Kilik Matchup Thread: Finalized

I would have though Astaroth would be 6/4 in Asty's favor. Maybe I don't know how to play against him, But he feels almost as tough to play against as Ivy. Better at long range and better at close range with him grabs.

Nightmare I would think would be 6/4 in Kilik's favor. Once you learn to anticipate when the horizontal highs are coming you can easily punish with any move that TC. Some of his mixups can be interrupted with 6A. RO potential is his biggest threat to Kilik that I can see.
 
I agree with S-U here, Astaroth vs Kilik is a dead 5:5

Kilik got what is needed to fight the golem, you just need to do your homework to find out :)
 
SU- You need explain how X vs. Kilik is in her favor. Kilik can zone her pretty well and punish her decently, while if she gets in close she's a problem. I don't see how it's not dead even
 
Update:

I thought I would do something a little different for the Kilik vs. Astaroth matchup and Kilik vs. Nightmare.

Kilik vs. Astaroth

First I have to say that I believe Saitoh is the best Astaroth worldwide in SCIV. So his opinion on the matchup means alot. The problem in this matchup is Bullrush and that's it. Nothing more nothing less. Both can space well with mid-range and long-range tools just about the same but Bullrush for the most part eliminates some of Kilik's best options such as WSB and for the most part Kilik cannot step Bullrush at all. The thing about this matchup though is post Bullrush there are mixup situations that must be understood in order to better cope with it.

Last but not least Saitoh is the definitive best SC player in France. I personally believe from what I have seen he is the best Astaroth worldwide but for the sake of things I will say arguable best with the only other major candidate over here in the states I believe is JasonL.

With that said here are some vids for reference.



Here are some matchups between the top 2 in france (#1 Saitoh) (#2 DTN) to get more background on Saitoh and the level of competition out there. I believe DTN was also the #1 SCI player ever.



Kilik vs. Nightmare

I'm not gonna even bother explain this matchup. The reason is because this is probably one of the most confusing matchups in SC. td2985 you are right that Kilik has greats TC moves for Nightmare's stances but its not enough in the bigger picture because Nightmare can be effective in a completely different manner. In every matchup there is a risk/reward scenario and in most cases one benefits more than the other. In this matchup both deal heavy damage and Nightmare is some cases has the better ring-out game to go with it.

To better explain this one here goes some videos of who I believe is without question the best Nightmare player worldwide (I hear Lau has a good Nightmare but I have yet to see his or hear about his vs. this level comp or against this level Kilik). What's also good about this matchup is that this is arguably one of the top 3 or top 4 Kilik's worldwide and they play each other all the time. For reference top 4 Kiliks are Something-Unique (me), Wing-Zero, Hayate, Kura in no particular order. Outside of some rather dumb unnecessary imo MO 2/8 B+K's this is the best representation of this matchup.






Last but not least here goes a side vid to give more background into the greatness of this nightmare outside of the Kilik matchup.

This is Keev vs. DTN:



Wing-Zero:

I changed Kilik vs. Xianghua back because of you if u didn't notice it's a 5/5.
 
SU: Oops, I didn't see that lol. My bad about that

I'd like to see some discussion on Kilik vs. Cervy. I haven't played against an dedicated Cervy player so I was wondering if someone could share some light on the matchup if they have experience with it.

LAU - I'd like to hear your thoughts on Rock vs. Kilik. You're probably the best Rock player I know, so please share what you know :)
 
Update:

This one has to do with Kilik vs. Ivy. Very interesting I might add.

Stolen from the Ivy matchup thread.

Kilik: 7:3(IvyFanboy)/7:3(mrcfkane)/6:4(NofaceKill3r)/6:4(malek)/6:4(Hayate)/5:5(dittO)/5:5(Woahhzz)/5:5(Ring)

Linkrkc is unsure about this matchup since he doesn't have sufficient Kilik practice.

However I think this is the funniest thing ever.

To add to that list Something-Unique (me) believes its a 3/7 in favor of Ivy, Wing_Zero believes its a 4/6 in favor of Ivy.

This makes this matchup the most difficult thing ever to decide. For the sake of things it would average out at a 4/6 in favor of Ivy so i'm gonna change it to that. Very very funny matchup.

Here are two vids I thought was hot just for the fun of it. Kura is playing Raph vs. chaos a good Kilik player.
It gives insight into how good Kura is and just how much work he had to put in against Kilik. I hear he's going to Evo and I believe he's the one to beat next to RTD. If people haven't seen his page they should. I must stress out of all the Soul Calibur vids I have seen Kura's page has the highest level of competition out of them all. All the vids are worth seeing.



Anyway I got some summer college courses coming up this week and while I enjoyed making the matchup thread I feel like I wasted valuable time lol. So i'll finish this up with the Amy, Taki, and Rock discussions soon and that will be it for me lol.
 
Cervantis
-I think it's actually one of the BEST match-ups for Kilik, since Kilik has a solution to pretty much all of Cervantis' common moves. Just REMEMBER TO BLOCK LOW!

1) Flying into the sky and dropping thing
-:2::B:

2) Flying torpedo thing
-WR and then :2::A::A::A:

3) Run at you and then horizontal attack thing
-Can tech/duck under the horziontal with :2::K::B:

4) The horizontal attack where he spreads the two swords outward (ie. like swimming)
-:4: :K::+::B:
-Actually, :4: :K::+::B: solves most of Cervy's horizontals

5) Verticals
-You can just block it and then do :4: :K::+::B: at the end of his sequence
-Or you can just GI with :K::+::B:

6) The stab repeatedly quickly one
-Same idea, block and then :4: :K::+::B:
-Or even better, when your back is facing the edge, block and then :B::+::G: him for a ringout!!!
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Saitoh said:
I agree with S-U here, Astaroth vs Kilik is a dead 5:5

Kilik got what is needed to fight the golem, you just need to do your homework to find out :)
Click to expand...

It's counter-intuitive, but this is what I usually do

a) Super aggressive
-Jump in with :6: :K::K:, see, usually the guy is expecting a :6::K::K::B:, so he will continue to block
-This is when you :A::+::G: (Throw) him!
-After he is down, you can get in one more hit of :1::A::+::B:
-If you are lucky, this will throw him again, if not, DON'T do it again! Astroth will def try to bullrush you!
-So you do the :1::A::+::B: and WR immediately, this will sidestep the BR (Bullrush)

b) Block and then :4::K::+::B:
-This is probably the most important move for me against anyone
-Block whatever he gives and immediately hit with a low
-Also, if you are quick enough, you can also get some ringouts with Block and :B::+::G:

c) :4::K::B: and :2::A::B:
-Knock him down with :4::K::B:
-When he tries to get up, ring him out with the :2::A::B:
-The beauty of :2::A::B: is that the first part looks like :2::A::A::A:, which will make him block low, resulting in a ring out

d) When he does the low spin attack followed by the vertical chop
-(This assumes that you can distinguish b/w the double low spin and then single low spin with vertical cho)
-You can actually gracefully GI that by moving your low block to a high block by moving a quarter circle on your joystick....

Cheers,

StarberryBSD
 
Unique,

I usually have luck stepping Bullrush as long as I use 3/9 as opposed to 2/8. Does this not work in your experience?
 
Nightmare: Most of his options out of GS can be beat out by Asura, as well as most of his NSS options. 6/4 in Kiliks favor

Lizardman: Again Asura beats out most of his options in crawl and his good transitions into crawl are punishable. This should be 6/4 Kiliks favor.

I do agree with most of these matchups so I'll get SU to see if we should discuss anything else before the final charts go out.
 
wing:

try this with rock... here's ONE of the advantages with rock vs kilik... (kinda at work now)
CT works well against kilik... even sometimes spamming it abit... BUT
here's one of my setups that works pretty well

ROCK: 11K -> blocked -> CT
this kills anything that kilik does that's from FC/WS except WS K/FC K everything else will get CT

to go against WS K/FC K there's plenty of options there as well

FC K on hit... same crap CT again... and once again only WS/FC K works....

if i wanna beat FC K/WS K there's multiple options that i can use to beat those two moves specifically.

asura also doesn't really work well against rock... mainly because once rock is close range he hardly ever does anything that is weapon based.

-LAU
 
Something-Unique said:
Update:
To better explain this one here goes some videos of who I believe is without question the best Nightmare player worldwide (I hear Lau has a good Nightmare but I have yet to see his or hear about his vs. this level comp or against this level Kilik). What's also good about this matchup is that this is arguably one of the top 3 or top 4 Kilik's worldwide and they play each other all the time. For reference top 4 Kiliks are Something-Unique (me), Wing-Zero, Hayate, Kura in no particular order. Outside of some rather dumb unnecessary imo MO 2/8 B+K's this is the best representation of this matchup.
Click to expand...

No offense to Keev but he is not the best NM player. I'd say Kura/LAU/me > keev. Whether you agree with the NM players I specifically listed or not, saying Keev is "without question" the best NM is totally wrong.

I still say 6-4 NM favor. 11K and WS B owns kilik's face
 
ShadowFox said:
Nightmare: Most of his options out of GS can be beat out by Asura, as well as most of his NSS options. 6/4 in Kiliks favor
Click to expand...

Really? damn.. I don't really remember feeling that

beating out MOST options doesn't mean NM is actually using most options against this match up....

-LAU
 
Tiamat said:
No offense to Keev but he is not the best NM player. I'd say Kura/LAU/me > keev. Whether you agree with the NM players I specifically listed or not, saying Keev is "without question" the best NM is totally wrong.

I still say 6-4 NM favor. 11K and WS B owns kilik's face
Click to expand...


completely right, in all apsects
 
People need to stop saying "this is the best range to fight Ivy at." There is no best range to fight Ivy at.


The best way to fight Ivy is to range float and abuse her stance limitations:

1. She can't transition between SW and WP

2. Her CL stance is not threatening in terms of damage and mixups


The important thing is to try to limit her SW options with WS B pushback, Asura to stop mixups, and 1B to abuse the fact that she doesn't have any quick step killers outside of 2A/WS A range.
 
I was just going to casually read this thread with no real reason to respond, considering I felt Kilik vs Raphael: 6:4 was appropriate. Then Something Unique changed it to 5:5. I understand I'm not a top rated player here compared to some of the voices making this list, but how the HELL is that an even matchup? You don't main Raphael, I do, and Kilik's are always an uphill battle.

Raphael CANNOT compete with Kilik's damage at all. Raphael's combo's are either weak, hard to set up(Prep A, SEA B, and SEB B, all from prep), or both.

Raphael benefits greatly from spacing/zoning his opponent, but vs Kilik, it's just not happening.

Raphael's Preparation can be dealt with easily. Kilik's 1B already RAPES Preparation, but he doesn't need it considering how easy it is to shutdown anyway. I wont go into detail but if anyone wants to know the 2 main methods, just ask. Making my opponents smart vs prep only helps me as a Raphael player because I KNOW I can't rely on it.

Asura is a universal pain in the ass so I wont bitch about that with anything Raphael-specific. Raphael has a very strong kick with 6K and 44K, so it could be worse.

Kilik may not be a sidestepping machine like Hilde and Taki, but his moves have many step properties in them(1B in particular comes to mind). check your arsenal for all moves that have left-step built into them, left step hurts Raphael's offensive greatly.

It's not that Kilik is an anti-christ to Raphael's game(That's Hilde, Amy, Soph, Taki, and good Ivy's job), but he simply out classes Raphael. He has better tools, better range, better damage, more safety, and ASURA. The videos YOU PROVIDED pretty much showed the same exact thing I'm talking about.

Kilik vs Raphael is NOT a 5:5 matchup.....
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....I just reread the post and he changed it in the opposite direction

.......wtf.

I'm not deleting that, it's still a strong explaination as to why That match up is 6:4 in Kilik's favor.

but yeah...sorry for the confusion.
 
Tiamat said:
No offense to Keev but he is not the best NM player. I'd say Kura/LAU/me > keev. Whether you agree with the NM players I specifically listed or not, saying Keev is "without question" the best NM is totally wrong.

I still say 6-4 NM favor. 11K and WS B owns kilik's face
Click to expand...

I think this is still 5/5. If Kilik predicts correctly, then he can punish NM for half life for attempting those moves. This matchup is pretty much who can guess/predict better.

LAU - That Rock stuff is pretty gay, haha
 
HolyForce:

Nice I have used that for Lizardman before but I never thought about it for Astaroth. I have to try that thanks.

ShadowFox:

Neither of those things u mentioned are enough in those matchups.

Tiamat:

I would have to disagree with you. Kura is a special case because he doesn't seem to have mastery over many characters even though he plays them. Its more him as a player with his reaction, excellent decision making, etc. Just lookin at his page besides his skill as a player the only characters that he seems to have some form of mastery over to compliment his skills as a player is Raphael, Kilik, and Siggy. In fact Yoosee another Nightmare player on his page has a better Nightmare than he does.

I won't comment on Lau's Nightmare because like I said before in my previous post (I hear Lau has a good Nightmare but I have yet to see his or hear about his vs. this level comp or against this level Kilik)).

What I can comment on though is that no offense but I definitely believe he has a better nightmare than you (I've seen some if not all ur vids) and Kura (even though Kura is a better player and I would even argue that he looks like the best SC player). Again though even Yoosee's Nightmare on his page shows his up.

That's what i'm seeing anyway since neither of us has had the privelege to play Keev, Kura, in SCIV and can only judge from vids.

With that said I only see argument for maybe Yoosee, possibly Kura, and again I can't speak on Lau.

Last but not least Kilik vs. Nightmare is not a 6/4 for Nightmare.

Nofacekill3r:

I've played this matchup a shitload of times vs. Woahhzz. She is definitely the only character in the game that can dictate where Kilik has to fight outside his element. The best range to fight Ivy at is not a universal comment. It's a comment ment for this matchup. Kilik is at his best anywhere from mid-far range. She has all the time in the world to pick stances from that distance and beat him out at both ranges in fact forcing him to come in. I think the problem is that most Ivy's out there including Linkrkc (since he said it himself that he has limited Kilik experience) don't know how extremely well she can shut Kilik down. WP is good against Kilik but isn't even needed. SW is beyond good enough and for the most part rapes him being both to fast and anti his slow startups with 9B. WSB is way to slow in this matchup and if your getting pushed back by that move in this matchup u simply don't know how to shut him down. Has nothing to do with u as an Ivy player but more in not understanding how Kilik works.

For whatever this is worth the only reason Woahhzz believes this is a 5/5 is because of Asura.

BelovedChild:

Thanks for the input and I appreciate it but please next time read the thread because it was updated a long time ago. Besides that I would agree with your post completely.
 
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