- Moderator
- #21
WuHT
Premium Moderator
Definately people will be talking about this situation after nationals, and every point there should be valid.
Abusive moderation on this site
- Thread starter Papy_Danone
- Start date
JetSetDizzy
[11] Champion
Lol the Algol points in the thread you referenced were very shallow and totally subjective. You say if you start a combo you earned it and there should not be a way to interupt the combo or its unfair. Where did you pull this nonsensical rule from? Plenty of other games have ways to interupt combos. Testament's nets in GG, Dizzy's fish in GG, some of Carl's puppet moves in BB, burst in GG BB and TvC, Rolento's super that they always use in combo vids to reset combos from CVS2, Heck shaking stuns and using super armor moves could be thrown in with that logic. You didn't earn the combo if you didn't pay enough attention to where the bubble was. Heck you could do the same thing back to him with a reflected bubble.
There was nothing abusive about the modderation in the thread you specified.
There was nothing abusive about the modderation in the thread you specified.
mikosu
Goderator of pink hearts
So this is about the Hilde/Algol threads getting closed? Can't say I know of any power abuse since I don't watch everyone. My suggestion is to turn this into the Hilde/Algol discussion thread so whoever wants to can vent. Anyone annoyed by the topic doesn't have to read. I personally am fine with Hilde. I'm a sucker for a challenge.
IgnisPhaseOne
[09] Warrior
What do you want? More of these threads polluting our boards?
If you flood the forums with "Ban Hilde/Algol" threads, will it actually happen?
If we counter-flood with "Banning Hilde/Algol is for Noobs" threads, will you guys actually learn how to play?
If every thread contains one part of the discussion, will both sides ever get to see all the information in one place, the WHOLE PURPOSE of this site?
If one thread bloats up with too much discussion and trolling, will everyone ignore it because we've lost our heads in emotion when facts/evidence are key here?
If moderators are lax, do you want trolls, rudeness, idiocy, lies, deceit running rampant on the boards?
If the moderators are too strict, do you only want the most brilliant, best, perfect, arrogant players' posts to be recognized?
THERE IS A TRADE-OFF. ALWAYS.
You do not get what you want, all the time. You don't. I have my own ideas of what I want in my many dichotamies (sp) that I presented up there. But it's not my place to decide; I don't run this forum. Our community does.
And, sometimes, communities don't trust their mods, and mods don't trust their communities. And there's always reason. But nobody is going to get what they want, all the time, take your happy medium of 4-5 different threads that degenerate into Hilde/Algol ban threads, and don't complain when the rest of the community doesn't want to see 10 or 12 of the threads. We'll respect the fact that our community thinks it's important to bring Hilde/Algol ban discussions in the 4-5 threads where they don't belong (in non "BanHildeAlgol" threads), and you leave the leaders of this community alone when they've had enough of you making even more threads about the same subject in derailed threads all over the forum.
*sigh* We're all tired of dealing with the same shit, the bazillion threads, the derailments, the whining, all of it. That's why we're so up tight. Notice how it used to be civil a few months ago? A few months is a long time guys; everyone's on edge, we all need to take chill pills (myself included, look at this goddamned post!) and just, let nationals finish. We can change the rules afterwards, we can have more discussions afterwards.
Let's just be a community. Problems happen, it'll get dealt with.
If you flood the forums with "Ban Hilde/Algol" threads, will it actually happen?
If we counter-flood with "Banning Hilde/Algol is for Noobs" threads, will you guys actually learn how to play?
If every thread contains one part of the discussion, will both sides ever get to see all the information in one place, the WHOLE PURPOSE of this site?
If one thread bloats up with too much discussion and trolling, will everyone ignore it because we've lost our heads in emotion when facts/evidence are key here?
If moderators are lax, do you want trolls, rudeness, idiocy, lies, deceit running rampant on the boards?
If the moderators are too strict, do you only want the most brilliant, best, perfect, arrogant players' posts to be recognized?
THERE IS A TRADE-OFF. ALWAYS.
You do not get what you want, all the time. You don't. I have my own ideas of what I want in my many dichotamies (sp) that I presented up there. But it's not my place to decide; I don't run this forum. Our community does.
And, sometimes, communities don't trust their mods, and mods don't trust their communities. And there's always reason. But nobody is going to get what they want, all the time, take your happy medium of 4-5 different threads that degenerate into Hilde/Algol ban threads, and don't complain when the rest of the community doesn't want to see 10 or 12 of the threads. We'll respect the fact that our community thinks it's important to bring Hilde/Algol ban discussions in the 4-5 threads where they don't belong (in non "BanHildeAlgol" threads), and you leave the leaders of this community alone when they've had enough of you making even more threads about the same subject in derailed threads all over the forum.
*sigh* We're all tired of dealing with the same shit, the bazillion threads, the derailments, the whining, all of it. That's why we're so up tight. Notice how it used to be civil a few months ago? A few months is a long time guys; everyone's on edge, we all need to take chill pills (myself included, look at this goddamned post!) and just, let nationals finish. We can change the rules afterwards, we can have more discussions afterwards.
Let's just be a community. Problems happen, it'll get dealt with.
Hey everybody. I'm a long-time sc.com/caliburforum lurker who pretty much stopped checking online when caliburforum got emptied (also I've been playing less since I returned to university.) I know I have no reputation here, but I've spent the last few days catching up on the forum. For what it's worth, I really do consider myself to be even more outside the community than I used to be: I haven't played enough recently to offer anyone solid advice, I don't go to tournies or meet-ups (I really should start...) At this point, I *seriously* have no opinion on what's ban-worthy or not given the current climate. In a week that might be different, but it's not coloring my opinion one way or the other right now.
Why am I choosing this as my first post? Because I noticed what Papy's talking about doing the speed-read of the board the last couple days. This issue sticks out, and even for a lurker it keeps getting in the way of actual business. Is the moderation 'abusive'? Nah, I don't think so. The problem is something else.
Something-Unique opened his Algol/Hilde thread the other day with the obvious intent to reset the conversation with civility; he had a point (low turnout,) he had supportive evidence (going to the tournies,) and he didn't open up with an agenda. I've been reading the site for three days, and from what I've seen it's clear to *everyone* involved that there won't be any community-wide change in rules until after Nats. Ok, fine, point taken - given the general opinion of everyone around, SU obviously didn't think his repeated opening of these threads would actually cause a policy-reversal. I don't want to start guessing at what people "mean" to do, but if I had to guess in the majority of these conversations I see three things happening repeatedly:
1.) A person wants to vent about Algol/Hilde/whatever. A thread opens up where people vent. Eventually insults are traded because somone disagrees (either on a mechanical or ideological level.) The anti-Algol/Hilde posters are driven by a desire to express their frustration not at the community rules, but at the actual state of the game (not the metagame, the video game.) They're mostly saying "the game would be better if..." (useless, I know, but that's what venting's about.) Someone retorts with "but it's not going to magically change, so deal with it / you suck at the game if you can't beat <whomever>." This completely dismisses the original posters' observations and feelings. I mean, sure, it's useless talk, but when people start actually punking the complainers, they're doing two things: they're changing the conversation from one about the game to one about the posters (getting called out as a 'pussy' sucks,) and they're forcing the same conversation to go elsewhere. I mean, people are annoyed right now by Algol and Hilde. Repeating "nothing will change until after Nats" won't make people want to talk about it less.
2.) The above situation creates an "underdog" effect. Something-Unique wasn't posting mindlessly, the way I see it he was being more of a whistle-blower. "Ok, so we're not going to change rules until after Nats... but what if my local tournies go from 30-40 man attendance two months ago to maybe 5 people two months from now, and the only negative feedback is on this issue? What then?" That's a legitimate concern if unexaggerated (it sounds unlikely to me, but I have no idea if it's that bad.) And it's not whining. That's the key issue there: sure, the same kind of cattiness eventually entered that thread as every other - and that was the problem. The originating issue really could have been explored further - and the thread probably shouldn't have been closed on the basis of "old argument". The offending posts should have been excised with strictness, and if the original topic actually engendered a healthy conversation it would have continued naturally. If not, it would have died naturally. By using the broad anti-whining stick on it, it just furthered the sense of bias against any conversation (legitimate or otherwise) that includes as a component the Algol/Hilde issue.
3.) I really haven't noticed authority coming down on the equally numerous replies calling out the "scrubs" who want to complain. It's totally safe to continue (and even reset) the whole damn conversation by insulting/dismissing the anti-Algol/Hilde crowd. The threads don't go on because everybody involved keeps agreeing with each other enthusiastically, they go on when someone comes in and stirs the pot by announcing how irrelevent the discussion is. I don't know who this could be fun for, and I totally respect those who are simply trying to get this whole headache to end - but that's not the way to end it. This conversation isn't totally cluttering the boards right now, but it's expanding because there is that back and forth. Just give the people who want to vent a forum to do it, don't close it, and stop condemning the "whiners" for reacting when they're repeatedly poked with impunity by agitators who really shouldn't read the thread to begin with if it bothers them that much.
To sum up, I think all the bitch-slapping is extremely counter-productive. Closing the "Is Algol Cheap?" thread will only cause people to post the same damn things elsewhere on the board, where they will have 20 people replying telling them that they suck or having a mod close the thread. It's not a huge issue yet, but it's chaff when it's just littered all over the place. The way to stop its spread is to give it a safe partition, and come down equally on the provocateurs from both sides of the aisle when it comes up in places it shouldn't be.
Anyway, if I've offended anyone, I'm sorry. I know that I don't really have a name or a place here yet, but I'm sure I'm not the only lurker who comes here to get solid info on the game, so consider this an outsider's opinion: seeing this same thing come up in different places is a bit of a turn-off. I get what everybody's saying, and it's not anyone's opinions that bother me; it's the level of noise due to the constant give and take between posters.
Why am I choosing this as my first post? Because I noticed what Papy's talking about doing the speed-read of the board the last couple days. This issue sticks out, and even for a lurker it keeps getting in the way of actual business. Is the moderation 'abusive'? Nah, I don't think so. The problem is something else.
Something-Unique opened his Algol/Hilde thread the other day with the obvious intent to reset the conversation with civility; he had a point (low turnout,) he had supportive evidence (going to the tournies,) and he didn't open up with an agenda. I've been reading the site for three days, and from what I've seen it's clear to *everyone* involved that there won't be any community-wide change in rules until after Nats. Ok, fine, point taken - given the general opinion of everyone around, SU obviously didn't think his repeated opening of these threads would actually cause a policy-reversal. I don't want to start guessing at what people "mean" to do, but if I had to guess in the majority of these conversations I see three things happening repeatedly:
1.) A person wants to vent about Algol/Hilde/whatever. A thread opens up where people vent. Eventually insults are traded because somone disagrees (either on a mechanical or ideological level.) The anti-Algol/Hilde posters are driven by a desire to express their frustration not at the community rules, but at the actual state of the game (not the metagame, the video game.) They're mostly saying "the game would be better if..." (useless, I know, but that's what venting's about.) Someone retorts with "but it's not going to magically change, so deal with it / you suck at the game if you can't beat <whomever>." This completely dismisses the original posters' observations and feelings. I mean, sure, it's useless talk, but when people start actually punking the complainers, they're doing two things: they're changing the conversation from one about the game to one about the posters (getting called out as a 'pussy' sucks,) and they're forcing the same conversation to go elsewhere. I mean, people are annoyed right now by Algol and Hilde. Repeating "nothing will change until after Nats" won't make people want to talk about it less.
2.) The above situation creates an "underdog" effect. Something-Unique wasn't posting mindlessly, the way I see it he was being more of a whistle-blower. "Ok, so we're not going to change rules until after Nats... but what if my local tournies go from 30-40 man attendance two months ago to maybe 5 people two months from now, and the only negative feedback is on this issue? What then?" That's a legitimate concern if unexaggerated (it sounds unlikely to me, but I have no idea if it's that bad.) And it's not whining. That's the key issue there: sure, the same kind of cattiness eventually entered that thread as every other - and that was the problem. The originating issue really could have been explored further - and the thread probably shouldn't have been closed on the basis of "old argument". The offending posts should have been excised with strictness, and if the original topic actually engendered a healthy conversation it would have continued naturally. If not, it would have died naturally. By using the broad anti-whining stick on it, it just furthered the sense of bias against any conversation (legitimate or otherwise) that includes as a component the Algol/Hilde issue.
3.) I really haven't noticed authority coming down on the equally numerous replies calling out the "scrubs" who want to complain. It's totally safe to continue (and even reset) the whole damn conversation by insulting/dismissing the anti-Algol/Hilde crowd. The threads don't go on because everybody involved keeps agreeing with each other enthusiastically, they go on when someone comes in and stirs the pot by announcing how irrelevent the discussion is. I don't know who this could be fun for, and I totally respect those who are simply trying to get this whole headache to end - but that's not the way to end it. This conversation isn't totally cluttering the boards right now, but it's expanding because there is that back and forth. Just give the people who want to vent a forum to do it, don't close it, and stop condemning the "whiners" for reacting when they're repeatedly poked with impunity by agitators who really shouldn't read the thread to begin with if it bothers them that much.
To sum up, I think all the bitch-slapping is extremely counter-productive. Closing the "Is Algol Cheap?" thread will only cause people to post the same damn things elsewhere on the board, where they will have 20 people replying telling them that they suck or having a mod close the thread. It's not a huge issue yet, but it's chaff when it's just littered all over the place. The way to stop its spread is to give it a safe partition, and come down equally on the provocateurs from both sides of the aisle when it comes up in places it shouldn't be.
Anyway, if I've offended anyone, I'm sorry. I know that I don't really have a name or a place here yet, but I'm sure I'm not the only lurker who comes here to get solid info on the game, so consider this an outsider's opinion: seeing this same thing come up in different places is a bit of a turn-off. I get what everybody's saying, and it's not anyone's opinions that bother me; it's the level of noise due to the constant give and take between posters.
IgnisPhaseOne
[09] Warrior
Welcome to the forums.
This really shouldn't be your first post, IMO; you'll probably think we're a bunch of assholes!
(Secret tip! Some of us are! You all know who you are.)
(Yes. You do. You're reading this like you don't know it's you. You know.)
I tried to point out the balance just by showing both situations; I think you described them better than I did in my opposing points view.
But when moderators start getting harsh, people's egos get hurt, or they need some cheese with their whine, and then all hell breaks loose and the cycle starts anew. Someone's got to break that cycle. If that happens, well then, we've got ourselves a civil discussion and some real answers/evidence people can use for planning next year's events.
Otherwise, I'm just going to ride out the shit storm with everyone else.
This really shouldn't be your first post, IMO; you'll probably think we're a bunch of assholes!
(Secret tip! Some of us are! You all know who you are.)
(Yes. You do. You're reading this like you don't know it's you. You know.)
I tried to point out the balance just by showing both situations; I think you described them better than I did in my opposing points view.
But when moderators start getting harsh, people's egos get hurt, or they need some cheese with their whine, and then all hell breaks loose and the cycle starts anew. Someone's got to break that cycle. If that happens, well then, we've got ourselves a civil discussion and some real answers/evidence people can use for planning next year's events.
Otherwise, I'm just going to ride out the shit storm with everyone else.
Thanks Ignis, it feels good to be online posting about SC again. Hopefully I'll get to play with any of you guys from the Seattle area sooner rather than later. I do remember a lot of people from the old days, don't know if anyone would remember me though. :)
Not to hijack the thread, but you do bring up a good point. It's easy for people to get along, even with assholes, even assholes getting along with other assholes. The key is to have a greater purpose to the communication; in this case, getting better at Soul Calibur and sharing stories with others who enjoy the game. I was honest when I said this issue is enough to be noticeable (and irritating) to a lurker, but it has little to do with people being assholes... just people not realizing what the other person is trying to communicate, or communicating the wrong thing to keep the "greater debate" intact and useful.
Not to hijack the thread, but you do bring up a good point. It's easy for people to get along, even with assholes, even assholes getting along with other assholes. The key is to have a greater purpose to the communication; in this case, getting better at Soul Calibur and sharing stories with others who enjoy the game. I was honest when I said this issue is enough to be noticeable (and irritating) to a lurker, but it has little to do with people being assholes... just people not realizing what the other person is trying to communicate, or communicating the wrong thing to keep the "greater debate" intact and useful.
Soupy
[09] Warrior
lol wow all this for a closed thread, dear god....
SOUPY DOES NOT APPROVE!
if you want to complain about a thread being closed that's just -_o
also why poke at something to create a arguement or post your own ideas/fantasies in the thread when hardly anyone will listen and it will be just stacked under post after post?
SOUPY DOES NOT APPROVE!
if you want to complain about a thread being closed that's just -_o
also why poke at something to create a arguement or post your own ideas/fantasies in the thread when hardly anyone will listen and it will be just stacked under post after post?
Plume
[09] Warrior
Facts and evidences are not key.
Something-Unique is arguing that Hilde and Algol are causing problems because most people won't accept them. (Hell, so have I been.)
Then Cernian or whatever his name is and his followers argue that Hilde is not broken. (Same for Algol).
See the problem here?
Actually, who do you think are the trolls?
Archangel
Team heaT
Um. Evidence is key in any argument. Otherwise it just degenerates into a yelling match.
Great post, Swithin.
Great post, Swithin.
ShenOu
[10] Knight
Wow its taken me forever to see this thread.
First things first, Swithin, fantastic post. I really like the perspective you brought to the table, you've contributed a lot. Welcome to 8wr.
Papy_Danone: I'm presuming you're referring to the thread in the Algol forum.
As an Algol player and a Kilik player.. As well as someone who played against Hilde for the first 4 months of this game's life.. I've had more than enough of people telling me that characters I play are cheap and should be banned. Or characters I don't have problems dealing with are broken and should be banned.. (Also, they just say I suck because I don't play against a Hilde good enough to abuse her broke-ness).
Long story short, when you want to speak NEGATIVELY about a character... The worse place to start is the bloody Soul Arena FOR that character. That aside, I see where you're coming from and I'd like to re-use Fuzion's 3-second Analogy.
If let's say you were to start playing Basketball last weekend, and you felt that the 3-second rule was bullshit. You decide to bring it up amongst a community who's been for it for the longest time. But they ignore you. Why? Not because they think you suck (although in this situation I would label you a whiner as well) but because you are kicking on a dead horse. You're late to the party, don't complain that there isn't any beer left. If it were an overwhelming problem, and there is enough backing and evidence to support a change, would the NBA implement the change immediately? Or wait till the end of the season? The reasoning behind the whole "No ban talk till after evo/nats" is somewhere along these lines. Forgive me if my analogy is iffy, I'm trying to adapt it to Fuzion's.
That being said, I agree with those that say an avenue SHOULD be opened up for people to discuss in a CIVIL manner. Can this avenue be found on 8wr? I don't see a problem. I even cleaned up the original "Serious Thread" that SU brought up, removing all the troll posts.. (Here's some fun statistics, I deleted 42 out of 62 posts from that thread, 60% bullshit saturation) Hey! It looks like a pretty healthy discussion, my "thread closed" post looks dumb as hell too, now that there isn't 10 posts of namecalling and trolling above it. Personally though, I think it would be fruitless, because such discussion requires evidence to back it up, we're talking about changing the game mechanics here.
Personal Opinion doesn't cut it as Evidence, I'd want to see tournament results, gameplay footage from events where every player and spectator can be assured that those events were graced by players who MATTERED. All we've been getting from the countless threads and posts is Personal Opinion. Evidence was weak, arguments were made using footage of people losing to Hilde or Algol, when they had never played against those characters before. Where would we get such footage from? Monthlys? Regardless of how good the standard of play is, Monthly's will always be considered "small" to the eyes of a lot of people. That's only going to bring up more comments like "So and So doesn't know how to play.. These are just results from "small" tournaments"..
How about Regionals? Nationals? Evo? I would like to see evidence coming from such events myself.
When can we get this evidence? Oh yeah, we'll have to wait for Regionals/Nationals/Evo to pass eh?
First things first, Swithin, fantastic post. I really like the perspective you brought to the table, you've contributed a lot. Welcome to 8wr.
Papy_Danone: I'm presuming you're referring to the thread in the Algol forum.
As an Algol player and a Kilik player.. As well as someone who played against Hilde for the first 4 months of this game's life.. I've had more than enough of people telling me that characters I play are cheap and should be banned. Or characters I don't have problems dealing with are broken and should be banned.. (Also, they just say I suck because I don't play against a Hilde good enough to abuse her broke-ness).
Long story short, when you want to speak NEGATIVELY about a character... The worse place to start is the bloody Soul Arena FOR that character. That aside, I see where you're coming from and I'd like to re-use Fuzion's 3-second Analogy.
If let's say you were to start playing Basketball last weekend, and you felt that the 3-second rule was bullshit. You decide to bring it up amongst a community who's been for it for the longest time. But they ignore you. Why? Not because they think you suck (although in this situation I would label you a whiner as well) but because you are kicking on a dead horse. You're late to the party, don't complain that there isn't any beer left. If it were an overwhelming problem, and there is enough backing and evidence to support a change, would the NBA implement the change immediately? Or wait till the end of the season? The reasoning behind the whole "No ban talk till after evo/nats" is somewhere along these lines. Forgive me if my analogy is iffy, I'm trying to adapt it to Fuzion's.
That being said, I agree with those that say an avenue SHOULD be opened up for people to discuss in a CIVIL manner. Can this avenue be found on 8wr? I don't see a problem. I even cleaned up the original "Serious Thread" that SU brought up, removing all the troll posts.. (Here's some fun statistics, I deleted 42 out of 62 posts from that thread, 60% bullshit saturation) Hey! It looks like a pretty healthy discussion, my "thread closed" post looks dumb as hell too, now that there isn't 10 posts of namecalling and trolling above it. Personally though, I think it would be fruitless, because such discussion requires evidence to back it up, we're talking about changing the game mechanics here.
Personal Opinion doesn't cut it as Evidence, I'd want to see tournament results, gameplay footage from events where every player and spectator can be assured that those events were graced by players who MATTERED. All we've been getting from the countless threads and posts is Personal Opinion. Evidence was weak, arguments were made using footage of people losing to Hilde or Algol, when they had never played against those characters before. Where would we get such footage from? Monthlys? Regardless of how good the standard of play is, Monthly's will always be considered "small" to the eyes of a lot of people. That's only going to bring up more comments like "So and So doesn't know how to play.. These are just results from "small" tournaments"..
How about Regionals? Nationals? Evo? I would like to see evidence coming from such events myself.
When can we get this evidence? Oh yeah, we'll have to wait for Regionals/Nationals/Evo to pass eh?
OuTk@sT
[09] Warrior
Mikosu is a moderator, he abuses me all the time.
I have bruises.
I have bruises.
Serge2HOT4U
[09] Warrior
IdleMind
BANNED FOREVER
I'm just posting to comment that Sean Avery is a giant dickhead and Serge's post is amazingly relavent to this discussion.
-Idle
-Idle
InfestedLoli
[09] Warrior
lobo said:
Lobo you win the internet
DrHobo
[09] Warrior
This happens on almost every forum of the internet. Not saying that's an excuse, some moderations I've seen have been blatantly unfair (a couple of them almost seemed like the moderator just felt like moderating something.)
But you couldn't spend a notable amount of time on a forum without seeing a moderation that is just plain laughable.
As for easily countering algol's bubbles. as a maxi player, it's not easy, not easy at all.
Oh yeah I can try impacting them, and right as I do that he can do his little front flip stance A.
Or I can step like a mad man and take about 15 of the 60 seconds to get close enough to even try anything without getting hit by bubbles.then there is still the issue of actually getting an attack in before a bubble hits me or he A+Ks behind me (and if he should do it right as I input for the attack then I'm going to at the very least get a bubble up the ass.
Is Algol cheap? I don't think so. Is he unbalanced? In my opinion, yes, but only very little. (I've never encountered an algol player who could consistently beat me that wasn't clearly just better than me.)
What I'm trying to say is don't call the bubbles easy to get around, I may be able to get by them very easily with say...Cervantes. But Maxi and Rock is a whole other story.
But you couldn't spend a notable amount of time on a forum without seeing a moderation that is just plain laughable.
As for easily countering algol's bubbles. as a maxi player, it's not easy, not easy at all.
Oh yeah I can try impacting them, and right as I do that he can do his little front flip stance A.
Or I can step like a mad man and take about 15 of the 60 seconds to get close enough to even try anything without getting hit by bubbles.then there is still the issue of actually getting an attack in before a bubble hits me or he A+Ks behind me (and if he should do it right as I input for the attack then I'm going to at the very least get a bubble up the ass.
Is Algol cheap? I don't think so. Is he unbalanced? In my opinion, yes, but only very little. (I've never encountered an algol player who could consistently beat me that wasn't clearly just better than me.)
What I'm trying to say is don't call the bubbles easy to get around, I may be able to get by them very easily with say...Cervantes. But Maxi and Rock is a whole other story.
IgnisPhaseOne
[09] Warrior
a) Yes, yes they are. You're foolish if you think "something is powerful" without having thought of every single countermeasure.
b) Hilde and Algol are causing problems because people won't accept them? What is the problem, are you too good with them? Are your opponents just not as good as you are? What are you arguing?
Someone makes a thread about the "future of Soul Calibur", asking how its future iterations will change the series.
The pack of anti-Hilde/Algol idiots swarm it, bitching about how Hilde/Algol are killing SC4 and its future. (Yes, I loaded this statement. Deal with it.)
See the problem here?
THERE'S ALWAYS TWO SIDES. If you refuse to see the other side, you're as good as a troll in my opinion. Just because I'm on one side, doesn't mean I'm not listening to what you people are saying. Yes, we know Hilde is really powerful. Yes, I do know that she may be destroying the current SC4 scene. Yes, I think there are some solutions (barring Namco patching her which will never happen) that we as the community can employ. But, dear god guys, fucking keep it in ONE PLACE. I'm willing to read through two or three threads. Not ten or fifteen, and not derailed ones. Christ in a basket...
c) Who are the trolls? YOU ARE! The people who refuse to listen to others. That's the definition of a troll, too stupid to understand anybody else telling them something. I'm not a troll; I give my opinion, and listen to yours; it doesn't have to change mine, but god damnit if you don't listen and post a response, you're no better than a rock. (or Rock.) My opinion of Hilde has changed, she's still my main, but I've been trying to find balanced ways to tone her down and still make her "fun to play." I'm glad some civil people presented a bunch of evidence to me, not of her broken-ness (she ain't broke), but her not-fun-to-play-against-ness (nobody can beat me as Hilde locally, even when I play any other charcter). I get it second hand; it's never any contest for them. It's also cause I'm very good compared to most of my local players, but still, I've been listening. The locals have been whining, I tell them that if they want to play tourney level, they'll have to play against me and Hilde. They don't want that, they want fun; I play X or Kilik (har har) instead. Or I goof off as Hilde.
But I've been listening, and doing something about it. If you can't do the same thing for our side, you're no better than a troll.
P.S. Is that quote in Ceirn's sig a joke? I always thought you were on our side, and quite frankly, it's one of the most hilarious jokes ever. I was thinking of quoting it to my friends as "lawl balance issues. This quote is so funny! Noobs don't even bother to try to find all the answers, and they wonder why they lose..." If that isn't a joke...you need to...uh...yeah. That'd put everything into perspective, for everyone else here...
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Oh! I get your joke! You think the moderators are the trolls!
They're allowed to state their opinion, just as you are. But first and foremost, they've got a job to do. Keeping clutter off our boards.
Right now, don't cry tears because it's YOUR clutter. If I were cluttering up the boards with a bunch of threads that we already had, I'd have gotten the message already myself, and just posted in the other ones that existed, where my posts belonged, instead of posting them EVERYWHERE hoping more posts = higher chance of it happening.
NEWS FLASH. It won't. More evidence = higher chance of it happening.
Tidus_Crescent
[09] Warrior
Serge > This Thread
mikosu
Goderator of pink hearts
Back in your cage Canadian
ValentineKnight
[08] Mercenary
I'm glad the mods are cracking down on ban threads it gets tiring seeing "Hilde/Algol/Xiangua/Kilk/Yoda ban threads every two weeks and I do listen to the other side but most of it just seems like paranoia/bitching/whining to me due to a lack of evidence to support they're claims that said character is destroying the community.(I play Hilde but do not use the doom combo and I bind)