Bonus Characters (*)

No. The question is why use them, if for no other reason be different.

This is nonsense....not Ban/Unban....but the fact that someone would use them as opposed to the reg. cast counterpart.
 
Never really understood why they banned the bonus characters,nobody will probably use em' anyway :P
and it's pretty much already decided for. But I guess this thread is just for the sake of argument,well
unless this is for the weekly online tournament then sure make a poll,lol.
 
Dullyanna said:
Really, why would Shura be worth a ban, if she doesn't actually break the game?
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Assless chaps. They're really not fashionable. That's how I justify it anyway...


I don't see why anyone would care that any of them are banned though. They're all just slightly different and stupider looking versions of existing characters anyway.
 
IvyFanboy said:
Today I played a custom Astaroth. This individual chose to give his character a very large cloak and leggings that covered most of his limbs. I actually found it hard to figure out what the hell he was doing since his limbs were floating in very open cloth and I could never see the actual limbs move since his back was facing me. It was very weird. My point here is that the different look could throw people off the animations since they are designed differently.
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We'd better ban capes and skirts, then.
 
I'm all for the bonus character and CaS being allowed for the online tourneys...because they are the online tourneys. It'll help reinforce a casual atmosphere. Also, its the only venue where it is convenient for any player to use their own CaS.

Offline though, its easier to just use the canon characters without adding pointless detail for players to learn like slightly different ranges and hit boxes.
 
Countee said:
Offline though, its easier to just use the canon characters without adding pointless detail for players to learn like slightly different ranges and hit boxes.
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I'm against banning just to make things easier. Just like the Algol and Yoda ban: "they're not overpowered but just to make things easier for us, lets ban them so that we won't have to take the extra time to learn to fight them." Right?

We shouldn't place bans in order to minimize the effort required at getting better at the game. We should only ban if the thing in question is unbalanced to the point of there not being any point in competing against it and having it greatly affecting the results of high level tournament play. None of which the bonus characters do.

I have not yet seen anything close to a convincing argument on why the bonus characters deserve to be banned.

Banning should only be used as a last resort, people on these forums take it too lightly.
 
OOFMATIC said:
We shouldn't place bans in order to minimize the effort required at getting better at the game.
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This logic is used when you can prove certain characters/moves aren't invincible. We're talking about duplicates of standard characters. How does anyone get better at the game by learning how to fight the same character? HEAD ASPLODES.
 
You get better because you get to beat up on a bunch of annoying anime girls. How would that not make you concentrate more?

Also while I agree with Oof, this thread is going to (or has) turned into garbage so I'll just call all these banners scrubs and move on.

Damn scrubs.
 
Vince, that quote was more true about Algol and Yoda than the bonus characters.

But even still, with the bonus characters legal and many more people using them then who knows what people will discover about their differences compared to their standard character counterpart.

Organous said:
If bonus characters are allowed, suddenly there's literally no reason to choose Amy or Cervantes other than possible mental factors. It's that they are strictly better than the regular, canon characters, so only one version can be allowed.
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This is not a good reason to ban them at all. So what if no one will choose Amy or Cervy in high level play? Since when was the cosmetic factor a reason to ban something in tournament play? Just because you don't want to see Shura's and Scheherazades instead of Amy's or Cervy's it warrants a ban? Even if this were the real reason for the ban, then why are Ashlotte and the others banned as well, they are said to be worse than their counterparts.

To me this ban is a joke. It's the most pointless ban with no real reason behind it. Bans should only be used as a last resort, to fix severe imbalances to the game. There is no reason for these 5 characters to be banned at all, and if there were, they would have to be looked at one character at a time, not as a group.
 
broken gameplay and infinites are about the only real ban worthy cases.

banning things other than for these reasons is pre-judging aka prejudice.
 
Here are the opposing arguments:

1. The characters are supposed to be the same. No point in learning them twice.
2. The characters may possibly have significant differences. Let's consider learning them.


Here is a conversation between each believer (Based on a true story)

1: "Why bother with something that should be exactly the same?"
2: "It may not be. It could change the game entirely."

1: "The odds are slim."
2: "Maybe, but not impossible."

1: "How about you find something first, then we'll talk."
2: "You should help me do it."

1: "...Anyway, I'm going to get laid."
2: *Says nothing*


Fin.
 
I would use Ash if she was not banned as a secondary. Heck I'd use Algol as a secondary too if he wasn't banned. I don't like the other characters, therefore I only pick Tira 95% of the time. Stupid Ban Calibur 4.
 
keep yoda banned, despite the fact that he is indisputably the worst character in the game, for the following reasons.

there is a much smaller move list available for fighting him. this leads to matches being very homogeneous, and homogeneous matches are uninteresting for spectators. if we are trying to garner interest in tournaments and competitive play then we need to do what we can to keep matches interesting.

yoda is not only a terribly weak character, yoda is a terribly designed character as well. in the event that there is ever a sc5 i do not want to see another character that has yodaesque immunities in it. the best way to avoid seeing a yoda mark 2, is to show in no uncertain terms how much we hated his guts the first time around.

banning yoda is doing new players a favor. since yoda is not merely bad but actually orders of magnitude worse than any other character, if yoda is banned then new players wont pick him in tournaments and thus they will not get absolutely destroyed because he can never win anything.

banning yoda is doing a favor for other players too. playing against yoda is boring. really boring. if he is banned then maybe i wont see him as often.

in conclusion, yoda is a negative influence on the game. if the mythical patch 1.04 deleted the little green goblin from the game would you mourn his loss?

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the special characters are not fine. their inclusion does not add anything to the game but cosmetics, and in some cases an argument could be made that they are just better than their counterpart (ashlotte's much smaller hit box comes to mind). i would argue that their inclusion does not add to the game outside a measure of aesthetics and i can see no reason to risk adding some imbalance merely to accommodate aesthetics.

in retrospect that last paragraph should have been first, but i really hate yoda.
 
don't ban anyone. i could care less if any of the characters have any advantages or disadvantages over anyone else because the point is you still have to win. if shura's attacks have just a little bit more reach than cervy's, is there ever going to be a time where i, or anyone, will say "omg, i lost because, somehow, even though i knew her reach was a little better, i lost and it was only because of that reach. she should be banned"? no. if you lose simply because of that bit of reach, then maybe you should have been paying more attention and compensated for it.

banning yoda because he's boring, or bottom tier, isn't a good reason. he's bottom tier? so is, arguably, talim and rock; are we going to ban them too because they suck? should we ban amy? amy matches are boring because everyone essentially play her same way... so she should be banned.

then there's the argument that "some characters don't belong in the game, so they should be banned." what the hell is that? they're in the damned game, how to they not belong there? just because they don't follow some sort of completely fabricated timeline, that was only implemented to give the other fabricated characters a reason to fight anyways? when was the last time an ivy fought a cervy and you thought to yourself "oh man! it's father versus daughter... this is going to be great!" the answer is most probably never (and if you have, i feel really sorry for you).

then you had the thread over in the hilde forums that was insisting that her ro combos be banned. i've seen too many people deal with hilde and her charges no problem, where her ro combo isn't even a factor, for me to think that it deserves a ban. plus, if you ban that, what's next? fotd into asura ro's being banned? yoshi's 3b, 44bb, 44bb, a:b+k? at what range does a ro juggle become eligible for a ban?

then there's algol. he shoots bubbles. are they a pain in the ass? yea. does he do a lot of damage off of basic juggle starters? yea. does he have a massive juggle that's pretty damn hard to setup that people don't like to see happen to them that does a lot of dmg? you bet your ass. does that mean he should be banned? personally, i don't think so. i don't even use algol and the only thing i see with him is a reason for me to get better. that's just me though. i'd rather be challenged and get better rather than scream "ban" because i don't like it.

what i essentially see with this whole "ban ban ban-dwagon," are people who don't want to have to deal with something that they don't feel should be in the game. well, what you feel is your own opinion, but the game exists. i'm one of those crazy people who thinks "if it's the in the game, it can, and should, be exploited."

what's wrong with being forced to get better at the game? isn't that the whole point of playing against competition in the first place? just because something is difficult to get by doesn't mean it's impossible, it just means you have to try a little harder. heaven forbid you have to do that. last time i checked, playing guitar wasn't that easy, but i'm not about to go online and tell people to not to play guitar better than me because it hurts my feelings.
 
How do all these bans happen, in the face of logic? Who is actually deciding these bans because they are really all bull, tourney organizers need to step up and not ban everything under the sun.
 
Countee said:
I'm all for the bonus character and CaS being allowed for the online tourneys...because they are the online tourneys. It'll help reinforce a casual atmosphere. Also, its the only venue where it is convenient for any player to use their own CaS.

Offline though, its easier to just use the canon characters without adding pointless detail for players to learn like slightly different ranges and hit boxes.
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Even if the bonus characters do have different ranges/hit boxes, they are constant across all systems, and you can easily train/practice against them. Its not like some random CaS that someone made that has weird ranges/hit boxes that you've never encountered before. They also aren't a ridiculous amount of effort to unlock, like it was unlocking all of the CaS stuff (there needed to be a convenient "buy all" button once you get enough gold).
 
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