1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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KingAce said:
Wtf happen to all the voldo's at Evo?
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I was thinking the same thing. Maybe they decided to use Hilde?

babalook said:
my top six would have to be hilde, algol, voldo, ivy, amy, kilik
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I understand all of them, but why Ivy? Just asking.
Do you think Setsuka would fit in right after Kilik?

Also, what about bottoms, how would you organize them? Zas, Mina, Yun, Rock, Tira, Maxi, Talim and.... Taki?



Hmm.... I know I had one more thing.... oh yeah.
What do you think Namco should do to Hilde's Doom Combo without, without completely altering the character? Because obviously they wanted the combo to exist, they just prolly didn't realize it would be broken.
 
I understand all of them, but why Ivy? Just asking.
Do you think Setsuka would fit in right after Kilik?
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Yeah I don't get it either. Just because Malek won EVO with Ivy doesn't mean she's automatically high tier. She's been floating around through mid and upper-mid for the past year, now all of the sudden she's top? The character hasn't changed.

Also, what about bottoms, how would you organize them? Zas, Mina, Yun, Rock, Tira, Maxi, Talim and.... Taki?
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The order doesn't really matter. Zas is probably at the top of shit tier and Maxi or Talim is most likely at the bottom. Yun is probably above this group. Also, why would Taki be bottom?


Hmm.... I know I had one more thing.... oh yeah.
What do you think Namco should do to Hilde's Doom Combo without, without completely altering the character? Because obviously they wanted the combo to exist, they just prolly didn't realize it would be broken.
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Apparently in SCBD the Doom combo no longer works and her ringouts have less range.

That being said, tier talk in this game always seems to end in a stalemate and it's really only important to have an idea of who's near the top and who's near the bottom. Let's see what happens with Broken Destiny before we really dig up tiers again.
 
Radar said:
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe they decided to use Hilde?




I understand all of them, but why Ivy? Just asking.
Do you think Setsuka would fit in right after Kilik?

Also, what about bottoms, how would you organize them? Zas, Mina, Yun, Rock, Tira, Maxi, Talim and.... Taki?



Hmm.... I know I had one more thing.... oh yeah.
What do you think Namco should do to Hilde's Doom Combo without, without completely altering the character? Because obviously they wanted the combo to exist, they just prolly didn't realize it would be broken.
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I'm pretty sure that combo is not there on purpose...at least not the full thing. Notice the wierd way the players fall off the edge like a plank of wood at the end of it - that screams 'glitch' to me since there is no other portion of this game were corpse sliding comes in to play. I'm positive that combo is a design error. Because of that, if Namco cleans up the juggle physics for Hilde they will fix the combo.

None of that really matters, however, since the game isn't changing any time soon unless everyone feels like holding PSP tournies. Not that that wouldn't be hilarious - 'You can tell the top players from how they respond to the pressure of being on the little screen'
 
IMO:

1) Hilde
2) Voldo
3) Ivy
Tied for 5th: Cervantes/Setsuka


Really, at this point, I could care less if people agree w/me or not. What DOES make me happy is this game is balanced enough, we are still arguing top 5, which to me is great. EVO showed the tier rankings are there for a reference, but you don't have to hang on them like the bible. I certainly don't consider Amy/Kilik/Cass top 5, yet Amy/Cass did great at Evo. And NOBODY considers Zas top 5, but Omega made him look like a champion. So let the non flaming discussion continue (hopefully)
 
Just because Rock/Tira weren't played, doesn't make them low tier. They are officially not bottom tier until it is proven they really do suck... -_-
 
Nori said:
Really, at this point, I could care less if people agree w/me or not. What DOES make me happy is this game is balanced enough, we are still arguing top 5, which to me is great. EVO showed the tier rankings are there for a reference, but you don't have to hang on them like the bible. I certainly don't consider Amy/Kilik/Cass top 5, yet Amy/Cass did great at Evo. And NOBODY considers Zas top 5, but Omega made him look like a champion. So let the non flaming discussion continue (hopefully)
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Agreed. As much bashing this game got for the story and all, Namco really did do a nice job of balancing things. (For the most part...)
 
Freaky-Styley said:
Yeah I don't get it either. Just because Malek won EVO with Ivy doesn't mean she's automatically high tier. She's been floating around through mid and upper-mid for the past year, now all of the sudden she's top? The character hasn't changed.
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I would put it more along the lines that she is such a complex character so people come with so many new ways to play her. It isn't just Malek, you have people lik Woahzz, Link, and Ring having the same success with Ivy. I think people just really underestimated how much potential Ivy has.
 
KoshTheKoala said:
Add in Amy and maybe Ivy and you have the list of what like 95% of Evo used.

To fix the doom combo:
Reduce damage by 33%, reduce knockback range by 75%.
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The reason I don't add in Ivy or Amy is because they have to work even harder than those characters I listed. I'm not saying those characters are bad or anything, but just because those players can win with her doesn't mean she's a high tier character.

The Ivy player has to break more throws, duck more throws, and in close range battle just flat out guess more than her opponent will. And not only that the characters I listed will most likely end up taking a good chunk should she guess wrong or fail to break a throw. Her mind game has to be that much deeper.

And with Hilde, she NEEDS the "Doom" combo! She needs it so bad because without that step or that "Doom" combo she would never win. Her pokes are "decent" at best, her lows are pretty bad ;she has 2a+k but that's slow as hell and so is 2a+b (even though it does have a follow up), 1k is "ok", 2k is ok, but she's not knocking you down with it or potentially killing you with it. When you're fighting Hilde the only pressure you feel is from making a round ending mistake cause on the small and medium size stages she can pretty much get you from anywhere. If you take away her step and "Doom" combo then she has nothing except low damaging frame traps (which is probably how you guys want it)

Same with Amy is Ivy, the Amy player has to do ALOT more than it looks like. How many 2b+k's will they have to do to take a comfortable lead lol. Her wake up is good but again the damage isn't high. Against the characters I listed they can fight that comfortably knowing all they have to do is just do half life guesses all day. Why do you think Thuggish lost to KDZ because KDZ has been practicing with his main Astaroth all his life and now is the time to unleash it? Nope he lost because KDZ said, " I'm going to fight him close range (cause Amy has to), and eventually he'll have to block, and the Asta mix up will kill her."

The characters I listed HAVE giant damage, good lows, good punishment, good throws, or alot of those (and in Voldo's case I would say a billion tricks as well). And for the record I have always thought Astaroth was a top 3 character in the game, not after I did well with him at EVO :)
 
D_Matt_Ma said:
Just because Rock/Tira weren't played, doesn't make them low tier. They are officially not bottom tier until it is proven they really do suck... -_-
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Well it doesn't have anything to do with evo, just from what I've heard around the forums, Rock and Tira and all those other guys just have a history at being placed at the bottom of the list.

You know, since there is a clue that the game might be patched, we really shouldn't get into tier discussions anyway, it might all be for nothing.

Just imagine, we FINALLY FINALLY come up with the perfect list where EVERYone agrees with and all argument has stopped, and then they patch the game.... severely.
 
NinjaCW said:
The Ivy player has to break more throws, duck more throws, and in close range battle just flat out guess more than her opponent will. And not only that the characters I listed will most likely end up taking a good chunk should she guess wrong or fail to break a throw. Her mind game has to be that much deeper.
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I don't know If you're an Ivy player or not, or If you have faced a lot of Ivys...but I couldn't agree more with the character overview that you posted above.

100% CORRECT

I'd also like to hear your general opinion about other characters as well.
 
Radar said:
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe they decided to use Hilde?




I understand all of them, but why Ivy? Just asking.
Do you think Setsuka would fit in right after Kilik?

Also, what about bottoms, how would you organize them? Zas, Mina, Yun, Rock, Tira, Maxi, Talim and.... Taki?



Hmm.... I know I had one more thing.... oh yeah.
What do you think Namco should do to Hilde's Doom Combo without, without completely altering the character? Because obviously they wanted the combo to exist, they just prolly didn't realize it would be broken.
Click to expand...

well i have a freind that does most of the frames for the wiki and kinda recently he did ivys frame data, once i saw some of her frames i was discusted. Especially SW with her 1K, 6B, 3B, 8B and whatnot i think ivy would be mid tier if she only had SW but she's got more than that. I'd say say she is quite well rounded nothing she has is exactally broken but id say about the majority of her moves are very solid moves. But ya id say setsuka or yoshimitsu fit right in after kilik :)
 
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