1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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Something-Unique said:
Omega:

Thank u for the compliment. Also would u mind sending me a matchup list with numbers in a pm please. No explanations needed just numbers like 3:7, 4:6, 5:5, etc. I'm limiting the numbers to nothing more than 3:7 or 7:3 so people don't go overboard. Most appreciated.

NinjaCW:

This is in regards to Setsuka since I know we are both practicing her at the moment. Currently I have down all her combos and JF's etc. at like a 90% rate. It also seems that her JF's in combos are easier to pull off. The JF's seem to have a buffering window and because of it are easier to execute. The same goes for punishing with JF Umbrella against lows but its harder to do out in the open.

After utilizing her tools and noticing what she has though I stand corrected by some of the skeptics for her placement but she is still top 5. She isn't as good as I thought. I say that because all but two of her tools do good damage through non CH hunting. 1B:B and B+K series. The rest of her damaging tools are all CH and because of it she has to work alot harder to do damage (something like T5DR steve) and even then the damage ratio is topping out at 68 outside of 4A. 1B:B is a double edged sword as it can't be spammed due to being able to GI the second hit of the string.

Also the JF's in her combos are not needed at all and missing them will only sacrifice u 2-3-Damage. That's a plus. Her throw game is kinded lame to be honest. This is because her A+G throw does not work against Xianghua and Astaroth. Against mid weight characters teching left or right can cause the Setsuka to miss the Umbrella follow up due to camera changes causing another 50/50 mixup. I have not tested against all characters so this may only apply to some but that kinda leaves her with one throw option B+G if ur smart.

Basically what do u think of her so far.

Dewgong01:

I have matchup charts to figure that out but i'm kinda lazy in finishing sending out all the requests in pm's and some have not replied etc.
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@SU - Yes sir I def noticed the things you have said. I'll post stuff later
 
@SU: Yes those characters can tech away from the A+K, but they have to do so immediately, and if I remember correctly you can use 11B as a tech trap against them, which should catch them if they tech to avoid A+KB.
 
Dewgong01 said:
So when can you make the tier list 2009?I like to try to main low tierz(Trying to main Rock)(Im finding another low tier)
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The tier list isn't hard to figure out, it goes something like this.

S Tier:Their tools are beastly and clearly stand above the rest. Usually has a WTF!? factor to their game like Hilde's RO game or Kilik's Asura/FOTD.
- Hilde, Voldo, Amy, Kilik

A Tier: Solid characters with no real weakness; They usually have considerably safe options or can deal massive amount of damage.
- Cassandra, Astaroth, Vader, Ivy, Algol

B Tier: The following are pretty much "balanced" characters. They have the tools to win, but lack certain tools that compare with S and A tier. Their game might have some holes to it.
- Siegfried, Nightmare, Sophie, Yoshimitsu, Xianghua, Mitsurugi, Cervantes, Lizardman, Setsuka, The Apprentice, Zasalamel

C Tier: These characters usually rely on gimmicks that can be beat. If the opponent knows a way around their "bullshit" they usually will come out the winner.
- Maxi, Raphael, Rock, Seong-Mina, Taki, Talim, Tira, Yun-Seong

Yoda Tier: It's fuck'n Yoda
- Yoda
 
Dewgong01:

S Class : Algol, Amy, Hilde, Kilik, Voldo

A+ Class : Cassandra, Darth Vader, Lizard Man, Ivy, Setsuka, Sophitia

A Class : Cervantes, Mitsurugi, Siegfried, Taki, Yoshimitsu

B Class : Astaroth, Nightmare, Raphael, Xianghua, Zasalamel

C Class : Maxi, Seong Mi Na, Talim, Tira, Yun Seong

D Class : Rock

This is a bonus tier list that I received from Kura the insane Korean competitor. I don't believe its in any particular order but this is something the tier list would look like even considering matchups which in all honesty would switch very few placings around from what i could tell and if so it would be minor.

Other Stuff:

I take back the claim of Setsuka being top 5 as well again but instead I have her as top 10 now. She really isn't that great and thats after learning how to effectively place her B+K series but she is still strong.

Dullyanna:

Thanks for the info as I did not know that but it only applies to astaroth since it is a tech trap for right techers. Astaroth negates the follow up for the A+G throw by teching right but if he just stays there it won't work so its still a garbage throw against him. Mid size characters change the camera around by teching left which 11B does not catch or they can just remain there to create a mixup in a camera switch. Xianghua teching left eliminates any follow up option.

So the her throw game is shitty because now u have two 50/50 mixups after trying to mixup in the throw department in the first place. Her 1A:A:A is good and unseeable but if blocked its a double edged sword because its stupid punishable (-20+Frames). So i'm not sure where I stand on that. For all the CH hunting she has to do her damage on average at 68 is kinda lame but still stronger than alot of the cast.

What she does do well though is control space. Thats a major plus.
 
I have to say, Kura's list is pretty wierd. But it seems most people agree that Amy, Kilik, Voldo, and Hilde are top 5. The only question is who really deserves to get that last spot in top 5?
 
SU: Probably not a good idea to even debate other peoples lists, otherwise the cycle will start again. Better to stick to your original plan and just wait until you have all the matchups from everybody, then add the numbers up and we'll go by that.
 
SU-Yes, stick to what you are doing. You are doing a good job at it and I applaud your efforts.

As for me I have my tiers and with BD coming along, further tier discussion may become irrelevant to me in the future but this is always interesting to compare notes ATM.

I have them as:

Top-Hilde, Voldo, Kilik

Upper-Amy, Algol, Setsuka, Ivy, Astaroth, Yoshimitsu

Mid-Cervantes, Sophitia, Xianghua, Cassandra, Vader, Lizardman, Raphael, Siegfried, Starkiller, Mitsurugi, Nightmare

Lower-Zasalamel, Taki,Tira, Yunsung, Mina, Rock

Low-Talim, Maxi, Yoda

ATM.

Question, will you work on this again when BD arrives? Hopefully yes.

Oops, edited.
 
Omega said:
Please leave hilde out of the tier list she doesnt belong there , dont know where she belongs but is not in any tier list never seen a char so ridiculus as her in a Fighting game.
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play a fighting game made by midway... you'll see plenty of them.
 
Something-Unique said:
Dewgong01:

S Class : Algol, Amy, Hilde, Kilik, Voldo

A+ Class : Cassandra, Darth Vader, Lizard Man, Ivy, Setsuka, Sophitia

A Class : Cervantes, Mitsurugi, Siegfried, Taki, Yoshimitsu

B Class : Astaroth, Nightmare, Raphael, Xianghua, Zasalamel

C Class : Maxi, Seong Mi Na, Talim, Tira, Yun Seong

D Class : Rock

This is a bonus tier list that I received from Kura the insane Korean competitor. I don't believe its in any particular order but this is something the tier list would look like even considering matchups which in all honesty would switch very few placings around from what i could tell and if so it would be minor.

Other Stuff:

I take back the claim of Setsuka being top 5 as well again but instead I have her as top 10 now. She really isn't that great and thats after learning how to effectively place her B+K series but she is still strong.

Dullyanna:

Thanks for the info as I did not know that but it only applies to astaroth since it is a tech trap for right techers. Astaroth negates the follow up for the A+G throw by teching right but if he just stays there it won't work so its still a garbage throw against him. Mid size characters change the camera around by teching left which 11B does not catch or they can just remain there to create a mixup in a camera switch. Xianghua teching left eliminates any follow up option.

So the her throw game is shitty because now u have two 50/50 mixups after trying to mixup in the throw department in the first place. Her 1A:A:A is good and unseeable but if blocked its a double edged sword because its stupid punishable (-20+Frames). So i'm not sure where I stand on that. For all the CH hunting she has to do her damage on average at 68 is kinda lame but still stronger than alot of the cast.

What she does do well though is control space. Thats a major plus.
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Thank you for the tier list, but why Amy is Top 5 ?!?(I think she deserves to be in the B class).
 
Godtier : Hilde
S Class : Amy, Voldo, Kilik
A+ Class : Yoshimitsu, Lizardman, Cassandra, Setsuka, Sophitia, Ivy
A Class: Nightmare, Zasalamel, Astaroth, Siegfried, Mitsurugi, Raphael, Xianghua, Yun Seong, Cervantes
B Class: Talim, Tira, Seong Mina, Maxi
Joketier: Rock :'(
 
OOFMATIC said:
I have to say, Kura's list is pretty wierd. But it seems most people agree that Amy, Kilik, Voldo, and Hilde are top 5. The only question is who really deserves to get that last spot in top 5?
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Yes I'm surprised Kura would rate Taki up so high. Whats the reason? Especially when everybody seem to agree that Asta and X are uphill matches for Taki.
 
Artilust said:
Id love for BD do come out on PS3. With no Re-launch Hilde is going to plummet to the bottom.
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Her charges still have good frames and will still RO, so it's not like she's becoming useless. 44K is changing it's knockback to kill the C2B pickup, but you can still relauch after C3A iirc. Pretty sure they won't be giving her any Talim treatment.
 
Artilust said:
Id love for BD do come out on PS3. With no Re-launch Hilde is going to plummet to the bottom.
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me and a friend talked yesterday about Hildes placement in the tier list after her BD changes.
i´m pretty sure she´ll be top 5, or at least top 10, in the game. she´ll have 100dmg combos from her C3B still, and i´m guessing she gets to keep her awesome step also. no way that she´ll become bottom tier.
well, unless they buff the hell out of everyone else. :)
 
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