Again, yes, well done. But that's not what I did is it. I was making a couple of key points to back up what I wrote, not listing every single reason why I think Algol is arguably the strongest character in the game. You can attack my argument for its brevity - and I could do exactly the same to yours, and write three times as much as you did, about the strengths of weakness of Algol and Viola, concluding with some comment about how 'it's not just about the merits of one setup, or the linear assessment of total damage per BE' blah blah blah.
Why post at all if you won't bother explaining your reasoning? There's no place for prevarication in MUH OBJECTIVELY CORRECT OPINIONS: THE THREAD.
Firstly I have never played a decent Ezio player.Maybe only OOFMATIC.Secondly I haven't good Ezio knowledge at all but I think he can't punish some moves very well.For example he can't punish Ivy's 214B with other than his CE.He can't punish Mitsu on block,some of his unsafe moves require that the proper punish input very quickly.As for Natsu he can't punish 66B and AAB except with his CE.Cevy moves(3B,aB,2A+B) are trouble too.And his B+K aGI both crossbows right?That's why I put him so low on my list.Maybe he deserve higher position...I really don't know.
CE shouldn't be underestimated. i13, 90 damage, and the highest clean hit chance of any CE, and clean hits bop it up to 108 damage. That's a 2K away from half life for -13 or -14.
Cerv aB and Natsu 66B are both 6B BE punishable, I believe.
Cerv's 2A+B is safe versus the entire cast except for Yoshimitsu (lol iMCF punish) and aPat (lol CE).
As for crossbows, lol. That's like judging Raphael based on the strength of his cantarella needle series.
About Algol :
Stop reducing the character to 44B. He has other amazing tools too and his weaknesses are nowhere near as huge as you guys make it sound to be.
You're misinterpreting my post. I was criticizing Hyrul's argument, in which he simplified things to absurd levels "ONE HIT KILLS = SSSSSSS+++ TIER". Algol's strengths (safety, guard damage, and utility tools like a command throw, strong punishment options, an annoying 0 on hit low, and situationally useful gambling options like 623B and 4B+K) absolutely outweigh his weaknesses enough to set him firmly in a higher tier, somewhere amid the cloud of Greeks floating around there. However, I'd have to work hard to oversell the shittiness of his movement. An often overlooked but important aspect of good (evasive) movement is that you don't have to give much of a shit about verts with strong sides.
If you watch some of Jimbo's matches versus random Mitsurugis at ECT, you'll notice he has a habit of stepping clockwise. In the end it didn't matter much--Raph's step is absolutely good enough to quickstep Mitsu 1B to its strong side. But with Algol, barring extenuating circumstances, if you step CCW against Mitsu 1B, you get hit. So what I'm saying boils down to something pretty important:
A Mitsurugi player has a greater chance of hitting an Algol player with a random action at neutral than he has against a Raphael player (or Pyrrha or Viola or Alpha Patroklos or Mitsurugi or any of the other characters that has a retarded step). You might argue that it's an inconsequential factor overall, but I assert that when you push the game to the extent where any major hit could significantly affect the outcome, it is by no means an unreasonable stretch of the imagination to picture a situation such as:
Algol or Alpha Patroklos versus Pyrrha. The former have ~80 health and Pyrrha has ~50. Anticipating a BB, the 1P steps to her right to avoid BB's broken left side hitbox. Instead of BB, she does 3B. The following results:
⇒ Being a little girl, Alpha Patroklos has no difficulty evading 3B's broken right side hitbox. He punishes the whiff and wins.
⇒ Being a big manly motherfucker with much shittier movement, Algol gets caught by Pyrrha 3B's broken right side hitbox. She converts into CE and wins.
That's just one example of many that would realistically come into play, and it results in a myriad of potential effects, from something as small as demoralization from getting screwed over on a correct read (the "That's bullshit, I fucking stepped that" factor) to match-altering occurrences that are often overlooked simply because it's very difficult to watch a match, pinpoint a specific exchange between characters, and definitively say "This is where the match went sour for Player X". And honestly, that is the de facto problem with every tier list thread; the system being discussed is too complex for every nuance to be encompassed in the rhetoric you'll find here Iin my massive wall of text I've only managed to encompass one small facet of my argument) so it inevitably devolves into credibility-based arguments and bickering over conceptions formed as a result of everyone's own personal, subjective experiences with the game‒and that's all a tier list is. As I said earlier in this post, I have refrained from posting my own tier list because I it's impossible for someone to
objectively assess tiers (and I'd explain my reasoning for this, but it's explicitly against the thread rules so I won't delve down that rabbit hole unless necessary), so I'm mostly in this thread to pick other peoples' brains to gain insight into how other people interpret high level play in SCV's system.
