions alot still. and I was looking for a frame listing and was unable to locate WC b,b and b:b in the Talim frame thread.

2. how viable is A+G from the various WC rotations? I'm trying really hard to work WC mixups after my moves, mostly this stems from my attempts to get 3b, [A], WC b:b, aab to connect, but I keep missing the JF b:b and I get punished after. and I plan on mixing up the a+g now that my friends expect me to wif the JF or guard break.I guess on a side note, if I don't hit the 3b [A] then when i transition into WC i should not go for the b:b and stick to aa or back into WS or something. not sure.. sorry for newb question, still new to her and working on getting my flow down.

3. From WS "a" on normal hit I believe its giving me a CH stun where I follow up with 3bb6, b:k. now, the WS a seems to give me a different stun than WL a. WL a followed with 3bb6 launches everytime? sorry im just getting used to her animations and wanted to know if there was a difference between these two stun low A attacks on hit and its followups.

4. For Okizeme ive been using 3b[A] to WC mixup from there with limited sucess then switching to 1a when my opponent is looking for the mid otg, from 1a I proceed to aa WL or b:b or a+g then continue mixups after the throw to back turn. Is this viable or do my friends just not punish me accordingly yet? What do you guys use for Okizeme, I was possibly thinking 2a+b to WS but not sure on it (i just thought of it today while im at work, lol) how does 2A+B fair as an anti wakeup option?

Edit:
5. Also, I'm looking for a get off me fast mid to use with her for interrupts. I'm getting punished trying to hit a,a to stop my opponents strings. Ive been trying to use 3b, [A] but the 3b seems to get beat alot, per the frame thread a, and k are her only !13 moves. should I not worry about interruptions with her and focus on GI or evasion? Just an extra question I thought of, thanks!

(I know some of these questions can be answered in practice, but im stuck at work on memorial day which means im going off memory of new moves with her and such, so I apologize in advance)

Thanks guys, look forward to getting better with the character and taking her to the next level!

 

[ZeroEffect317]

General Talim questions

1. Im looking for frame info on WC b,b or b:b for hit and block. I'm trying to use it in my mix more, but online i mis-time the guardbreak and JF versions alot still. and I was looking for a frame listing and was unable to locate WC b,b and b:b in the Talim frame thread.

Try looking in the Wiki for the majority of Talim's frame data. I believe WC B:B is only +1 on block. It's better for Soul gauge damage than frame advantage anyway.

2. how viable is A+G from the various WC rotations? I'm trying really hard to work WC mixups after my moves, mostly this stems from my attempts to get 3b, [A], WC b:b, aab to connect, but I keep missing the JF b:b and I get punished after. and I plan on mixing up the a+g now that my friends expect me to wif the JF or guard break.I guess on a side note, if I don't hit the 3b [A] then when i transition into WC i should not go for the b:b and stick to aa or back into WS or something. not sure.. sorry for newb question, still new to her and working on getting my flow down.

WC A+G (or B+G) is her best option to force mixups from that stance. Where do I start?.... It gives you enough advantage to make BT B uninterruptable. It usually makes opponents freeze up and block to avoid this, so you can use BT 2K, turn around and throw them, turn around and do WC again, BT B+K, A+B Guard break, etc...

I like to step and use another WC throw for more damage and it puts me in the same mixup position again. It will also cause your opponents to duck when they see you WC, so you can start using WC B:B or WC K. WC throws are sooo good.

3. From WS "a" on normal hit I believe its giving me a CH stun where I follow up with 3bb6, b:k. now, the WS a seems to give me a different stun than WL a. WL a followed with 3bb6 launches everytime? sorry im just getting used to her animations and wanted to know if there was a difference between these two stun low A attacks on hit and its followups.

WL A gives a stun on normal hit and counter hit leading to the FC 3BB~6, AS A+K, 2A+B combo. AS A (Windsault A) only stuns on counter hit. I'm not sure if FC 3BB will launch after that, but I'll test it later.
(Also, we tend to use "AS", or Airsault to represent Windsault since "WS" is used for While Standing moves.)

4. For Okizeme ive been using 3b[A] to WC mixup from there with limited sucess then switching to 1a when my opponent is looking for the mid otg, from 1a I proceed to aa WL or b:b or a+g then continue mixups after the throw to back turn. Is this viable or do my friends just not punish me accordingly yet? What do you guys use for Okizeme, I was possibly thinking 2a+b to WS but not sure on it (i just thought of it today while im at work, lol) how does 2A+B fair as an anti wakeup option?

3B[A] on wakeup isn't a horrible option if your opponent tends to tech a lot, but I don't recommend it. If your opponent stays down they can get up and punish you before you can do anything from WC. 2A+B to AS or WL, however is a great option! especially once you've cornered your opponent. I like to mix up 2A+B transitions with 11K/11KA, 11B transitions, or 22B transitions.

5. Also, I'm looking for a get off me fast mid to use with her for interrupts. I'm getting punished trying to hit a,a to stop my opponents strings. Ive been trying to use 3b, [A] but the 3b seems to get beat alot, per the frame thread a, and k are her only !13 moves. should I not worry about interruptions with her and focus on GI or evasion? Just an extra question I thought of, thanks!

It depends on what strings your opponent is using. She doesn't have a one move solution like Kilik's Asura Dance. If your opponent uses highs in strings 1A+B is good for interrupting. 2A and FC3BB work well. If they're using lows, 9K, WL, or AS A+K are good options. If they're using linear moves, WC is the answer. And there's never anything wrong with GI-ing safe strings.

hope this helps some.

 

[Renzo]

Some question again (^_^):

1. After AS B+K hit (normal hit or CH I forgot >.<), it can be followed up with AS again (AS B+K~6). I used to do AS A+B after the AS B+K(~6) hit. But why sometimes it missed? The AS A+B goes through above the opponent. Is it my miss-timing or is it a 'not-working-on-some-character' combo?

2. What should we do after 22_88B hit? It leads to all of Talim's stance, but I still don't know what to do best. I tried to perform any move AS (22_88B~6), like AS A+B, or K, etc... it whiffed or can be air controlled.

Thanks.

 

[Prymo]

Some question again (^_^):

1. After AS B+K hit (normal hit or CH I forgot >.<), it can be followed up with AS again (AS B+K~6). I used to do AS A+B after the AS B+K(~6) hit. But why sometimes it missed? The AS A+B goes through above the opponent. Is it my miss-timing or is it a 'not-working-on-some-character' combo?

2. What should we do after 22_88B hit? It leads to all of Talim's stance, but I still don't know what to do best. I tried to perform any move AS (22_88B~6), like AS A+B, or K, etc... it whiffed or can be air controlled.

Thanks.

Some answers again :D

1. Indeed it's a guarenteed follow-up, but you should try to shorten (4) your AS jump due to the fact that you can (wich you describe) jump over your opponent.

2. After 22_88B the most damaging follow-up is AS B:K. You can also do AS A+B for minor ring-out possibilities.

Feel free to ask anything about Talim, we support having more players and are always ready to help.

Tip: Have you tried out the 2_8B+K stance mix-up yet? ^^

 

[ZeroEffect317]

1. Indeed it's a guarenteed follow-up, but you should try to shorten (4) your AS jump due to the fact that you can (wich you describe) jump over your opponent.

2. After 22_88B the most damaging follow-up is AS B:K. You can also do AS A+B for minor ring-out possibilities.

1. Yes, exactly right.
2. AS B:K and AS B+K are the best followups to 22_88B. AS A+B for RO isn't a good idea though. It usually only hits like once before you fall underneath your opponent. I've never gotten this to RO because I ring myself out.

Also, 22_88B only goes into WL and AS. Not WC.

 

[Renzo]

Also, 22_88B only goes into WL and AS. Not WC.

Oops... I'm sorry. Yeah, you're right. I've forgotten about that.

Tip: Have you tried out the 2_8B+K stance mix-up yet? ^^

Yup, I really love that stance.
But... many times my fight againts Astaroth, it can be easily interrupted by his 6K (CH) T_T

Okay. Thanks everyone ^^;

By the way, next Sunday (June 7th) there will be a Soul Calibur IV tournament in my city. I will use Talim as my main. Hahaha...
Wish me luck V(^^)V

 

[Eclair]

Oops... I'm sorry. Yeah, you're right. I've forgotten about that.


Yup, I really love that stance.
But... many times my fight againts Astaroth, it can be easily interrupted by his 6K (CH) T_T

Okay. Thanks everyone ^^;

By the way, next Sunday (June 7th) there will be a Soul Calibur IV tournament in my city. I will use Talim as my main. Hahaha...
Wish me luck V(^^)V

You should try to bring a camera along and get someone to record it. It amazing how much you can learn by watching back on your own performances, and we'll also have something to help you improve with :)

 

[Krokpot]

ZeroEffect: thanks for the responses, they've helped a ton!

I finally started getting wins with talim last night! lol, finally stopped ringing myself out with her and added 4b,b into my game which helped alot

Question: during footsies / poking game whats the viability of 1a to WC.. im looking for different ways to get into WC for throw / kick shennanigans. What are her single moves that transition into WC? I need to start mixing it up, feel like Im getting repetitive with her and that leads to a loss.

I did start using a pretty good pressure string that hasnt been punished too terribly badly and gets my opponent blocking which can setup a throw game.. WL a, 3bb~6, a+k, 2k.. if the 2k hits then i'll juggle with 66b to 2a+b, back to WL or AS mixups. is this a decent sting w/ her or again.. are my friends just noobs at fighting talim?

I also seem to be getting punished frequently when attempting to get into WC. Is that a guarantee from most characters as soon as they see the WC spin setup? I havnt found anything to go to after WC transition that they are forced to sit there to block so i can begin the mind control setup for the WC throw to BT shennanigans.

I am getting into WC more often now and have been working on BT b and have my opponents scared of it finally.. they just block anytime my back is turned.. now its time for 2k from BT and cancel into throw, much fun.

Can anybody explain how to execute her 33b:6b (just)? is this the proper notation? Im usually pretty decent at getting just frames to come out but i cant even get this one in practice and im afraid im using the incorrect notation. any advice?

I'm also looking at adding in 44k and 66k.. 44k seems to bounce pretty well.. followups?

looking at adding 11_77k,a and 33_99k, a and wanted to get some feedback on these particular moves in general. I see others using 11_77k,a often but dont see 33_99k,a used much in matches, any feedback on these two moves? uses? pros cons?

sorry for all the newb questions, trying hard to push talim to the next level. I busting it really working on mixups and not getting repetitive. Thanks!

Edit:

2. What should we do after 22_88B hit? It leads to all of Talim's stance, but I still don't know what to do best. I tried to perform any move AS (22_88B~6), like AS A+B, or K, etc... it whiffed or can be air controlled.

already been said but i generally follow up 22_88b~6 with b:k or when my opponents forget to air control k,k,k, a+b, but this mostly doesnt work when they air control. sometimes ive had limited sucess with 22_88B~6, a, 3bb~6 again if they get twitchy. /shrug

lol im not experienced enough to give too much advice but trying to return some to the community. and help =)

 

[ZeroEffect317]

Question: during footsies / poking game whats the viability of 1a to WC.. im looking for different ways to get into WC for throw / kick shennanigans. What are her single moves that transition into WC? I need to start mixing it up, feel like Im getting repetitive with her and that leads to a loss.

1A is good on wakeup or post-GI if they try to GI back. 11_77A is the same move out of 8way run so you can use that after stepping a slower move. Otherwise the move is extremely slow and unsafe.

The wiki lists all her stance transitions. Mess around with those in training mode and get familiar with them.

I did start using a pretty good pressure string that hasnt been punished too terribly badly and gets my opponent blocking which can setup a throw game.. WL a, 3bb~6, a+k, 2k.. if the 2k hits then i'll juggle with 66b to 2a+b, back to WL or AS mixups. is this a decent sting w/ her or again.. are my friends just noobs at fighting talim?

I'm confused... How can you juggle 66B after 2K? 2K hits grounded. Not sure what you're asking here.

I also seem to be getting punished frequently when attempting to get into WC. Is that a guarantee from most characters as soon as they see the WC spin setup? I havnt found anything to go to after WC transition that they are forced to sit there to block so i can begin the mind control setup for the WC throw to BT shennanigans.

Sadly, there is no guaranteed transition into any WC move on block. 1A and AS A on hit give you WC AA guaranteed if you do it quick enough. 11_77B on hit makes WC K uninterruptable, but it can be blocked.

Can anybody explain how to execute her 33b:6b (just)? is this the proper notation? Im usually pretty decent at getting just frames to come out but i cant even get this one in practice and im afraid im using the incorrect notation. any advice?

Basically do 6 and B at the same time the moment 33B hits.

I'm also looking at adding in 44k and 66k.. 44k seems to bounce pretty well.. followups?

66K is the one that gives bounce. After that you can do 66B, 2A+B to combo. (You can't do this after 4AK even though it looks the same. doesn't bounce them high enough)

If you do 66[K] instead, do BT A,B or K.

looking at adding 11_77k,a and 33_99k, a and wanted to get some feedback on these particular moves in general. I see others using 11_77k,a often but dont see 33_99k,a used much in matches, any feedback on these two moves? uses? pros cons?

11KA = Talim's second best low. 33KA = ehh.... it's not bad if used sparingly.

11KA is natural combo on standing opponents, hits grounded, TCs, gives advantage if the A hits, and has good range. It's also somewhat hard to see coming.

33KA, natural combo on CH only, TJs (although Talim has faster TJs), and only good on wakeup if the opponent gets baited by the first kick. Most people won't see the two lows after the kick coming if you don't abuse this move. You can also just use 33K to confuse those who know about the lows. It's safer than 33KA.

The real problems with 33KA is that it's a high and it's slow to get off the ground for TJ. And it's unsafe if the lows are blocked. The only way to punish 11KA is to block the low and stay crouched to duck the high.

 

[Krokpot]

I'm confused... How can you juggle 66B after 2K? 2K hits grounded. Not sure what you're asking here.

yeah, sorry about that, I posted those from work and my newb memory got confused.

re-reading - I believe I was referring to the string WL a, 3bb~6 WA a+k, 2 a+b~6, a "this is where I stop because im still learning what the best followups are here.. or mixups if you prefer. I think those are the notations.. lol im not familiar with talim enough, still get her moves mixed up when i post at work /shrug. I'll get there.

Wind Leap is great, but I think my friends are figuring out that you can on reaction punish it with bb or several attacks.. and im about to be done trying to use WL b. that stupid move doesnt beat anything! lol maybe im just using it at the incorrect time.

Also looking for a good followup for WL k, it gives a good bounce.. and ive been following it up with 2 a+b to further stance shennanigans.

Also a few questions about WL a+b unblockable.. ive been experementing with this to some limited sucess by cancelling the animation and initiating a shift to WA a+b to catch steps to avoid the unblockable. not very consistent yet though.. but it seems to be a decent break during attack strings for a small mixup.

Ive noticed that 6k gives a pretty good stun (shakeable?) on CH and I was wondering what the best follow-up would be. 3b, [A] looks like it may work, but I have not taken it into practice yet. (again posting from work) I just started using the move a bit last night when playing and suprisingly got a few stuns with it.. wasted the opportunity though because I did not have a good followup.

Also Zero, have to give you thanks for giving me some ideas for okizeme with WA.. im noticing that lots can be ended with 2 a+b~6 to WA wakeup game begins.. good stuff.. I didnt get many wins last night but I did have them griping about getting up off the ground. Just have to keep practicing.

Thanks for all the info!!

 

[Renzo]

Also looking for a good followup for WL k, it gives a good bounce.. and ive been following it up with 2 a+b to further stance shennanigans.

I used to do 6A+B after the WL K. It's a mid-range Ring Out, I think. Hahaha...

Ive noticed that 6k gives a pretty good stun (shakeable?) on CH and I was wondering what the best follow-up would be.

CH 6K is a shakable stun. So the follow up after that is not a guaranteed combo.

Umm... Wind Sault notation is AS, bro, not WA ^^;

 

[MasudSabr]

I used to do 6A+B after the WL K. It's a mid-range Ring Out, I think. Hahaha...

6A+B is a great RO option. :D
Normally though, I would just follow up with a 66B then 2A+B into something.

 

[ZeroEffect317]

I found out a neat little trick you can do post-GI near the edge. I've been training myself to use 66A after a GI. (since you press forward to GI anyway, I'm conditioning myself to do a quick double tap in the same direction.) If you GI an opponent facing the edge, 66A becomes unblockable at 17 frames. They CAN re-GI the move though.

But here's the beauty of this... Now 66A becomes a straight 50/50 RO mixup.

If you know your opponent to re-GI, then simply run a bit to stall before using 66A. Sure it's still a guessing game, but the rewards far out weigh the risk. It's pure genius, really. Just thought I'd pass that on.

 

[Vegeta]

I found out a neat little trick you can do post-GI near the edge. I've been training myself to use 66A after a GI. (since you press forward to GI anyway, I'm conditioning myself to do a quick double tap in the same direction.) If you GI an opponent facing the edge, 66A becomes unblockable at 17 frames. They CAN re-GI the move though.

But here's the beauty of this... Now 66A becomes a straight 50/50 RO mixup.

If you know your opponent to re-GI, then simply run a bit to stall before using 66A. Sure it's still a guessing game, but the rewards far out weigh the risk. It's pure genius, really. Just thought I'd pass that on.

Hmm....I'll take that theory online later. If it works, good stuff lol.

 

[mikosu]

Zero and his pro post-GI mixups. Mine atm is 3BA and 236B. 3BA does 30 damage (great for Talim) AND gives you WC mixups. It's one of those moves that gives a free back throw on some characters if they don't duck ex. Vader. 236B_(B) for pure damage into AS mixups.

Oh and 66[K] is a fun little setup for BT [B+K]A+B. Haven't tried it on a person yet but methinks the oki would be fantastic.

 

[Renzo]

Question again here ^^;
I'm sorry if this has been asked before.

4B+K, WL A,
--> FC 3B,B~6, AS A+K, 2A+B - 54 dmg (will not work on large characters)
--> FC 3B,B~6, AS A+K, 1K - 52 dmg (will not work on large characters)
--> FC 3B,B~6, AS A+B, 2A+B - 55 dmg (for large characters)
--> FC 3B,B~6, AS A+B, 1K - 53 dmg (for large characters)

Who are those "large characters"?
So far I've found, they are Astaroth and Lizardman. Others are? Rock? or who else?
How about CAS?

Thanks ^^;

Note:
About yesterday's tournament. It's a multi-ticket, so I have 3 tickets. They are Talim, Sophitia, and Astaroth.
My Talim was beaten on the first round (I'm sorry... shame on me, I'm a Talim newbie T_T). My Sophitia was beaten on the second round (T_T). Only my Astaroth proceeded to semi-final. And in the end, I'm at the 3rd position ^^;