runis... honestly.. i dotn' think this thread should even be open.. or a discussion should even be held.... it should be closed honestly.. why..
most people arguements are ....
1) if you wiff on a small stage.. game over.... but that also same applies to almost eveyone else in the game... if you wiff on a small stage you will also get ring o ut..... amy 33b...sophie...cass... yoshi.. ivy... lizard...etc.. etc...so the ring out game is not only in hildies favour... but she is however dominant in it....but THAT still doesn't change the game at all or break it...there are ring out's in the game.. and if you can use it.. than all the probs to you..and ti's not like hildie just stand there and instant ko you.. it's all up to the player and his skill to get you out..so the stage thing is not a big factor here.. it can break you or win for you...
2) too much frames advantages...but it is true that she has a lot of advantage moves.. but they are not broken to the point that they are more than 50/50...example hildie does charge lv 3b wich leaves her at a (+) frames... yes!!! than she does charge lv 3a right after....if you are cass .. you can do 1b... and interupt the a... or you can do 11b with cass... so even though she is at a (+) frames... it doesn't break the game at all because the core accpet of the system is still there 50/50 for both players.... and yes of course hildie can do some other moves after the lv 3b.... but than once again it is proving the fact that it is still 50/50... which sc is all about a 100% 50/50 game with high mid and lows....
this is most of the arguements that are being brought up... about hildie... but!! if you really look at it.. it isn't really much...her damage is high but not broken...100points is like ivy's jfcs... or appreantace jf move.....many people have 100point damage...sure her's can ring out and hit hard.. but than again so can asshy... so there is noting really broken here.. if you actually sit down and look at it... but hey.. what do i know ....hahaha .. and that is why i think it should be closed...T_T
I'll play devil's advocate here. Again, these are not necessarily MY opinions per se, but the other side's point.
1. I have indeed utilized Ivy's RO game and have seen an excellent Asty's RO game, so RO's isn't exactly exclusive to Hilde even on the high levels. BUT, what makes Hilde "broken" is that she can throw these RO attempts not only constantly, but with
little risk. We get back again at her risk-reward scenario. Ivy's RO moves are all unsafe, easily steppable; thus, you WILL get punished on block/whiff. Astaroth's RO game, while fast, is also unsafe. Simple example would be Bull rush; the non-charged fast version of this is very unsafe on block. His RO throws can not only be broken, but can be ducked as well; thus avoiding the RO and awarded with a lot of frames for punishment.
In short, the average character can have an excellent ringout game, but the opposing player facing the RO attempt
has the opportunity to step, evade or otherwise counterattack and punish an RO attempt.
Hilde, however, has little risk constantly going for the RO attempt. All of her charges are advantage on block, and I don't think I need to mention C3A's godliness again. But the Hilde player can CONSTANTLY use this with little to no fear of being counterattacked. This pressure is heavily tipped to Hilde's favor unlike for any other character's RO game, which is personally what I can see as imbalanced.
2. Her decent charges (all but one of them actually) give an average of around +3-4 on block. A smart Hilde player will not ALWAYS go for consecutive charge attacks (at least Ceirnian doesn't) and will go for safe moves after a charge, throw, or otherwise mix it up. So you're looking at an i16 charge, an i8-10 2A/B/A/7_8K or an i13-14 throw as a Hilde's options after the advantage charge. I'd like to see a character who can outspeed Hilde at i8-10. 2A/A/B/7_8K-ing you to death is the safest move according to frames, and no character has a decent answer to it.
In short, blocking does not save you from the mixup (or lack thereof the mixup since Hilde's so safe that she doesn't need to use it), and the risk/reward for attempting to interrupt her second move is heavily stacked against Hilde's opponent. Combined this with the potential of every charge being a potential RO attempt really gives Hilde all but the kitchen sink in mounting an offensive assault and attack.
3. Yes, every character has the potential for 100 or more damage. But these come from UNSAFE moves as the beginning setup. When these startup moves are avoided (or the move themselves, like iCS), the character is pretty unsafe enough for punishment. Hilde, again, is quite the opposite.
In other words,
dealing 100 damage presents little to no risk to the Hilde player.
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I'll have to give a counterargument though; one can say that simply tightening your defenses exceptionally when facing a Hilde is a good counterstrategy on its own; one that I can agree with.
