Combo & Tech Trap Discussion Thread.

Tiamat said:
2[K] is staple after low wallsplats but otherwise it's just a parlor trick move

Engared: do what microgamer said, GS B6 GS A should beat sieg 3B. I don't think you'll have to delay the GS A. also, if you GS and hold 4 I suspect that his 3B would miss entirely or be a tip hit (no launch). The range GS B is blocked at affects options so keep that in mind.
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From my earlier testing, it gets beat if Sieg doesnt delay the 3B. Ill check again though.

From and holding 4,it is indeed a tip hit( approx 22 damage). However it will leave me a primed for ChiefHold A+B (or something along those lines)which has to be blocked(or if im fast, ducked) thus taking the pressure off him (which is exactly the thing which i do not want). Ill give it another shot though but right now im not really feelin' it. Gawd i hate 3B, bane of my existance. :(

2[K] is an awesome wakeup move :P Really screws with the mind lol.
 
Engared said:
From and holding 4,it is indeed a tip hit( approx 22 damage). However it will leave me a primed for ChiefHold A+B (or something along those lines)which has to be blocked(or if im fast, ducked) thus taking the pressure off him (which is exactly the thing which i do not want). Ill give it another shot though but right now im not really feelin' it. Gawd i hate 3B, bane of my existance.
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This is just theory talk, since I haven't tried it myself yet, but if you get hit by the tip of sieg's 3, you can do an empty GS to avoid the A+B and first hit of A. If they do the B you can GS A, and if they knee, the GS A should GI the knee if timed right. If they decide to stance shift, every other shift except for B+K will most likely get hit by GS A, and if they use B you could do something like GS KK, or GS . which would be a combo hit i think since he's in the auto-gi state.

I think these are possible, but I haven't studied what you can do at that point, but I think these are possible.
 
Sieg has to delay the 3B in order to beat GS A after blocking GS B6--'beat' meaning 3B TCing under GS A; otherwise if he does it immediately afterwards then GS A GIs it, if the timing is off GS A will sometimes land CH. If he delays it, GS B6 > GS KK or GS [B| > NSS A+B beats him (lol).

Oh, and I don't know if this was already known, but it seems that because of Sieg's awkward neutral stance footing, after NH GS A, if Sieg holds G then it's a back throw.
 
Engared: I tried it.

As I suspected, GS B6 (blocked) GS A will auto GI Sieg's 3B. I'm doing the 3B as fast as possible and I tried it at different ranges.


did some testing with NSS A+B > delay 33B tech trap
- against characters that 66B traps all sides on I think 33B is extra work for less damage
- against characters like sophie who can tech left to evade 66B you can use delayed 33B to cover this. it's harder to do but technically superior to the NSS A+B > NSS A+B trap
 
microgamer said:
Oh, and I don't know if this was already known, but it seems that because of Sieg's awkward neutral stance footing, after NH GS A, if Sieg holds G then it's a back throw.
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I believe that's how it is for all characters if they press G, though I may be wrong. I think when they press G they turn the opposite way that the GS A moved them to, exposing their back when you perform a throw.
 
false... hold G result in side throws is character specific...

voldo will ALWAYS be back thrown.

-LAU
 
from SC3 is character specific, but with voldo is still the same thing, cuz he can escape back throws, and nightmare´s back throw and right throw make same damage
 
MAILBOXARSON99 said:
Does NM have any situations where 2[K] is guaranteed/techtrap?
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Yes.
2[K] ->
GSKK - Normal combo. Good for RO and wall combo. (need good input timing for better guaranteed).
2A+B - Normal combo. Good for CF setup. (not reliable on side hit or specific characters.)
1->NSSibA(JF) - It catches Dead_R_N Tech-roll. Good damage. 1(crouch hit)->NSSibA is guaranteed, so it is good to hit Tech-roll. Hit lying body after 2[K] hit only.
iFC3B - It catches Dead_L_N Tech-roll. Hit lying body after 2[K] hit only.
1A - It catches Dead_L_N Tech-roll in far range only.
44BB -> It catches Play Dead. Good Damage and it can bring another Tech-trap.
2[K] - It catches Dead and Dead->Guard_Jump_Roll_Step.

Have fun.
 
SilentWall said:
Yes.
2[K] ->
GSKK - Normal combo. Good for RO and wall combo. (need good input timing for better guaranteed).
2A+B - Normal combo. Good for CF setup.
1->NSSibA(JF) - It catches Dead_R_N Tech-roll. Good damage. 1(crouch hit)->NSSibA is guaranteed, so it is good to hit Tech-roll. Hit lying body after 2[K] hit only.
iFC3B - It catches Dead_L_N Tech-roll. Hit lying body after 2[K] hit only.
1A - It catches Dead_L_N Tech-roll in far range only.
44BB -> It catches Play Dead. Good Damage and it can bring another Tech-trap.
2[K] - It catches Dead and Dead->Guard_Jump_Roll_Step.

Have fun.
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this is EXTREMELY misleading....

with what you're saying half your options = your opponent is a retard...

2[K] ->2[K] are you serious?

as far as i know... 2[K] is near impossible to land outside of slide/wall/GI setups... but you shouldn't use it for GI setups.... if they are dumb enough to NOT see this move coming... you should really teach them how to play the game instead of beating them up.

with the options you list above... you might as well add all the moves that hits ground. in the end... i feel like after 2[K] hits.. you only have very few good options...

its much better to keep things simple instead of doing all this crazy alternative options just to be 'different'

-LAU
 
SilentWall said:
2[K] - It catches Dead and Dead->Guard_Jump_Roll_Step.
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Lau, MMM... GI setups? I don't know. I just wanted to answer MAILBOXARSON99's question and gave him some hints. To decide 2[K] is good or not, he will think about it. If you want me fully explain it, I can do that.

MAILBOXARSON99 said:
Does NM have any situations where 2[K] is guaranteed/techtrap?
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Belial said:
he was asking for 2[K] applications that's all.
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If the opponent is going to play dead from a tech-trap, in this situation, 2[K] can be applied here.
22AB(Front hit)(close)->2[K]
22AB(Back hit)(far)->2[K]
(CH)NSSK->2[K]
33B->2[K]
NSSA+B->2[K]
WSB->2[K]
2[K]->2[K]
***Good or not? =D

2[K] guaranteed after Wall hits (high accuracy):
NSSK->W!->2[K]
(CH)4KK->W!->2[K]
(CH)6K->W!->2[K]
3[K]->W!->2[K]*
(CH)8K->W!->2[K]*
(CH)11K->W!->2[K]*
FC2B+G->W!->2[K]
66K6->W!->GSB6->GSA->W!->2[K]*
(CH)66K->W!->2[K]
66B->iagA->W!->4KK->2[K]
(CH)GS->NSSbA->W!->2[K]
(CH)GSB6->GSA->W!->2[K]
NSSbA->W!->2[K]
GSKK->W!(face off)->2[K]
GSKK(far)->W!->2[K]
NSS[A]->NSSb:A->W!->2[K]
***Are there some follow-ups better than 2[K]? =D Yea.

And I should make this title, "2[K]'s follow-ups" separately.
2[K]'s follow-ups (It works on most characters):
2[K] ->
GSKK - Normal combo. Good for RO and wall combo. (need good input timing for better guaranteed).
2A+B - Normal combo. Good for CF setup. (Not reliable on side hit or specific characters.)
1->NSSibA(JF) - It catches Dead_R_N Tech-roll. Good damage. 1(crouch hit)->NSSibA is guaranteed, so it is good to hit Tech-roll. Hit lying body after 2[K] hit only.
iFC3B - It catches Dead_L_N Tech-roll. Hit lying body after 2[K] hit only. Low damage.
1A - It catches Dead_L_N Tech-roll in far range only. Good damage.
44BB -> It catches Play Dead. Good Damage and it can bring another Tech-trap.
***In my knowledge, I think that it is already simple and basic. Each follow-ups can cover each follow-ups' weakness. However, probably there are better set out there..
 
I say 2[K] is best used when it's a trap from a wall splat. In any other situation my room mate can jump/step it on reaction, and I think that's what Lau says most somewhat competent players should be able to do if it's not a guaranteed trap.

With that said, I think it's worth using the 2[K] wall splat trap because it resets the combo scaling, and it combos into GS KK (at least for 2P NM lol).
 
yeah wallsplat to iWR > NSS A+B > GS KK (w) > 2[K] is like my B&B wallcombo. depending on the distance and angle from the wall the 2[K] will be guaranteed
 
Does anyone else find the iWR NSS A+B GS KK combo harder to land on some characters than another? It feels like the window for landing the combo so that the NSS A+B launches is smaller for some characters than for others. For example, Hilde.
 
I've never had problems with the WR B to the NSS A+B

if you were talking about doing the iWR B itself in wallcombos I would say that it seems harder to do on some characters. amy seems to fall quickly or maybe it is just a height thing
 
for the iWS B relaunch wall combo to work it really depends on the following....

1) you need at LEAST a mid wall splat...
2) if you're doing it more than one relaunch they need to tech.
3) this really is there to look pretty but the damage sucks ass....

-LAU
 
Doesn't the damage suck ass no matter what you do? Unless you start a combo with 1A6 GS KK or NSS [A] NSS b:A combo nightmare's wall damage usually winds up maxing out at about 80 points no matter what you do. iWR B is usually the best option because of the followups imo
 
the damage for the iWS stuff on wall will suck no matter what you do

44B is really the way to go if you wanna score huge damage and insane options.

-LAU
 
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