1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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ShenYuan said:
Tiamat: I feel that your impression of the tiers make good sense. However, I feel that Xianghua should be in A.
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hm thanks!

I was not totally clear on this perhaps but that tier list I posted is very incomplete. Maybe you (understandably) assumed all the characters I did not list are in the C tier but that's not what I intended. For example, I'm pretty sure Cervantes is A or B but did not list him because I couldn't make up my mind yet, despite knowing quite a lot about the character. Same for nightmare actually, despite using him so much, I still cannot decide if he is B,C, or D tier. The ones on the list are just the ones I'm more sure about. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Xianghua was worthy of A tier, it's just that I haven't done much analysis of her yet.


vane505: the reason I tier yoshi as B tier is because his anti step is pretty crappy, especially to his left side (meaning the opponent should step right). also some range issues.
 
Is this for online or offline?

I play a lot online and I would definitely arrange it differently for that. If we're talking online tier 1: Mitsu, Sophie, Cervantes, Maxi...entirely because they can abuse lag so bad with the fast mid to low mixups.

As well I got to disagree with Kilik. I have never found kilik to be difficult ever. He's got some cool moves but he's so easy to punish and predict it's REALLY easy to let them screw themselves by starting a move and having to sit in it's long animation. Maybe EVERY kilik online totally sucks, but I have always seen him as bottom tier, though oddly those people all have good scores...then again maybe playing Ivy gives me a huge advantage over him since I can sit back farther and really destroy him when he whiffs without risking much. I have NEVER lost a match to a Kilik unless lag is a direct fault to the match.

Also, while Darth Vader is generally bad, I have seen him be really powerful in the hands of some players and I feel he deserves to go up a little. I could be wrong though.
 
IvyFanboy said:
Is this for online or offline?

I play a lot online and I would definitely arrange it differently for that. If we're talking online tier 1: Mitsu, Sophie, Cervantes, Maxi...entirely because they can abuse lag so bad with the fast mid to low mixups.

As well I got to disagree with Kilik. I have never found kilik to be difficult ever. He's got some cool moves but he's so easy to punish and predict it's REALLY easy to let them screw themselves by starting a move and having to sit in it's long animation. Maybe EVERY kilik online totally sucks, but I have always seen him as bottom tier, though oddly those people all have good scores...then again maybe playing Ivy gives me a huge advantage over him since I can sit back farther and really destroy him when he whiffs without risking much. I have NEVER lost a match to a Kilik unless lag is a direct fault to the match.

Also, while Darth Vader is generally bad, I have seen him be really powerful in the hands of some players and I feel he deserves to go up a little. I could be wrong though.
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excuse me but i think online sucks so bad
 
Well yeah online blows. Though it is still fun and i'm glad i have access to it. Its great for practicing, but hell if I feel my 50% win ratio with Ivy is accurate...it would be about 80-90 offline.

But some people base people on how good they are online and frankly most of those people are good because they're good AND their character deals with lag better than most (Ivy suffers a lot from lag where my top 4 online can actually abuse it).

Though above comment...what was the point of that post?
 
Tiamat said:
how high? you looking at the first post? it's pretty innacurate to say the least. she's probably upper mid/B tier

example:
S: Algol, Hilde
A: Setsuka, Kilik, Amy, Voldo
B: Cass, Soph, Asta, Yoshi
C: ? (this has the highest number of characters in it compared to the other ranks)
D: Zas, Maxi
E: Mina

etc

It's pretty early in the game so tiers are still very debatable. I'm still on the fence about Nightmare even.
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I don't understand how Algol is so high up. It doesn't seem like he has the power needed to win. His bubbles are completely overrated; they're very useful, but not godlike. My brother and I have seen shitloads of people who used Algol as their main, and none of them were really that good. I still have to fight Crow Winters when he plays as Algol, though. I did fight him with Tira once a while back, and I basically gave up because I was getting my ass raped so bad.
 
MAILBOXARSON99 said:
I don't understand how Algol is so high up. It doesn't seem like he has the power needed to win.
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He has strong combos (3B combo is 78 dmg, 66BA is 83 damage, 33B is 70+, WS B is 60-100+ depending)
Amazing backdash
Bubbles are great
best low poke in the game (1A)
best BB in the game
He is very safe if you want him to be, and he doesn't take any huge dive in effectiveness when you do so
strong throws (though shit throw range)
Great anti step options

cons:
bad sidestep (but not useless)
no lows with advantage on normal hit (most characters don't have this though)
lame RO and wall abilities



Furthermore, depending on your definition of "winning," every character can win.
 
Hey Mina has an SRK, that must count for something.

It's almost as invulnerable as an SRK on start up (ducks)
It jumps like an SRK
It knocks things down when it hits like an SRK
It's a horizontal mid
It has craptastic recovery like an SRK

Thus, Mina = Shotokan. Oh, this move is 8A+B.
 
KoshTheKoala said:
Hey Mina has an SRK, that must count for something.

It's almost as invulnerable as an SRK on start up (ducks)
It jumps like an SRK
It knocks things down when it hits like an SRK
It's a horizontal mid
It has craptastic recovery like an SRK

Thus, Mina = Shotokan. Oh, this move is 8A+B.
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All she needs is fireballs, and then she would be instantly proclaimed top tier.
 
Well algol has both SRK (623B) and fireballs :/

Tiamat: Cool, I understand what you mean. I'll try to post up my reasons soon.
 
Most tourney players should know top 4 is Amy, Kilik, Voldo, and Hilde.

That 5th spot is tricky, though. Who deserves it more? Sophitia, Setsuka, Mitsurugi, Ivy, Yoshi? I'm not sure who is outright better amongst them...
 
IvyFanboy said:
Well yeah online blows. Though it is still fun and i'm glad i have access to it. Its great for practicing, but hell if I feel my 50% win ratio with Ivy is accurate...it would be about 80-90 offline.
?
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now wouldn't that depend on who you play against?
 
Vincent said:
News just in, Yun-Seong is TOP TIER!!!

Just passing on the message. Some bad-ass from Toronto told me so, they call him STRYDER.
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wow ......

like raph but you dont see me boosting him up to top when hes blatantly not that good.
yun is a gamble,alot of his moves are unsafe
 
Ryuke said:
How did Taki went from High Tier to mid tier ?
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well her bombs are now stepable, less damage on her combos,66B:A most stepable and do less damage, less range, no more PO B guard brake, and she is most unsafe than SC3.

beside that, it seems that Kilik, Setsu, Amy, Hilde, and (Yoshi, Sophi) are in a solid top 5.
 
Tiamat said:
He has strong combos (3B combo is 78 dmg, 66BA is 83 damage, 33B is 70+, WS B is 60-100+ depending)
Amazing backdash
Bubbles are great
best low poke in the game (1A)
best BB in the game
He is very safe if you want him to be, and he doesn't take any huge dive in effectiveness when you do so
strong throws (though shit throw range)
Great anti step options

cons:
bad sidestep (but not useless)
no lows with advantage on normal hit (most characters don't have this though)
lame RO and wall abilities



Furthermore, depending on your definition of "winning," every character can win.
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Yeah, I kinda' realized how fucking good Algol is last night. My brother has seriously practiced with Algol no more than three hours, and he was able to beat me 50/50 with Algol when I was playing as Siegfried. The series of matches also taught me how fucking shitty Siegfried is in a local match.
 
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