1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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In tournaments you are not allowed to pick the stage. The only thing you are allowed to do after a loss is to choose another random stage....meaning, you could theoretically get an even smaller level.....it's all up to chance.

Well I didn't see if it was a tournament or not, I didn't look in the description before. And anyway it might be that way for that particular tournament, but not for every one.

I could explain all this but it won't matter, you won't understand till you play a good Hilde player yourself and get tossed out of the ring about 100 times until you are convinced. Until then, you can go ahead and keep thinking that Hilde is a weak character that does no damage.

I'm not some newb that doesn't know what they're talking about and I don't need to be treated that way by some punk online. I don't need to "play a good Hilde player and be ringed out 100 times until I'm convinced". I think spongebob's video did it for me. That doesn't change that I think she's weak on damage with many of her moves. That combo and that one throw of hers is an exception.

I didn't say Hilde was a weak character, I said the strategy guide made her sound that way. I only said she seems weak on damage to me.

The stategy guide is a joke lol. It actually tells you that you can win with Zas, because people won't know about how his moves pull in and what not. Plus the combos they have for the characters are jokes.

Yeah I'm guessing they make those strategy guides for casual players and not for experts.
 
Hilde is best person in the game, then cassandra,yoshimitsu and last setsuka. I cant even think of any possible reason cervantees would be top tier.

edit- algol is best person:) then hilde and so on.
 
Since everybody's making one, I'll leave mine here.

S - Hilde, Algol

A - Amy, Voldo, Kilik, Setsuka

B - Yoshi, Sophie, Cass, Asta, Cervy, X

C - Lizardman, Mitsu, Ivy, Taki, Apprentice, Nightmare, Siegfried

D - Raph, Yun, Vader, Maxi, Tira, Rock

E - Mina, Zasalamel, Talim, Yoda
 
Bottom is Rock and Mina.
Top is Hilde and Algol.

That's all I know and really care about.

Zas, Maxi, Talim, and Tira are in the one above the bottom.

And for all the hype about so many top characters, Astaroth is looking a lot stronger than some people are writing him off to be. I know theory says Amy, Voldo, and Setsuka should be higher, but results show Astaroth as a consistent contender in all tournaments.
 
Hilde is best person in the game, then cassandra,yoshimitsu and last setsuka. I cant even think of any possible reason cervantes would be top tier.

edit- algol is best person:) then hilde and so on.
Or....you can read the millions of posts on here from Cervantes players describing why he is? The fact you put Cassandra/Yoshimitsu ahead of Cervantes is......well.......silly. Do you HAVE any good cervantes players near you? All you have to do is read one of the first 2 pages and you'll see posts of why he is........yeah....
 
Since everybody's making one, I'll leave mine here.

S - Hilde, Algol

A - Amy, Voldo, Kilik, Setsuka

B - Yoshi, Sophie, Cass, Asta, Cervy, X

C - Lizardman, Mitsu, Ivy, Taki, Apprentice, Nightmare, Siegfried

D - Raph, Yun, Vader, Maxi, Tira, Rock

E - Mina, Zasalamel, Talim, Yoda

That's a damn good list imo.

Personally i'd switch X with Amy, Rock with Sieg, Lizard with Maxi. I'd put Hilde in A as well. Algol is in a tier by himself.
 
you really feel liz needs to be in D tier? i disagree completely, and thats from a liz player who admits liz has shit for lows but can still do great without them, or heavy LC stance use.
 
If you can't block Yoshi's lows on reaction, that's a player problem not char problem. Any top player can block his lows on reaction. If he gets in Dragonfly, duck until you see the B. This is common knowledge. FC 3k you can see on reaction. Reflection A, you can see on reaction also. Am I missing another superior low?

I've posted over and over why Cervantes is good. It gets boring when every week I have to explain it to yet somebody else. Cervantes is not the best. I think he's top 5. I've listed reasons many MANY times. I'll list them one more time, for you:

-aB still punishes a lot of things. Takes off a good chunk too

-The fact you can do the command throw while standing is awesome. It's 69 damage and leaves you AT HIS FEET, while he recovers first. It's the worst possible place to be in

-iGDR. Enough said

-2A+B leads to WS A greatness. WS A, aK gives him one of the best mixups in the game. BT B+K if they move/duck, 3B launch to gun, 3A+B is retarded damage. And that's EASY damage, now try BT B+K, 3B, gun, iGDR. If you duck, BT 2K, 33B guaranteed for 47. That's very good damage and trains you to duck for BT B+K.

-iTP makes him the one true char who can control the match and control space. Nobody else has this.

-aK puts him in BT and is a very useable high.

-1k leads to 6K (only some chars trade, and that's ok cause 6K is more damage). If they block, 1K to command throw or regular throw

-B throw, DC K is 48 damage. However, he's now in BT.

-Covers step beautifully. 3A+B is safe (not as great as it used to be but hey, still works) and 66A is great also. Also, his 2A is better

-WS A, 4KK to Wall is fairly common. The A throw ROs pretty far now too, so it opens up the B throw setups.

-bK is one of the most underrated moves in the game. Puts you at neutral and 3k beats out a LOT of moves. If they try to 2A, I've gotten LOTS of wall splats/ROs w/another bK. Also, if you roll back, 3B Launch is free. So you have to roll to the side or just stand there, either way, I'm recovering first so heads up


Like Setsuka, Cervantes is hard to use. It's a fact, dispute it all you want but it IS a fact, he's not easy. Tiers aren't about ease of use. Cervantes is not popular (unless you are an online scrub, which I'm sure you're not, or at least hope you're not) so again, MOST PEOPLE have not seen a really good Cervantes.

Perfect example to my thinking is Kilik. When the game came out, people tried to say he was good (after the patch) and nobody listened. All this sudden, Kilik/Voldo/Hilde are rocking tournaments and there are your answers. This game hasn't been out a year, lots of people don't have exposure yet, and that's fine. I have almost zero Kilik exposure. I have a good understanding of Setsuka/Hilde/Kilik but since no top players around me use her, how can I comment on them? That would make me a hypocrite, and overall, you have to be open minded, which this community as a whole, let's be honest, isn't.

While I know this post was made quite a while ago I would like to respond to it.

You make quite a few good points, I don't know much about Cervantes at all.

Your post has made me rethink my opinion of his tier place, I think you just might be right abotu him being top tier. Moreover, you've actually convinced me to learn how to use the magical pirate.
 
I think Zas is underrated. Of course I'm biased, but the fact remains that there are very, very few good Zas players out there. He's not easy to use, but he has all the tools he truly "needs". If he had a command throw, I think he'd absolutely devastate the current tier listing.

Most of the same things could be said for Cerv. Cerv is underrated due to the fact that almost no one uses him to his full potential.
 
While I know this post was made quite a while ago I would like to respond to it.

You make quite a few good points, I don't know much about Cervantes at all.

Your post has made me rethink my opinion of his tier place, I think you just might be right about him being top tier. Moreover, you've actually convinced me to learn how to use the magical pirate.
Well fuck me, there is hope yet in this community. Glad to see more people out least willing to take SOME steps like this before ruling him out. You get 1,000 man points sir
 
Well fuck me, there is hope yet in this community. Glad to see more people out least willing to take SOME steps like this before ruling him out. You get 1,000 man points sir

So far I'm having a lot of fun with him, but his FC A+Bbbb is going to make my finger explode if I don't get it soon.
 
I dont think cervantees is bad, but he is not top 5 . The fact is he can be side steped pretty easily.

Yosh-fast,strong,good RO game

hilde-good speed,great side step,very unpunishable,insane RO game

setsuka-speed,power,agility(only down side is the skill it takes to use her well which is why she is underated by alot of players)

cassandra- is just solid,sick RO game,really strong,fast

algol........we all know the deal

kilik- asura dance, range,speed,

this is just my opion so please dont bash me:) And to be all honest i dont know any very very very good cervantees.
 
I think Zas is underrated. Of course I'm biased, but the fact remains that there are very, very few good Zas players out there. He's not easy to use, but he has all the tools he truly "needs". If he had a command throw, I think he'd absolutely devastate the current tier listing.

Most of the same things could be said for Cerv. Cerv is underrated due to the fact that almost no one uses him to his full potential.

Your Zas was very good, probably the best I've seen. Maybe underrated, but I don't think he's jumping tiers though.
 
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