1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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Did anyone actually notice the HK guys putting auto-ch on every combo vid? The C3B combo from Hilde in particular starts with a 144% dmg modifier.
The dmg mali also look wrong to me. This might either be a valid gameplay-change or something is effecting the weapon base dmg in those displays.

Its waaaay too early for any of you to call for bans or whine about the game.
 
i dont think tournament results should be a big factor

not many people use setsu so she is bound to win less

and belial that JF is easy if you know the secret

but it is VERY good also
 
Bubbles said:
i dont think tournament results should be a big factor
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That's how tiers work. They are always a reference for tournament players, it gives you an idea what to practice against, who has what tools to counter matchups, etc. It's been this way for years and will not change anytime soon. You can't possibly compare Setsuka to Raphael, that's silly. Setsuka in the right hands can be a beast, and whoever the top Setsuka is, we'll go by that person's matchup chart and compare it to everybody elses.
 
I want to know which 2~3 top players did S_U receive a matchup chart for Raphael and Taki. These two characters are too unpopular hahaha.

Nori: I still think matchup/tier discussion is on paper and should not be strictly based on tournament results. I mean, you have been advocating Cervantes for being top tier for ages yet Cervantes has not been as impressive as other top/high tier characters in tournament performance. Now I do think Cervantes is pretty high tier but due to the high difficulty to play him, tournament results don't reflect his tier status well.

Raph looks kinda crappy on paper but in actual gameplay makes up for it by being a simple character (this is true for Astaroth as well IMO ... they both play a bit better than data sugest because they're simple characters). This is a on-paper discussion though so I'll go with Raph being mid/lower mid. IMO Raph's real strength is his ability to move around ... it weakens the opponent's throw-mid mixup game. He is also safe enough (outside of prep) and with enough range to be flexble to switch from offense to defense (and vice versa) quickly.

Dullyanna: AB is good offline though!
 
Nori said:
That's how tiers work. They are always a reference for tournament players, it gives you an idea what to practice against, who has what tools to counter matchups, etc. It's been this way for years and will not change anytime soon. You can't possibly compare Setsuka to Raphael, that's silly. Setsuka in the right hands can be a beast, and whoever the top Setsuka is, we'll go by that person's matchup chart and compare it to everybody elses.
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i wasnt comparing

yes they can be used

but its less reliable them match ups

because less used characters arent fairly represented
 
Something-Unique said:
I just thought I would point out i'm the marter for no Hilde ban as i'm currently the only one supporting yall Hilde players and not attending future Koga's etc when the bans do fall in place.

However that shit is broke. I don't care which way a Hilde player tries to turn it around.

Chalk it up to whining as I don't care especially when i'm the one again supporting the current no Hilde ban. Let this community make the same mistake again. Which is why i don't care for ur opinion cause well ur Ceirnian.
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I think Cedric is right, and not just because I play Hilde. The community should wait until the game has been out for a little while. I'm sure there are a lot of changes that haven't been tested yet.
 
FoxBot: I still think Cervantes is top 5. SU asked my opinion for Cervantes and I gave it. We gave our matchup opinions, and he'll tally those opinions w/every other player. Obviously, I'm just one persons opinion and I'm fairly certain Hates will think he's top 5 also. If there are other Cervantes players that were asked, who knows what they think.

As for Taki/Raph, I have no idea who he asked. In tournaments, Hates has won tournaments with him and I just won a tournament with him 2 weeks ago with 22 people. As far as majors go, you're right, he hasn't been fully repped since me and Hates did god awful at Nats haha
 
Nori said:
FoxBot: I still think Cervantes is top 5. SU asked my opinion for Cervantes and I gave it. We gave our matchup opinions, and he'll tally those opinions w/every other player. Obviously, I'm just one persons opinion and I'm fairly certain Hates will think he's top 5 also. If there are other Cervantes players that were asked, who knows what they think.

As for Taki/Raph, I have no idea who he asked. In tournaments, Hates has won tournaments with him and I just won a tournament with him 2 weeks ago with 22 people. As far as majors go, you're right, he hasn't been fully repped since me and Hates did god awful at Nats haha
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Probably need to get a korean to play cervy to unlock his potential.
 
Too bad everybody quit over Hilde before we could unlock most of it.



I really thought I had seen everything before I witnessed Omega, Kura, etc.

People that stick with the game and rape face with characters that we all consider "low tier" or whatever. Honestly this whole tier thread doesn't even matter anymore.
 
Nofacekill3r said:
I think Cedric is right, and not just because I play Hilde. The community should wait until the game has been out for a little while. I'm sure there are a lot of changes that haven't been tested yet.
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http://www.8wayrun.com/f70/sc-bd-explained-t4744/#post144534

Its not a new game. It is what u will see when u read that thread!

Hilde is broken! I have the game and have tested damn near everything. You can even look around some of the BD; Changes character specific forums and realized their are no major damage buffs outside of Hilde. In multiple cases most characters even got nerfed.

Don't let Ceirnian fool u! I know broke when I see broke!
 
SU is probably right. I'm sure she is broken. But should she be banned? No. It's still too early to tell. IF these changes do come to console, some of them may not make it. And honestly, the only way BD will matter is if it does come to console via DLC so Namco can make more money off of us...

But broken or not, I don't agree with banning on any level. It's one of the big reasons Calibur doesn't get the same respect other fighting games do. I don't see this as any different from T4 Jin, T5 Steve or T6 Bob. Besides, you proved TWICE at nationals she CAN be beaten right SU? =)
 
At this point I do not care or no longer care on the issues of banning regardless. I just provided the info and I will mimic in the future what happens if I have to. Meaning if it does come out to console I will drop Kilik 100% and main Hilde 100% as she will no longer be an undedicated 2nd/3rd so it make no difference to me.

Though I understand ur point 100% BtG. Though I have to say if there is one character in this game that I feel will always negate the max effort I put in mentally, strategy wise etc. Its Hilde regardless if I did win at Nats twice. I also lost to RTD at NVGA once and just recently at GU in the GF's after almost closing it and u could tell no matter how smart I played it was an uphill battle character wise. That combined with someone like RTD is always gonna be a toss up imo at future tournaments if we do meet over and over again.

In the end I agree with no ban in this game but thats more so because I think its disrespectful to ur player based this far into the game when people tried to handle the issue before. SC:BD would be a fresh start but like I said above it doesn't matter to me anymore.
 
lets try to keep BD discussion in the BD forums guys. go make a BD tierlist thread in the BD forum if you want
 
Something-Unique said:
http://www.8wayrun.com/f70/sc-bd-explained-t4744/#post144534

Its not a new game. It is what u will see when u read that thread!

Hilde is broken! I have the game and have tested damn near everything. You can even look around some of the BD; Changes character specific forums and realized their are no major damage buffs outside of Hilde. In multiple cases most characters even got nerfed.

Don't let Ceirnian fool u! I know broke when I see broke!
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Correction, you have NOT tested damn near everything. You are jumping to conclusions based on the fact that you have this uncanny ability to well... jump to conclusions. Your opinion changes depending on who you lose to. Your opinion is formed based on your 'theory' otherwise. You know broke when you see broke? Then why the hell has your opinion changed so much even in sc4? Setsuka is top tier! Oh wait now that I've played her for a week she's not good! Hilde is top! Wait now I lost to Amy she must be top! Oh wait now I've lost to Hilde so... uhhh where are you now with this one?

Get the hell out of here with this crap. Your are one of the biggest knee jerkers around. Try actually spending more than a day with this game and maybe you will finally start to understand how fighting games work. If you plan to pick her up when/if the game comes to console good for you. But don't you dare start this little personal crusade that is already wearing thin. The more you take on this whining / bashing tone with the game the more you hurt the entire community. This is the type of attitude that people should NOT let fly and is whats hurting us.
 
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