1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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Well Setsuka is REALLY top tier in this game. Though I'd change some match up I made winning for Setsuka before (like Voldo, now I believe it's 5-5 for Voldo or adv. to Voldo). But she has nearly NO negatives match up (1 if you count Voldo).

As I said before, she has everything a char would want : damage, safety, evasion, rewarding step (even though step is harder with her), range, antistep tools, rewarding lows (good risk/reward ratio), good throws, good punitions, speed and good closerange game.
I believe there are misconceptions on how she is to be played, Setsuka is not an agressive character but a passive one with good bull rush once she has the adv.

Saitoh : The only JF I have trouble (7/10 ratio out of A+K B and 214B+G, 5/10 without a move before) to do with Sets is JF umbrella and JF a:g:B (7/10 ratio :/).
1B:B, 214~3B:B, 1A:A:A are hardly JFs and can be done easily with training (even easier with 1.03 patch).

By the way, I don't say Setsuka is god tier, she's still weaker than Voldo :P (and perhaps Hilde, but Setsuka has the edge against Hilde).
 
Saitoh said:
Setsuka is top tiers but she's so hard to play ... i cant see anyone winning a major with her for now. In tourney or money match - first to five/ten, there is too much pressure, and she's already hard to master in casual so ... :p

Only top Setsuka I've seen yet is Chang's Friend, and even he mess up his JF at some crucials moment (like 214B+G near edge, and missing his JF ombrella, loosing the round after).

Maybe later in the game's life, someone will step up with her with 95+% success with all her JFs and bring her to the top in tournament, not only in match-up chart :)
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Just frames shouldnt make or break the game of a character. And dont count on that 95 percent success rate, real matchplay is never that accurate.

Reason #0183838424974 why Setsuka isnt as good as the bandwagon claims.
 
Artilust said:
Just frames shouldnt make or break the game of a character. And dont count on that 95 percent success rate, real matchplay is never that accurate.

Reason #0183838424974 why Setsuka isnt as good as the bandwagon claims.
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You underestimate how good people can get at execution with months of playing. Quite a few Guilty Gear characters are even harder than Setsuka, yet there are top Japanese players for everybody in that game.
 
Wonder if Namco is collecting win/loss/usage statistics for the characters, they probably wouldn't ever share them. Granted it would be more reflective of the average online user's skill (or lack thereof depending on how elitist you are), but, it still would be interesting to see.
 
rashreflection said:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=changs+fd+setsuka&search_sort=video_date_uploaded
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...What's this?
I don't want to be insulting, but that Mitsurugi looked like he could have done better. Maybe there are things that I'm not seeing because I don't know much about Mitsurugi, but...

1. Setsuka rushes at him, stands there for a little while, and then starts attacking.
...Almost every single time that Setsuka did this, it was for 1A : A : A. Mitsurugi never seemed to realize that.

2. Mitsurugi never sidesteps to avoid hits. Just just freezes there and blocks.

3. Mitsurugi gives almost no pressure, and is scared.
Did you notice how well he fares when he's on the offensive? But instead he gets scared for a long time and lets that Setsuka do anything she wants to him.

4. Where are his offensive strings? Mixups?

5. That Setsuka had no fear. What are the chances that Chang's friend loses against someone who's afraid?


---------------

Against LAU as Algol.

Well my only comment is that LAU seems to be a more technical player and has impressed me a little. But he ate several attacks that he could have avoided with a simple back dash.


LAU as Nightmare.

They seemed to share their wins pretty equally.
Oh wait, Nightmare is supposedly bottom-mid. What are we talking about again? Ah, right, I want to see why Setsuka is supposedly top tier, right...



...And I'd just like to add that I comment on what I perceive, I don't comment on what I could do better. I don't want to look like I think I'm better.
 
andur said:
Wonder if Namco is collecting win/loss/usage statistics for the characters, they probably wouldn't ever share them. Granted it would be more reflective of the average online user's skill (or lack thereof depending on how elitist you are), but, it still would be interesting to see.
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There isn't any elitism about it, the average online player lacks a lot of basic system knowledge, anti character strategies and other factors that make a player competitive. That's just a fact.
 
Even though I personally believe that Sets is Upper Mid (MAYBE Top, but I think she needs some better lows to be Top), those vids don't really show WHY she's good at all.

I mean, that Sets in the vids is TECHNICALLY proficient in that he hits the JF pretty dang consistently, but he didn't really mix it up very much if at all. Though sort of thing DOES tend to happen when playing the same person over and over. Some things just work better against one person in general so you spam them until they start getting blocked.
 
rashreflection said:
You underestimate how good people can get at execution with months of playing. Quite a few Guilty Gear characters are even harder than Setsuka, yet there are top Japanese players for everybody in that game.
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But Americans are in general lazier as far as execution goes, and japanese don't play this game much.
 
Having just played ME-R3D-ATL, I can tell you.

Used effectively, Kilik is a pain in the ass to attack. He can space like nobody's business, and disadvantage means practically nothing to him so long as he's got 1B, WSB, and Asura. He can fish for counterhits better than any character aside from, maybe, Taki, and if he keeps you at mid-range, he can do whatever he wants, provided that you don't GI.
 
Plume said:
What are the chances that Chang's friend loses against someone who's afraid?

.
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Changs FD is badass... Most of these matches you watch of him are casual I would imagine they let each other try stuff out on occasion just to see if they can block or figure ways around it...

The HK players are some of the better Ive seen.... they can make most people look top tier lol
 
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