1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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rashreflection said:
hey, remember when killa6 said hilde & setsuka were the best in the game and we all laughed at him?

look like he may not have been that far off...

i still say voldo > hilde though, just because he doesn't have any real counter-characters afaik
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he wasn't far off but I don't think he hit it on the head either. after playing JOP he decided algol was the best in the game and was so cheap he needed to be banned. lol
 
ShenYuan said:
Hey guys... about Noface's tier list... personally i dont see how xianghua is below Cassandra, Amy, Yoshimitsu, Cervantes, Taki. Ill only compare to the first two though. comparing with all the ones stated above will be kinda tiring.
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Well you know, I can't please everybody. I personally don't think X is on the same level as the people in B tier...but there is no B+ tier. So she got rounded down. I guess I could move her up to A tier. I'd like to get more opinions though.
 
ShenYuan, you should also add 6:6B and 8WR A+B to the Amy-list.

(Correct me if I'm wrong with this data, Amy isn't my main)
6:6B does little under 60 damage, i16 (thank you Dullyanna for correction) and -10 on block. Hits grounded and can RO.
8WR A+B does over 60 damage, TC, long range and -12 on block. Hits grounded.

Also, Amy can Auto-GI mid/high attacks and jump low with A+K to counter. Great against certain characters that does predictable attack-strings, like Voldos 3B,(Amy B+K here) B and so on.

EDIT: She also has 66A, A+K-stance and much more for oki.
 
vane505 said:
ShenYuan, you should also add 6:6B and 8WR A+B to the Amy-list.

(Correct me if I'm wrong with this data, Amy isn't my main)
6:6B does little under 60 damage, i16 (thank you Dullyanna for correction) and -10 on block. Hits grounded and can RO.
8WR A+B does over 60 damage, TC, long range and -12 on block. Hits grounded.

Also, Amy can Auto-GI mid/high attacks and jump low with A+K to counter. Great against certain characters that does predictable attack-strings, like Voldos 3B,(Amy B+K here) B and so on.

EDIT: She also has 66A, A+K-stance and much more for oki.
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That is very vague.
She has an autoGI for every attack level, a guessing game on her part...albeit the mid GI is the best one. Predictability is a fault of the player not the character. Regular GI works in the same places her autoGIs work.

What is this MUCH MORE for Oki that you're speaking of? apart from what was already mentioned...which happen to be all mid? Yuan listed details...where's yours?

So what if she has 66A and A+K stance? how applicable are they...what does this say? I can say X has her A+K stance and her 4A+B etc....but it means naught if i don't explain myself.

66:B is one of her only attacks that hit ground AND is troublesome to sideroll...everything else not so much.
 
guys, we really need to get beyond character abilities and delve into matchups!

for instance, does voldo have any bad matchups? i'm under the impression that he has the fewest of anyone in the game, but would like to know more. in theory i could see hilde/kilik/algol all being tough for him, but i'm not remotely qualified to say for sure.

also, the usage of S tier etc. is just a japanese thing. in hokuto no ken they actually have SSS tier toki & rei, SS tier juda, and S tier raoh =P
 
hotnikkelz said:
That is very vague.
She has an autoGI for every attack level, a guessing game on her part...albeit the mid GI is the best one. Predictability is a fault of the player not the character. Regular GI works in the same places her autoGIs work.

What is this MUCH MORE for Oki that you're speaking of? apart from what was already mentioned...which happen to be all mid? Yuan listed details...where's yours?

So what if she has 66A and A+K stance? how applicable are they...what does this say? I can say X has her A+K stance and her 4A+B etc....but it means naught if i don't explain myself.

66:B is one of her only attacks that hit ground AND is troublesome to sideroll...everything else not so much.
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Lol chill out :P

I'm not saying that Amy is better than X or vice versa. I said that he missed out of some stuff regarding Amy. Also read what I wrote. I said PREDICTABLE attack-strings. With that I mean attacks where you know about the follow-up. Like for example, Setsukas 1B:B.

When you see Setsuka hit you with 1B, you know that the follow-up will be a mid, so you do like this: You block 1B, you then time B+K (mid auto-GI) so that the second hit gets countered. Same with my previous example (Voldos 3B,B). You see what I mean?


"Much more" was bad chosen words from my part. Amy is not my main, but some stuff that I think works well as oki:
236 to close in
236 K,K_:A - Not sure, but I don't think it's rollable. Correct me if I'm wrong.
6:6B - Overall her best oki-move IMO.
8WR A+B
2B+K
A+K-stance
66A
1A

rashreflection
I agree about the matchups, but I think it's easier to keep that discussion in the Soul Arena. One thread with how well everyone does against everyone will be a mess.
 
X is beastly as always. Funny how she and Mitsu were characters that never really got toned down over time. I guess they just stuck with what works.
 
She's not the evil whore she was in SC3, though. And the fact that Mitsu's 2KB can be stepped to his weak side is a total pain in the ass.
 
Noface Tier list ver. 1.03:

S
Hilde*, Kilik, Voldo, Algol

A+
Cassandra, Setsuka, Yoshimitsu, Amy

A
Sophie, Lizardman, Cervantes, Taki, Xianghua

B
Astaroth, Ivy, Siegfried, Mitsurugi, Nightmare, Apprentice

C
Raphael, Tira, Vader, Yun, Maxi, Talim

D
Rock, Seong Mina, Zasalamel

Short Bus
Yoda
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*Hilde should be like...S+. But oh well.

Anyway, I bumped X up a notch.
 
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