4B (everything you need to know about it)

hotnikkelz

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
Well it's about time.
Everyone knows what is 4B and what it does, so no need to explain all that, so i'm just oging to throw numbers at you all. The rest is up to on how you go about applying it.

4B -> LO
i18
bs +8
hs +17
chs +20

4BG -> neutral
bs -18 (unsafe)
hs -8 (safe)
chs -6 (safe)


Notice you get more adv on CH than normal hit.
In my research, i discovered that general looping from stance to stance is just about a standard 17 frames with the exception of LO -> RC which takes 21 frames to complete.

4B psl1 BL
4B psl2 LI
4B psl3 RO
4B neutral RC

The fastest attacks of each of these stance respectively are
BL B i16
LI A i16
RO A i14
RC A i18

Doing the math, 4B on normal hit psl2 LI A trades with i16 and beats anything slower. On CH now, 4B psl2 LI A trades with i14!! and beats anything slower (duh). Hence it is important Maxi players to have some foresight on HOW they hit to capitalize on their adv. Conveniently BL B is also i16 and it will trade with i16 attacks just as with LI A, when 4B hits.

Some advice
4B on block, LO A and LO B are great choices, LO A is very evasive and it's safe, LO B uninterruptable but can be dangerous. 4B -> LO A is my go to string even on hit at times cuz it evades so well.
4B psl2 LI B, is another of my favorite go to strings, because it can evade fast Bs, and fast As with LI B post block. It works better on block than on hit. Charge the LI B slightly to get the TC in it.
Use discretion for all the other shifts, and read your opponent well to garner results.
My opponents tend to be very aggressive so they always seem to attack regardless of my conditioning, but yours might be more patient, allowing you to use BL more frequently capitalising on the time adv you get for their hesitation.
 
I don't understand why you would do a lot of that though. If i hit with 4B, i'm gonna go for LO BK every single time. Hard to pass up on free damage plus frame advantage. On block is where i start thinking about mix-ups off of 4B.
 
The problem is that 4B on hit is not hit confirmable to the LO BK. Unless it's a block/whiff punish, or you have ESP.

pretty sure 4B (hit) LO A is uninterruptible
 
uber:
Yeah it's hard to hit confirm the 4B and reflexively do 4BBK. It's of course very easy on CH, but on normal hit, one frame off and they can block it. Also 4BBK is pretty boring, and is like no flare in it at all. Fast characters like X and Amy and so on can turn that +2 on u easily. I personally believe in doing MANY things, that way they never get 'accustomed' to countering any one thing. The thread is mainly for general info anyway, choose to use or not ;)

Taimat:
Nah, you can interrupt him from LO A, i've been interrupted before just can't remember who, and with what....haven't been on CH though.

I love 4B -> LI heh
i love LI B, i love LI, i really love LI
 
hotnikkelz said:
Some advice
4B on block, LO A and LO B are great choices, LO A is very evasive and it's safe, LO B uninterruptable but can be dangerous.
Click to expand...

I want you to confirm that LO B, on regular hit, is safe, unlike previous games. -loc And that 4B, LO K is not a reliable juggle. =)
 
I confirmed it with you already, you've forgot! :/
LO B on hit is -11~-12 which is safe enough imo. Absolutely horrid on block though of course haha

Yes i've mentioned many times 4B LO K is an unreliable juggle haha.
 
hotnikkelz said:
I confirmed it with you already, you've forgot! :/
LO B on hit is -11~-12 which is safe enough imo. Absolutely horrid on block though of course haha
Click to expand...

I find weird that LO B is -11 or -12 on hit, it's very weird, unless it is designed to be that way specifically. For instance, 33bA is "unsafe" on block; Yoshi can punish you with AA, and Amy can 66B you if you hold G to block. I haven't forgotten.

Could you check if LO B is +5 on hit into RC? Just like AA or 336bA on block. If not, then it's specifically made to be safe on hit, which is weird, and it wouldn't be probaly the only attack like that.

I also wanted to people know about this, so they can do, once in a while, 4BB (without the K).
 
Fhwoarang said:
I find weird that LO B is -11 or -12 on hit, it's very weird, unless it is designed to be that way specifically. For instance, 33bA is "unsafe" on block; Yoshi can punish you with AA, and Amy can 66B you if you hold G to block. I haven't forgotten.

Could you check if LO B is +5 on hit into RC? Just like AA or 336bA on block. If not, then it's specifically made to be safe on hit, which is weird, and it wouldn't be probaly the only attack like that.

I also wanted to people know about this, so they can do, once in a while, 4BB (without the K).
Click to expand...

You find that weird good? or weird bad?
Amy can definitely punish LO B on hit. Sophie's i12 A struggles to punish it. mos AAs aren't in range unless blocked deep, which is a good thing, besides they may hesitate cuz of the K followup i guess.
I think it was a deliberate thing by Namco

Lo B isn't +5 on hit at all. RC A is pretty easy to interrupt. If it were +5 then only i13s would be able to interrupt RC A. Sadly that isn't the case. Ill give exact numbers when i recheck. I think it's important to know that you can do LO B without risking the kick sometimes too. Cuz I personally can duck that kick almost 100%
 
hotnikkelz said:
You find that weird good? or weird bad?
Click to expand...

Don't ge me wrong, it's a good thing, but it's still weird because most of these loop type attacks take similar time to cancel. RO B is like -18 on block (-2 in RC); 33bA is -11 on block (+5 on block) ; most of the RC transitions, if not all of them, are unsafe, except with big frame advantage. So LO B being -11 on hit (but not very positive either) means that this a special made up cancel (because he is getting out of RC sooner, unless he can block while still in RC) and perhaps there are more than this one.

I think only a+bG, on hit, could be considered safe on hit, since it's +8~+7 on hit.

hotnikkelz said:
I think it was a deliberate thing by Namco
Click to expand...
Yeah, I would like to think that too, but I bet there are more places where they made this; or maybe not.
 
hmm i see what u're saying.

RO B is more like -16~-15 for sure. That's very important to note ;)
44AB is like -14~-15

and yeah when in RC, you gotta use the RC attacks, unfortunately. I find RC B on block should be safe, but it's not at all. VERY deliberate by Namco.
 
CH 4B > LO A is uninterruptible (tested trying to interrupt with maxi's own 2A), just to confirm that
 
in maxi's case very important especially for 6A and 4B and WS B cuz that additional 2 frames or so make a huge difference ;)
 
It appears that from various tests doing a loop from 4B makes 4B a bit safer than doing 4BG
4B psl3 G and 4B psl1 G are both equally safe. Like 4 frames safer than 4BG.
Naturally doing psl2 G is not an option for making it safer cuz LI has to go to BL before neutral so that's the most unsafe.

I'd probably update the first post with 6A and 3B stuff...so that the thread wouldn't revolve around just 4B.
 
So I was playing around with this last night, and its hard to tell, but for psl3 its pretty cool. I started experimenting with this for other loop transitions, but i didn't see anything that looked conclusively faster like the RO -> PSL3 || PSL1 transition (the || is an OR expression). I think we could do this conclusively if we looked up the PSL transition tables and see which ones get short cutted. too bad I don't know those by heart yet...:)
 
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