Here's what you'd be left with

kilik is a bad matchup for many characters. amy is a bad matchup for many characters, probably even MOST characters, that's still not enough reason to ban dude.

by your logic virtually every top tier character in every game would be banned. top tier characters inherently have the advantage in the majority of matchups
 
tribaL said:
so, in short, you haven't "really tried".

let it be known that i'm not picking on you, i'm proving a point.
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I really tried finding a solution. But this solution looked hopeless, so I didn't really try it in practice.
Have you tried getting around the bubbles as a low-range character? Or are you just playing Algol, Hilde, Kilik or Mina, and thinking "if it's easy for me, it's easy for them too." ?



Tiamat, I can't really keep that discussion up because I haven't fought an ASURA-happy Kilik yet, and probably not the best range-Kiliks either, and I don't see why Amy would be so hard to beat for good players.

But to make things clear... My logic is not that everyone with a noticeable advantage should be banned. My logic is that if a character completely locks all the options of several characters, ...it's better to ban ONE character, than soft-ban more than one character.
(Edit: That said, I don't know how much of an advantage Kilik and Amy (and Hilde...) can have over some characters exactly, and against how many.)
 
Plume said:
I really tried finding a solution. But this solution looked hopeless, so I didn't really try it in practice.
Have you tried getting around the bubbles as a low-range character? Or are you just playing Algol, Hilde, Kilik or Mina, and thinking "if it's easy for me, it's easy for them too." ?
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yes i have. i play a lot of different characters and i usually like making things difficult on myself. i'm one of those crazy people who find it fun to win and feel like they earned it. fortunately, testing different things yields great results. trust me, even if you get hit with a bubble it the process of hitting algol with something, you can turn the the tide in your favor. the bubbles don't yield that much, and they don't do that much damage. stepping and gi'ing also helps a great deal.

Tiamat, I can't really keep that discussion up because I haven't fought an ASURA-happy Kilik yet, and probably not the best range-Kiliks either, and I don't see why Amy would be so hard to beat for good players.

amy is fast. she also gets a lot of frames on hit, and she's safe as hell. she does chip damage, true, and she doesn't have the best of range, but she can easily compensate for that.

But to make things clear... My logic is not that everyone with a noticeable advantage should be banned. My logic is that if a character completely locks all the options of several characters, ...it's better to ban ONE character, than soft-ban more than one character.
(Edit: That said, I don't know how much of an advantage Kilik and Amy (and Hilde...) can have over some characters exactly, and against how many.)


how much can algol really "lock all options down"? i haven't seen that happen before.
 
Okay, Maxi versus Algol, tell me how Maxi isn't locked up. I'm repetitive, but I don't have enough experience playing as the other characters to talk about them.

You can dodge and GI bubbles. But when you're getting close enough for 1A or such, GIing bubbles and dodging isn't an option anymore. Unless you somehow have a good range attack with good execution speed. Which as far as I know, Maxi does not have. (And the attack needs to move the weapon away from your character's body, to lower the chances of getting interrupted by a bubble.)
 
You are doing too much theory. Algol's bubbles are not an invincible shield, all characters can deal with it, using GI, step, or otherwise. I would like to see someone beat me 10-0 with algol, and my maxi is not even that good yet.
 
Organous said:
Setsuka: Just Impacts better.
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I LOL'ed

Organous said:
Allowed characters
Seoung Mi-Na
Sophitia
Talim
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Mina Soul Gauge Game is like the 2nd best in the game after Voldo's, she makes every other character on your list look like she doesn't even have a Soul Gauge. Ban.

Sophitia has had the ban hammer coming since Soul Edge, please ban, screw nerfs.

Talim was used in Tournament finals with victories attached, obviously we're missing something. Ban.

That is all.
 
actually Raphael should not be banned for teleport because it actually helps your opponent if you do it,

he should be banned because 3B is annoying
 
By the way, the first post IS a slippery post. I'm too lazy to read all of pages 2-5, but I know what a slippery slope argument is and that's very much one.
 
The original post is a slippery slope, but so is the direction the character banning has gone in this game. Banning Algol back in the day really opened the door to some scrub behavior from people who don't realize that the reason for the ban was a special accommodation so that new players to the series would not be driven away. It's supposed to provide a fairly level tournament setting so that new players would not have as much to catch up to. But it's not to encourage the attitude of anti everything you don't approve of in the game. You don't see that in any other fighting game community. They didn't have to dumb down HD Remix when they released it just so new players wouldn't have to learn how to avoid fireball traps.
 
KDZ: that's definitely what happened last time I played your Cass isn't it??? ^__^

granted that was over 2 years ago, in SC3
 
As for Algol, you don't exactly have to JI them. Therefore it isn't impossible (to do consistently).

Especially if a character has a mid auto-GI with a bigger window and/or a followup (with some characters, both the bubbles and the followup hit, if it's a launcher you might actually get extra height). That is, if you get close enough. There's also characters that can tech crouch some bubbles. As well, characters that have good fast ranged pokes instantly give Algol more trouble.

So there are a few characters that do have good matchups vs Algol. It seems annoying at first, but I actually think he's fun to play against now.
 
Archangel said:
By the way, the first post IS a slippery post. I'm too lazy to read all of pages 2-5, but I know what a slippery slope argument is and that's very much one.
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arch. please, feel free to read my response:

tribaL said:
ok, the stupid banter about slipperyslope and all that other bullshit aside, let's look at the facts:

-there was a ban on CAS characters because of certain adv/disadv. from the normal characters. this ban has stayed true since sc3. those adv/disadv are less apparent now and the character balancing is lightyears ahead of sc3. this, now, isn't game-breaking.

-there was a ban on star wars characters, because they didn't "belong" in the game because of some bullshit story that was made-up to give all these idiots a reason to find this great amazing soul edge/calibur sword. yea, yoda and vader are consol specific (kind of), but apprentice isn't. this isn't game-breaking.

-there was a ban on the extra characters for a few reasons: again, they don't fit in the bullshit "storyline"; they gain certain advantages compared to their counterparts; they also have disadvantages from their counterparts. this isn't game-breaking.

-there was a ban on algol because... well, for a lot of reasons. ultimately, people didn't want to have to be forced to learn how to play against a character that was vastly different than the rest of the cast. this isn't game-breaking.

-now, we have some lame asses calling for a ban on hilde because of her RO ability. in actuality, that's a guise for people not wanting to learn how to play against something that actually makes them f***ing think and actually have to use defense to win the match.

isn't that a bit of a snow ball effect in and of itself? i'm sure this thread can be used as a parody for some nice tongue-in-cheek humor, but the reality is that it's not too far off point.

i can see it now: people complaining about kilik's asura and fotd to asura ro ability.... yoshi's imcf to 3b,44bb, 44bb, a:b+k ro ability...

how bout this: don't be a bitch and just play the game.
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