Bonus Characters (*)

tribaL said:
as i said before: since when did "imagery" become a reason for banning?
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I'm not saying ban them cuz of the way they look. I'm saying if we allow such to happen then it affects the image of the competitive scene or at least the way I look at the competitive scene.

They just don't represent Soul Calibur unlike the originals. SC4's bonus characters are just extras meant to be put on the side for casuals least the way I see it.
 
Okay, I don't have SC4, and I'm by no means a good player, but let me share my opinion.

Why are CAS characters banned? (discounting inconvienience to have everyone's CAS on 1 console)

The way I see it, Namco happened to bundle 5 CAS 'samples' that happens to look like anime people. I mean, their differences with the original cast is the same as a CAS character, isn't it? Different size, different range.

It's not like say, Hwang vs Xianghua in sc1 or something. It's just a small unbalanced thing Namco put in (after all, not only the hardcore buys SC4) to please its customers. Can anyone seriously tell me if Shura being definitely better than Cervantes is balanced?

Definitely I'm not suggesting shes broken (since then Cervy wouldn't be too far himself), I'm just suggesting that Namco balanced the game by playtesting with the original cast, and that the 5 bonus characters are simply licensed sample CAS characters.

Why allow then?

Sorry if I sound ignorant or noob, and since I'm not a tourney player I guess you can ignore my views if you think they're trash.
 
Demon- you are completely off base. 1. I have won and placed well in MANY tournaments with Christie, I'm not here to brag or care about that shit, check your sources if you really care. It wasn't the point and this isn't a thread to start dropping your tekken e-peen, k? I know, I know, if YOU don't know who I am in Tekken, I must not be shit. Always a good time after you actually play me in Tekken, I'm a Christie player, and Eddy is NOT slower nor does he DO more dmg 9_9

But thanks for the condescending post, I have never seen your name on zaibatsu or in tourneys either guy. But calling my examples ridiculous and then saying that "range is everything" followed by "Eddy's long range didn't matter in tiers". Eddy/Christie were both good enough to compete against any match up in the game and sure Eddy won more tourneys, because Spero and Slips went to a LOT of places and did well with him, that is all about the player and their choices. Spero and Slips can play Christie just as well as Eddy, ask them and they'll agree. While Eddy's range makes a difference, in the end its all about how you play, your defense and your set ups, the character behind them doesn't make that large of a difference, especially in the case of Eddy>Christie. Just theory fighter.

I don't play Tekken as much as I used to, because Buffalo's arcade scene died 2 yrs ago. Doesn't mean I didn't use to be good, or that I don't know what I am talking about with the comparisons.

Keeping this thread on track-

I think it is reasonable to suggest unbanning the bonus characters and seeing what happens. My bet is nothing happens, and if a bonus character does win early, it will be an isolated aberration. Point being, let us as a community MOVE FORWARD and TRY something, without ASSUMING the worst will happen immediately.

what harm could it do?

Test run that shit, and observe what happens. Be scientific about shit.

cha cha
 
cha cha- I have been to enough tournaments and placed well in just about every tournament I`ve been to. Yes I`ve heard of you and the buffalo scene and played a few of them, you guys are solid as hell and I`m not trying to say who is better but I`m stating facts, I`ve heard of alot more eddy players either placing or winning more than I have christie and YES eddy does do more damage and is slower, no offense cha cha but get YOUR facts straight. each character can do combos the cant....but to get back to the game I just rather the bonus characters stay where they are.
 
I say let bonus characters in until they prove to be a detriment to the game and the tourney scene. Period.

I don't like them, think they are stupid and unneeded. But that doesn't give me a right to ban them for those who DO like them. I will play the player the same, no matter which one they pick.

cha cha
 
Actually...Eddy isnt slower than Christie. If it was true...They both would have different frame data. Eddy does more damage due to his longer range/bigger hit box allowing an extra hit or 2 in juggles. He also has better throw range.

But yoooo. Unban bonus characters so CUSTOM CHARACTERS get unbanned too!
 
Anyone who is talking about the image of the competitive scene makes me wonder if they are keeping up with how people view us. I hope you realize that this banning stuff is making the Soul Calibur community look bad. It wouldn't be so bad if characters were banned after a lot of testing and tournament results showed that they needed to be, but so far it has been nothing but knee jerk reactions based off of reasons that have nothing to do with balance.

As for The elf and Amy, there is no way in hell Amy is going to shoot to "S" tier just because she has abit more range. She's a good character but it takes more than that to be all the way at the top.
 
Ceirnian said:
Anyone who is talking about the image of the competitive scene makes me wonder if they are keeping up with how people view us. I hope you realize that this banning stuff is making the Soul Calibur community look bad. It wouldn't be so bad if characters were banned after a lot of testing and tournament results showed that they needed to be, but so far it has been nothing but knee jerk reactions based off of reasons that have nothing to do with balance.

As for The elf and Amy, there is no way in hell Amy is going to shoot to "S" tier just because she has abit more range. She's a good character but it takes more than that to be all the way at the top.
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Obviously it takes A doom combo with massive ring out range.
 
Jaxel said:
If we were unban Bonus characters, then by definition, we MUST unban custom characters.
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What? No? The difference between customs and bonus characters are that bonus characters are standard between all consoles. Do you really think a meaningful amount of people are going to push for a ban because they cant have their character with more range? Its not like you have ban bonus chars to try to be fair to make up for the fact that Namco didn't put an alternative to every character in the game default. These characters are part of the game.
Ceirnian said:
Anyone who is talking about the image of the competitive scene makes me wonder if they are keeping up with how people view us.
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Seriously.
 
I'm curious now. exactly how much more range do Shura and Schez have? 10%? 20%? cause I've never seen it to really be all that much. And Hit box size matters a shit-ton in this game. Stop dissing the "Pro's are all that matter cause the Con being hit box is not worth discussing". How often have you said "wtf how did that miss?" during a match? Hit box issues, they matter.

As for CaS being unbanned because Bonus is unbanned is a load of crock. CaS is the ability to set what hitbox size you have, as well as abusing costumes to hide moves. Want an example of this - try spotting Hilde's [6]K slide when she's wearing a full length dress. So combining Hit Box, which your opponent doesn't know how large yours is until they're fighting you, with hiding moves with costumes, and you can probably see the large difference between the two.

That being said, I don't condone a ban on either. Just making a point.
 
This thread is about the bonus characters. There's no need to be bringing up the created characters.

The reason created characters shouldn't be allowed is because they are console exclusive. And because of that there is no point in arguing for them to be unbanned.
 
The bonus characters do fit into the Soul Calibur IV's storyline,not well but they still do.
Each one has a reason why they're in Soul Calibur IV,all were made to fit into SCIV.
So how can you say they "don't fit"? Meh, I just don't get how banning characters because they don't fit
is a good enough reason :|
 
Look, in tournaments, all that should matter is skill, technicals and a little bit of luck. Story does not matter.

Can everyone agree on this?

THEREFORE

If the reason for banning the bonus characters is about skill or technicalities (the quantifiable factors) then yes, they really should be banned.

But if you're saying that they're banned from tournaments because they're "bonus characters" or "don't fit in with the SC universe" then that in itself is an irony if we accept the definition of tournament and high level play.

Can we actually get the person who banned the bonus characters in this thread? I'd really like to hear/see the reasoning.
 
The fact is they are different from their counterparts, I`m going to test a few things out with the elf and shura to see if their range is going to be a big factor or not (gonna try some combos and punishment), I`ll let ya guys know if I find anything
 
Nobody in this community is a leader. No one person is responsible for the bannings, there in lies the problem. Jaxel and DFG make their rule sets going off what they want, since they run large tournies, a lot of people just accept it (I helped foster this when I started trying to get nationals rules intiatives going)... I'd like to see them man up now though, and unban some stuff and just see how it goes for now, and if it goes south, we fix it then, when the reasoning is clear and evident... Not just assumed and born of paranoia/blind hatred.

I used to be on the 'ban'wagon believing that the bans were for the good of the community, but I since then have educated myself, gathered informed opinions and--- changed my opinion *GASP* and we all know THAT isn't allowed around here!!!!

So let's all do our part and right this ship for the better.

cha cha
 
AkazukinChaCha said:
I say let bonus characters in until they prove to be a detriment to the game and the tourney scene. Period.

I don't like them, think they are stupid and unneeded. But that doesn't give me a right to ban them for those who DO like them. I will play the player the same, no matter which one they pick.

cha cha
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^
exactly what i've been saying. i took the liberty of bolding the important point.
 
DemonTripp said:
The fact is they are different from their counterparts, I`m going to test a few things out with the elf and shura to see if their range is going to be a big factor or not (gonna try some combos and punishment), I`ll let ya guys know if I find anything
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If all of a sudden Shura's range allowed for an infinite (or otherwise "broken") combo then we can get into a technical discussion of banning her.

Let's get some numbers/figures/facts in this thread really.
 
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