Astaroth Anti...

Combatting Speed?

Mwab said:
Very helpful indeed Nelson, a compilation of stuff to (try to, at least) use when you find yourself in a picky situation. Just last night I found the joys of the :2::K:, this is especially since since it's a low attack and should catch people off guard when they're used to the mid attacks.
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Don't forget to bullrush them from full crouch after your 2K hits - it usually catches them off guard because the natural reaction after getting hit by a 2K is to crouch low or to try to hit back.
 
Who do you have the hardest time against?

i would also like to add raph to the list... i played a decent one today and didn't do terrible but definitely no where near as well as i hoped. a part of it was down to inexperience of course as i pretty much ate every low though hes a problem beside that because the sheer speed of his pokes and the sorta weird gaps between each... plus the fact that everything he seems to do feels like it tech crouches so it screwed up a lot of my throw game. gonna try some shit later and see if he can be low grabbed out of some shit :p

plus the fact that he has insane speed AND range... he can easily punish with each whiffed move from miles out so you have to be really careful about throwing out random shit. i sorta started negating this by stepping a lot but then my follow up of 22_88b decides to whiff a lot :/
 
Vs. Amy

It is very important that you learn to shake. A lot of Amy's power besides her speed and SC damage (not sure how much it has changed) deals with shakable combos. I do not know the notation of these combos because i am not an amy player but i have played against amy so much i know what the combos look like now. Especially after Crooked Jester tourney we had like 3000 amy players. Just watching the matches opened my eyes to a lot of new things. As an asty player i try my hardest to keep her away from me but eventually she will get inside.

Once she is inside i try to counter her with 6AB, 6k, 4B, 2k and get the fck out of there as fast as possible, she can not be in my face or she will obliterate me. If she does 3AB i do 3A+G_B+G after A and i jump over the A everytime and get a grab attempt. I know its easier said then done but the jumping unblockable attack her with something it doesnt matter what. This is also steppable which most people neglect to understand. The problem is her options out of it because her kick out of it is not steppable thats why i just usually attack when i see her jump or try to throw her if i am close enough to shut that jumping game down before it starts. They stand there and take it or duck because it looks like a high but hits mid and its fast as hell.

You have to take momentum of the match and do your best to not allow your opponent to get the upper hand. Once you hit the ground you have to watch how you tech some of her shit can tech catch you and do damage that you shouldnt be taking, but of course dont just stay on the ground and let her abuse you. From what heard thankfully they nerfed her soul damage cause i use to almost be broken or if not broken first match. Even attempting to GI i had to block so much i would just get CF.

Try your hardest to guess what the amy player is going to do next and adapt to his or her's play style as fast as you can. Each amy player plays a certain way and sticks to that way because they trust their play style. If you can figure out the amy you know what to do. This is why tourneys play a set. Imagine going in played one match and not knowing wtf just happened and getting eliminated would be unfair. 3 matchs if you lose the first you know what your up against adapt and concentrate and win.

Last but not least, NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER give up. I have seen people put down their controllers when they get low on health, or when they amy is so agressive that they lose incredibly fast. Your not gonna get better at beating amy by giving up. Your going to get better by losing if your skill level is lower then that opponent and seeing things from the amy player that you never saw before. THIS GOES for anyone you fight even if its fcking rock...never give up.

TRUTH OUT ASTY 4 LYFE! CROOKED JESTER 4 LYFE!

I AM SORRY FOR THE WALL OF TEXT AND OUR ASTY COMMUNITY SHOULD BREAK DOWN CHARS ONE AT A TIME SO THE COMMUNITY HAS A BETTER IDEA ON HOW TO FIGHT EACH CHAR INDIVIDUALLY. NOT ALL PLAYERS HAVE SEEN AN IVY PLAYER OR AMY PLAYER, SO TO AT LEAST HAVE A GENERAL KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT TO EXPECT WOULD BE NICE.
 
Vs. Amy

there already is a section for anti-character strats:

http://www.8wayrun.com/f24/astaroth-anti-t640/

check through that for tips on defeating different characters and playstyles, and feel free to ask questions in there, we are pretty good about getting them answered.

i think a new thread for each character is a bit over the top.
 
Following up from the Amy vs thread made a while ago.

There is an Amy vs Amy section in the Amy Vs thread in the Amy forum. Not sure how much help it can be, but it has a few general things and a punishment list that I think almost every character can take at least a few things from.

Amy Vs thread
 
Vs. Amy aka Stupid Slutty underage ***** (Lol)
Truth_Nelson said:
It is very important that you learn to shake. A lot of Amy's power besides her speed and SC damage (not sure how much it has changed) deals with shakable combos. I do not know the notation of these combos because i am not an amy player but i have played against amy so much i know what the combos look like now. Especially after Crooked Jester tourney we had like 3000 amy players. Just watching the matches opened my eyes to a lot of new things. As an asty player i try my hardest to keep her away from me but eventually she will get inside.

Once she is inside i try to counter her with 6AB, 6k, 4B, 2k and get the fck out of there as fast as possible, she can not be in my face or she will obliterate me. If she does 3AB i do 3A+G_B+G after A and i jump over the A everytime and get a grab attempt. I know its easier said then done but the jumping unblockable attack her with something it doesnt matter what. This is also steppable which most people neglect to understand. The problem is her options out of it because her kick out of it is not steppable thats why i just usually attack when i see her jump or try to throw her if i am close enough to shut that jumping game down before it starts. They stand there and take it or duck because it looks like a high but hits mid and its fast as hell.

You have to take momentum of the match and do your best to not allow your opponent to get the upper hand. Once you hit the ground you have to watch how you tech some of her shit can tech catch you and do damage that you shouldnt be taking, but of course dont just stay on the ground and let her abuse you. From what heard thankfully they nerfed her soul damage cause i use to almost be broken or if not broken first match. Even attempting to GI i had to block so much i would just get CF.

Try your hardest to guess what the amy player is going to do next and adapt to his or her's play style as fast as you can. Each amy player plays a certain way and sticks to that way because they trust their play style. If you can figure out the amy you know what to do. This is why tourneys play a set. Imagine going in played one match and not knowing wtf just happened and getting eliminated would be unfair. 3 matchs if you lose the first you know what your up against adapt and concentrate and win.

Last but not least, NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER give up. I have seen people put down their controllers when they get low on health, or when they amy is so agressive that they lose incredibly fast. Your not gonna get better at beating amy by giving up. Your going to get better by losing if your skill level is lower then that opponent and seeing things from the amy player that you never saw before. THIS GOES for anyone you fight even if its fcking rock...never give up.

TRUTH OUT ASTY 4 LYFE! CROOKED JESTER 4 LYFE!

I AM SORRY FOR THE WALL OF TEXT AND OUR ASTY COMMUNITY SHOULD BREAK DOWN CHARS ONE AT A TIME SO THE COMMUNITY HAS A BETTER IDEA ON HOW TO FIGHT EACH CHAR INDIVIDUALLY. NOT ALL PLAYERS HAVE SEEN AN IVY PLAYER OR AMY PLAYER, SO TO AT LEAST HAVE A GENERAL KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT TO EXPECT WOULD BE NICE.
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Truth Nelson thanks for the reply in my vs. Amy thread & sorry about posting another thread up on the Asty forums when there was one for me right here.

And I totally agree with you on how we should start breaking characters down one by one so we can start to develop Asty's metagame more. And IMO I think we should start with Amy.

It just seems that she was made just to piss off & frustrate Astaroth players. Her 3BA was probably and still is an issue for alot of people. I'm able to block the WHOLE thing on reaction. But that poses a problem. Now I see all these 3B's but no A for some characters this doesn't pose much of a problem but for Asty it's hell. I would sit there in think hey it's punishment time but before I can do anything I get countered and put back on the defensive once again.

It's pretty obvious that in order to beat Amy we have to keep her on the ropes & pressure her for a change. Currently right now I decided since I have 2 friends of mine that main her that I'm gonna test her out & see where we as Asty players have opportunities to attack her. I understand that each player is different but if we can get a firm grasp on what she does we can at least make this match up a little bit easier for ourselves.

So I'll make sure to post anything that I find & if someone has some info make sure to hook us up.
 
The fact is we have this thread but everything is all over the place, we have some possession here, some ivy lick there, some amy here, some amy there, some yoshi there , some yoshi here. The fact that I am making this thread is unorganized thus making it hard for people trying to find strats on a specific character that they are struggling to contend to. Lobo i understand what you mean but it would be so much easier if we did seperate threads. Yes it would be redundant, BUT would be way more organized for viewers to easily access the information instead of having to search thru a whole thread for information in regards to a character they are having issues dealing with. I am sure players would contribute to the cause , because as an asty community we are here to help each other out.
 
I second that I think it would be a great idea to separate the character discussion. We could always make this thread a directory for all the matchup threads that way it would be easier to get to.
 
i don't object to using the other thread. it just becomes a problem when we have 15 asty vs... threads and suddenly no one can easily see what other threads are available, which are far more helpful imo. honestly, i think there is only so much anti character discussion that is pertinent. that said it mostly boils down to a few questions and quick answers and then a dead thread. how's this; fell free to make character specific threads with your questions and discussions, but don't be mad if after they are dead for a while i merge them into here to keep the SA clean and easy.

really how much anti amy astaroth specific info is there?

here's another option:

http://www.8wayrun.com/f23/anti-amy-lol-t931/

how bout asking the amy players? no sweeter source of release or information than your enemies mouth.

@ raider...we're all mature here. you can type 'stupid slutty underage angel' and no one will get mad.

oh and as for 3ba... i'm pretty sure you can just block the b and 8 or 9b over the a.
 
I got beaten once when a taki player sidestepped my bullrush in PO. He literally had enough time to pull out the unblockable before I could do anything. Unless your SG is red, it's best to carefully defend, and counterattack if they hover. You do NOT want risk getting smacked with a counterhit PO K. At a slight distance, 6B works surprisingly well (At least for me).
 
6B+K= The Destruction of any taki player. Taki's 1BA and AB options are rendered useless. Take advantage of this. I tested this out with another Asty player. It works wonders and 6B+K makes Taki's work double and its already hard to win with taki as it is.
 
Truth_Nelson said:
6B+K= The Destruction of any taki player. Taki's 1BA and AB options are rendered useless. Take advantage of this. I tested this out with another Asty player. It works wonders and 6B+K makes Taki's work double and its already hard to win with taki as it is.
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6B+K is indeed the Possession killer. Use it carefully though: it does not kill EVERY option. She can still do the PO K and more importantly the PO A+B (the unblockable) which is a tech crouch!

So here comes another technique you should mix with the 6B+K. Using it properly will drive any taki player CRAZY: if you notice taki is starting to use the A+B to counter your 6B+K, -----> 28 B+G air throw. As a result, Asty will jump OVER taki (who is crouched, should I repeat). Then u can CH BT B+K (or simply throw) at will.. and then u know what happens next ;) Not to mention the best part: if taki decided to jump, it's a free COUNTER HIT air throw.

Used properly, that mixed technique (6B+K/28B+G) is SO DAMAGING for taki that she could end up not using PO mixups anymore.
 
stance dancing siegfried anyone? having to watch and a guess mixups all day once he gets close is annoying, what do you guys do?

stance dance is the only type of sieg that bothers me, mind games and shit, canceling crap into the stance with the double low/mid stun and just chipping away at me... i can't exactly watch and react because i just feel too slow and its just guess, guess etc. it really kills the flow which hurts my game.

he has seriously deceptive speed as well and he can get in on asta so easily because his moves are genereally faster than astas keep away moves and he has the range to deal with my quicker keepaway moves.

sieg 3b > asta 4a. (yes i know it tech crouches)

i don't like baiting for whiffs because its just asking for him to rush in and i have minimal range advantange outside of a+b so that hurts my keepaway.

so how do you guys tackle this?
 
Learn to block 3B through anticipation, and learn how to counter his options from that stance. Try to play defensively at first, since your average non-spammer Siegfried will likely have certain transitions and stances that they like, and thus tend to stick to certain moves. The biggest thing to learn about his stances is the mixup options he has, if any. If they tend to dick around by switching stances a lot, use 6K, 4A, or the Bullrush depending on the situation.
 
6AB punishes 90 percent of sieg's stances, if he is in your face your in range. so i use it alot because as soon as he attempts another stance its CH and free damage. When hes dancing far away i use A+B or even 22_88A+B if you catch them whiffing stances its free unblockable and it throws them either out of the ring or into the next century. WR mixups i crouch grab or 28B+G over him and then get BT into crouch grab on CH it works ive done it a few times but its high risk high reward , except WRB that shit is annoying havent found anything for that accept blocking it or impacting it. 3B isnt too much of a threat for me now i just adapt to the players use of it and i am fine. On wake up i usually do 3[k] A but it doesnt usually work against sieg cause of how fast his WR is so i usually dont delay it. 2 crouch grab is good for those siegs that like to get up and just guard but from what i have played most go into some sort of WR mixup. I will get back to you if i think of anything else.
 
That's how the matchup Asta-Sophie should be handled:
GG Saitoh for ranking high in that tourney. I wish there were more videos of your Asta, I'd like to see how your style varies depending on the opponent.
 
Vs. Amy

usually against amy I block one of her strings then hit her with 4B and either use 2A+G_B+G or 2B+K, A+G depending on how fast they like to get up.
 
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