Chai Xianghua matchups

tiggerkiddo

tiggerkiddo

[09] Warrior
...couldn't think of a decent title...

Anyways, this will serve as a place to discuss character matchups, what you need to watch out for, what you can punish and all that jazz. I've chosen to start off with Voldo for now and will probably do the staff user who shall not be named next.

Voldo

Some of his pokes:

2K: For whatever reason on block, I can't hit him with a thing. I assume he's safe after that so don't bother trying to punish it. This hits low.

3K: Can be punished on block with AA but if you're close enough. Otherwise you'll be out of range and open for a free GI or parry.

236B: I list it here because some may use it as a poke, though it has negative frames on hit and if you block this low, they will eat FC 3B. They also can use this if you bother rolling to the right after being knocked down. Oh yea and this comes out of CR stance.

Other stuff to watch out for:

CF game: Ugh, he just rapes the Soul gauge. Many of his useful moves (2A+B, 3BB, CR A+B included) will reduce your guage to nothing

6:6B: Used primarily as a punisher (Just frame version that is). If you don't block it or you get punished with it, you're looking at potentially 67 points of damage. If you block it, you can hit him with AA.

2A+B 236: Used primarily by players on wakeup, which allows them to transition to CR stance. Anything after CR from 2A+B can't be interrupted. Need to check that last bit out. Okay you can't interrupt him, lol. Dirty old gimp.

3BB: Has two hits and while the second one can be GI'ed, smart Voldo players will forgo the second hit and mix you up. I'm curious if 4 A+B can eat the second hit...really doubt it. Oh and if you try to GI the second hit which may not come out, you're screwed.

A+B: His fastest TC move. He's also safe after it so be careful.

2A+B 236A+B: Usually used as a punisher, does mad damage to the soul gauge. You can block it, GI it, duck it or 8 way run it. I suggest the last 3 because he's safe on block and rapes the soul guage. If you duck it, you can get a back throw out of it.

BS A+B: Push back on this is stupid. Get hit and you risk being ringed out or wall splat. Because of the stupid pushback, I'd advise playing it safe.

1A: Yes it's his low and a slow low at that but beware about trying to attack after blocking it. If it's horizontal, a kick and high/mid (Not sure on mid), he ducks it and can hit you with WR B, which could leave to a 60 point combo. Block it and you can get a crouching throw out of it...though it also tends to whiff. This too rapes the soul gauge.

1K: Eat it and you'll be eating a 6:6B. He's also safe after it and attacking after it earns you a potential GI to the face. Tech crouches like mad.

66A+B, K: First hit is mid, second hit is high. Unless it's on counter hit, duck the second hit and make him pay.

Voldo in BS is too dirty. If he's in it, unless you want to deal with stupidity, attack him with a quick attack to get him back to regular stance (Only works if he's guarding). Watch out for A+B in BS because it can auto-GI highs and mids. Just going over it, he can really mix you up with moves such as 2BK (Try to attack the low and get pancaked for your troubles.). 2A is also another low which is safe. There is more out of this but I'm still researching.

I'm sure by now you noticed a lot of his moves on block do too much damage to the soul gauge. GI is also an option but beware of it as well. V players will use [B+K] on you post GI, the startup can throw your efforts to re GI out of whack and cause you to eat 70 points of damage.

Sophitia

So far, Sophie is excellent at punishing, really good at it. Several of her punishers also happen to be excellent at tech crouching so mindlessly throwing out mids or high would get you killed. I advise you just block them, yes she does stupid damage to the soul gauge in general but with the patch, it's not as easy. You can punish deathfist with 3B and 236236AA with either a low throw or WS K. 236 AA is slow and you should GI the low no problem.

Most of her lows are unsafe, punish them. (Will add more later)

Sophie does not have great mixups. Many of her strings have a low in them which you can block and punish.

Her best range seems to be mid (Theory fighter ftw) and would like to keep you out so she can make you pay for whiffing (4B+K has some annoying pushback). WS K also pushes you back and whiffing against Sophie is just bad news. Since she has no great mixups, you're best bet is to just get in there and do work, as they say. Get in her face but be a bit more cautious than usual since she can make you pay for screwing up.

This is kind of a placeholder as I just started to try to figure him out so it'll be expanded. If anyone has any thoughts, or corrections, please share.
 
I purposed this topic to kid when he started as co-mod of this section. First thing is first, no more other anti threads, just use this one, if you make a anti-thread it will be locked! The anti-amy thread is going to be locked and I will post some the info here. If you want it in here post it.


AMY

4A - (sidesteps with a mid swipe)

i17 and below, good place for 214B depending on range.

1A - (looks similar to X's 3A)

Free FC3B, WSA to SXS, 6B, 6K, WSK

6BBB - (3 straight pokes)

Auto Gi on third B with 4A+B, also punishable by 4K with 3B ender.

3B - (the beginning of her mid to low that everyone abuses)

-15 on block, BB punishable but 2B is a good option. Will jump the A if they decide to use it. Safe on block and +2 on hit.

1B - (standing foot poke)

punish with 4k, 6K, 6B or WSK

FC3B - (Crouching mid)

Must punish with 6B due to push back, carefull at tip range 6B will wiff.

FC1B - (low poke)

Punish with WSK, 6B, or 6K. Long poke so range can be an issue here.

8B - (jumping slash)

use 6B due to range, 6K will work if close.

4KK - (2 roundhouse kicks high/mid)

Use 6B due to range/pushback issues, 6K will work if close.

WSK - (rising leg vertical kick)

AA punishable. Has pushback but still seems to hit all the time. 6B will hit but AA is more damaging.

8A+B - (twisting jump slash)

Force crouch, use 6K or 6B.

2B+K - (Kneeling toe stab, you see this a lot online)

WSK as there is a small TC after move, but that also means free low grab!

4B+KB - (fast multi stab, commonly seen online)

-16 on block, but you can step the last B and iFC3B. ***You must step towards her none sword hand.***

FCA+B - (2 swiping mids performed in crouch)

3B due to TC, free low grab if close.

44B - (like X's 44B)

6B if close, range is dangerous here.

4K - (standing kick to face)

AA

66B+K - (jumping forward poke)
-20 but major pushback, also has an option for Amy's spinning TC similar to X's A+K. 66B+K will kill all these options.

236A - (TC spin to jumping 2 hit spin)

-21 but TC's use 3B or 66B+K.

236BB - (TC spin to twirling sword attack with poke on the end)

Can auto last B with 4A+B or AA, 6B, 4K for punish

236KK - (TC spin to jumping 2 spin kicks. Most do this on a grounded opponant.)

Forces crouch, use 4K,6K, 6B, or WSK

BPA - (spinning auto GI to X looking 44B)

If your quick enough dash grab will give free side grab. Can be ducked, probably better off doing BB or 4K.
 
This thread needed to be made, badly.

This weekend at NEC, i lost to several players and play styles, so i need some help in figuring it out.


Turtle Sophitia
The sophitia player that just blocks, punishes and interrupts SXS (felt like my move list dwindled to next to nothing). Only thing i could do is wait for the eventual 1k or other unsafe low to punish it, but i felt really lost in that matchup.


TigerKiddo - I need voldo help as well so i'll look through your posts. I wonder, with all of voldos crawling and land fishing are there any situations where you can get a guaranteed 1bb or crouch grab?
 
After blocking any LF attacks, you get a free crouch throw or FC 3B. If you block LF A or B, you're put into crouch status and can't do 1AA (I believe, still testing). CR...you better just get used to the 2A+B attack and GI it or risk dealing with CR mixups (Oh and did I mention he rapes the soul gauge with that?).

EDIT: Turtle Sophie...ugh. Sorry I'm just going through all her good moves and most of them are pretty safe. However some of her good moves can be stepped so if they seem eager to use her more steppable moves, just 8way run them and punish. If Sophie wants to just play it safe, it seems you gotta just wait for her to screw up.

I apologize if this seems vague but it Sophie is at an advantage when she turtles. If they are too fond of their punishers, space them out and punish with 22B. Though for that you have to limit it to attacks with good enough range and decent recovery or you're eating deathfist. Only works if they do 236B.

Another thing you have to be wary of is throwing out too many highs or mids. A turtle Sophie can just sit and wait and once you throw out a move like that, deathfist (Or 4B+K but deathfist hurts so much more). Blocked deathfist seems to net you 3B but I'm going to go back and check to see if that's correct...also with 236236AA (The low mid and the even lower low), you can punish it on block with WS K and a low throw.
 
I play with X extensively (well, not so much anymore; I've been focusing on improving my Sophie) and I've noticed that the two characters that give me the most problems are Kilik and Ivy. I'm thinking I may just be losing patience against them most of the time, but, beyond that, I can never get the gap closed long enough to do any real damage. I used to be able to mop the floor with Ivy, but, I don't know. So, any tips for those two characters?
 
For Kilik, be wary...very wary of throwing out any mid that isn't a kick (Oh and the early frames of Asura can avoid lows and throws). He's going to want to keep you out so you want to stay in his face...WS B (Or WR) is one of his moves he will use to keep you out. If you recognize when he'll use it, you can 44B it to make him pay...uh yea, this is my next character to analyze so I'll try to get a more detailed answer soon.

Ivy: Recognize her various stances and which ones SS/CS can be used out of...CS is done out of Sword stance and is an A break while SS is out of Whip stance and is a B break. Not very easy breaks mind you but you're eating a terrible amount of damage if you don't pay attention. Yea a general thing is to pay attention to her stances and to get inside. Your close range game is better than her and she'll want to keep you out since X's best range is in your face.

Basic advice but it's all I have until I can look into them further...^^;

EDIT: More Kilik!

Kilik

Staff boy's main goal is to keep you out. (We'll get to Asura later)

WS B: Massive pushback on block. It's also safe. I have been able to 44B it but really, you should just block it (Or step it, not easy though)

4B: A bit risky since it's slow on startup but on block, it pushes you back, out of X's range, again. I'd suggest 4G it so you get Kilik up close to you.

A+K: It tech crouches, it jumps and it crouches again! Totally safe and pushes you back some more.

BP (214): This stance serves as a great anti pressure. It auto GI's any verts (bye bye launchers) and allows him 3 options to attack after it if you try anything silly. BP B is the GB one and beware when blocking it because 3kB is guaranteed after it, which also pushes you away. BP A is an annoying low and BP K can knock you down.

MO: Another pressure killing stance (IMO). It auto GI's any horizontals (bye bye AA) and he has more options from this. MO A is just dirty. It's safe and getting hit with it nets Kilik a free 49 point combo. MO B is a low hit that also spaces him back and out of your range (again.). MO K doesn't do much but it's safe (again). MO A+G/B+G is a 13 frame throw (At it's fastest input, someone correct me) and you can be setup for RO.

Asura: It is what is it. You know about it so I won't spare the details BUT X can block the first hit of it and then hit him with 1B+K!

More later...
 
Something i found about Voldo's 3BB you can 66A+B after the first hit when you block it, a better option than guard impacting, well i think it's better.

And for Amy's 1KA and 66A ( if you ever encounter someone who uses the moves often ) you can 44B after you block it and it will kill most of her options
 
For Sophie's 236236AA you can just jump the second hit and do BT b+k

Or you can just low throw after you block the first hit as well.
 
You can BT B+K after jumping that? How? I'm jumping it but I'm not getting BT B+K at all.

BP: Interesting find but I'm finding with V, if I choose to do just one 3B (And forgo the second B), I can safely block or GI the incoming 66A+B. But yea, if they want to do two, 66A+B to make them pay.

With Amy's 1KA/66A, if you 44B me, I can interrupt with 236A/236BBBBBB/33B/66BB (Last one is kind of spotty, sometimes I interrupt, other times no).

Ninja: Yea, thanks for that tip. I was wondering if I could to that after playing a Sophie player who used it a bit
 
tiggerkiddo said:
BP: Interesting find but I'm finding with V, if I choose to do just one 3B (And forgo the second B), I can safely block or GI the incoming 66A+B. But yea, if they want to do two, 66A+B to make them pay.
Click to expand...

You can actually get a confirmation for the 2nd B for a few frames before inputting 66A+B...so there's no hope for them since if they decide not to do the second B you can do other things.

edit: Also for the jumping did you try to jump forward?
And about Amy's 1KA and 66A you can do 66A+B instead..but i like 44B ): just too sexy lol
 
Jumping forward on the whole thing nets me BT B+K, just not after blocking the first hit.

EDIT: 66A+B after 1KA can work but I can counter with 44B or a 236A. With 66A, I can still beat you with 236A.

MORE EDIT: 1B+K works after blocking 1KA, though I can sometimes beat it with 33B
 
...for some reason, 4A+B snuffs out anything I try do after 1KA except 6:6B/66BB/4BB. Do you have a way around those last ones? Either way, awesome info, thanks!

Probably just doing something wrong...

EDIT: More Kilik

I find 1B+K is useful for getting around some of his annoying close range stuff but 46B tracks well (At least from my testing so far) and eats it alive.

66A+B against his 4B/6B...if done at the right time, I can instantly get behind his back...
 
Sophie's lows: (frames are on block.)
1A (-17) - unsafe only if you know the second A isn't coming. Blocked 1AA (-24)? go crazy.
11A (-10) Safe. Hard to see and block anyway.
B2 (-14)- you never know if she'll continue the string. Once you're sure she's stopped she's safe by then.
2K (-14) - almost safe? be quick.
1K (-16) - punishable.
236AA (-16) - TJ the second A whether it comes or not for guarenteed damage. She just might drop the second A leaving her at (-18), good luck with reacting quick enough.
236236AA (-14) - TJ the second A whether it comes or not for guarenteed damage. She just might drop the second A leaving her at (-20), good luck with reacting quick enough.

Not ALL her lows are so easy to punish, a good Sophie player will vary whether he/she will completely follow through with her strings.
 
2K, I can get a crouch throw out of.

Out of all her lows, 11A is by far the scariest (So long as they don't go for the unblockable). I however stand corrected on the knowledge that all of her lows are unsafe.
 
This seems really obvious but be prepared to break a lot of throws. His knee on counterhit (Forgot the notation for it) is also pretty nasty. You have to be up close to do damage but he can also throw you out of your moves too so I think using some of her evasive moves like 44B or 1B+K (Among others) is a safe way to play him. Don't just stand in front of him, lol. Also be prepared to sidestep any predicted bullrushes for a free combo (Forgot the notation on that!). I'll have more later...

If you can't keep constant pressure, you're done. If you aren't the best rushdown expert, you'll have to dance in and around him. Moves that are safe and have some decent pushback also seem like a safe bet...moves which elude me right now so I'll have to do some playing around a bit later...

Oh yea, be careful with 44B because he can (and will) bullrush you.
 
Lets see, maxi, from what i can remember: After his AA and BB on block you can interrupt every single one of his options (i believe in certain cases he can still auto GI you but there are prolly moves that beat all of them). His 4Bis a good pressure string, but remember - 4BK(the guard crush jump kick) is a high, 4BB on block is unsafe (with the auto GI possibility) and 4BBK is a high. Also, his 66A hits mid/high, so block the first hit and duck and punish the second
 
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