Looking And Waiting For Something Special?

Update: Dec 25 - Patience finally pays off?

SC is back! Get ready, fans! http://twitpic.com/3j16ui

Well I'm sure most of you were worried, as all the surprises we've seen so far have been Tekken related! But you were promised something spectacular, and now you finally get what you've been waiting for... Daishi Odashima, Lead designer for the Soulcalibur series has just opened up his own twitter!

Odashima-san used to be a tournament player in Japan back in the Soulcalibur 1 days! Since he's the new director of all things Soulcalibur at Namco, and by his own admission, has the final say on his team; you should follow him on twitter. Merry Christmas everyone?

I say again!! The day has finally come when I can tell you all about it. Soul Calibur is BACK !!

Update: Dec 23 - Katsuhiro Harada recently unveiled a new trailer and character for Tekken Tag Tournament 2. He also promises that more surprises are on the way:

Thanks for tons of comment !! OK next !!
I have something new to tweet about tomorrow night. so get ready!
(Not a footage. But important)

Update: Dec 21 - from Katsuhiro Harada's twitter:

Sorry guys I'm so busy now.
However, I want to show you something within the course of a few days...

Original Post - Namco-Bandai's Katsuhiro Harada has been having a lot of fun with his twitter account lately; their community manager FilthieRich is no different:

Looking and waiting for something special?
Make sure to continue following and tell your friends to stay tuned ....

What could this cryptic message possibly mean? Well that I couldn't really tell you. All I can say is that Namco-Bandai is probably planning some big surprises for the holiday, and you should pay attention to the twitter feeds. Just look at that face... you know he's up to no good!

We'll do our best to keep you updated with any relevant information here on 8WayRun.

 

FINALLY !!!

I just cant wait for SC5 .. XD

 

isn't strength and crappiness relative ?

Would the game be more fun if every character was a hilde variant or a mina variant? It seems like if every character was mina level, in order to get ahead, you'd have to take some risks and get lucky. On the other hand, if every character was hilde level, the victor is generally the one that makes the least mistake (and therefore take the least risks).

fixed.

Generally with fighters you want a series of mistakes needed to lose. If a character is constantly forced to guess they lack skilled control of scenarios, and a mistake is more unfortunate than poor judgement. If a character can win off one or two mistakes, it doesn't leave enough time to establish depth to the match. There's not enough time and room to read an opponent or set up, you merely need to fish and hope you hit before your life runs out. ROs should stand as multiple mistakes: poor positioning, guessing wrong, playing unsafely, being predictable. When you have characters that can win off 1 bad decision with too few circumstances it's more about the character being good than the player. With most characters an RO feels like you were doing many things wrong for it to occur and that's the way it should be.

So say we had only Mina vs Mina. Sound balanced but for the most part it's still 2 people step guarding and punishing. She still forced to guess too often because she lacks safe options to depend on and it's not a deep match. If it's Hilde vs Hilde...it's whoever fucks up first, which makes it so an average Hilde has too much of a chance to get lucky against a skilled Hilde running the same strategy.

Fighting games need to force you to take chances, but NOT all the time. You need balance in the middle. You shouldn't NEED to take chances from neutral and you shouldn't be forced to play 100% safe to win. Fighting games are a mix of reaction and reading the opponent and that requires control of scenarios and time and space to test for holes in the others strategy. If you have no control and no room for error, it's a bad game. The more room for mistakes, generally the more consistent the w/l between players will be, because it limits how far luck will get you. 3 mistakes should be the absolute minimum to get you killed.

 

Its been a while since I've been on 8way, as since LoL came out I've spent most of my time on that. Now that SC5 is coming I repurchased a used copy of sc4 and started practicing. I hope that #5 is on Xbox 360 (and ps3), or else I may have to get a ps3 :(

 

I'm so glad to see people coming back to SC. Hype!

 

I just so heavily hope that they incorporate more feints and cancels, along with speeding the game up so that I can achieve maximum stylage. Like, "Damn, who was that cat LP just shit on?", "A new SSF4 player." =D

 

SC4 is pretty balanced from mid to top. But things like Amy's 2B+K shouldn't be in this game, a fast low that stuns and you can combo off on?...this isn't Tekken. .

A fast low that combos that had ASS RANGE AND WAS UNSAFE.

fixed for you good sir. remember i played the bitch.

However, what you say is correct, balence shouldn't be boring. Because if SC5 is like SC2 i won't play that shit. Sorry to be like that but i like to watch matches, not fall alseep during the matches.

 

I'd love to see Siegs flapjack a straight low throw, like Cass' or X's. That would be nice.

 

isn't strength and crappiness relative ?

Would the game be more fun if every character was a hilde variant or a mina variant? It seems like if every character was mina level, in order to get ahead, you'd have to take some risks and get lucky. On the other hand, if every character was hilde level, the victor is generally the one that makes the least mistakes (and therefore take the least risks).

You know, that´s why i didn´t came up with SCIV chars as an example of strong or crappy chars, ´cause crappy in SCIV is actually uber-crappy and strong can be too strong(Hilde).

SC(DC) and SCII were imo fine games when it came to skill and!! the characters strength. Maybe except for X and 2G Nightmare though...

SC4 is pretty balanced from mid to top. But things like Amy's 2B+K shouldn't be in this game, a fast low that stuns and you can combo off on?...this isn't Tekken. Hell in Tekken those kinda of fast lows get your launched on block.

Low tier characters in this game a really low tier. Talim has an unsafe BB, so does Zasalamel for that matter. Way too many negative frames for some of these characters, leaving very few options.

I feel like every character should be scary to some degree.

Yep, it´s almost silly that some characters BB´s are even unsafe in SCIV! It´s like they are begging to get punished by Sophie and cassy... lol

Every character should have a variety of really good moves.

 

Ah. But this is the problem - define a 'good' move.

 

Ah. But this is the problem - define a 'good' move.

I know this definition varyies between different people, but for me it is rather simple. It must be a move which is worth using it. It must "work" most of the time you use it than it doesn´t. So, it shouldn´t be a high risk/high reward move.

In particular, I am thinking about moves that give + frames on hit(a must) or even kd, decent range, doesn´t need to be a launcher on NH(on CH combo-starter?). It shouldn´t be safe but almost safe on block(only chip damage through punishing). Should track at least in one direction. And maybe something sprecial... like TC frames or something like that.


That´s just an example for a mid move though...

Mmmh, now that i think about it, reminds me of Astas 6K atm.

 

I actually think that the balance in SC4 is great, aside from the few characters that you don't really need much of a brain to use (Amy, Hilde, Algol w/ bubble shield). In SC4 the lower tier characters (Talim, Rock, Mina etc) do have a fighting chance at winning, we just don't see them winning tournaments because most people aren't dedicated enough or even capable of getting to that level with them (aside from a few like Kura). Believe it or not I've met people who exclusively play low tier characters because they are low tier. And even having experienced it myself by maining Talim in SC3, I can tell you the feeling you get from seeing all your thousands of hours of hard work finally pay off can be so much better than learning a couple of moves and toe stabbling or charge launching someone to death. So part of me actually hopes that SC5's balance will be similar to SC4's, but without the braindead characters so people who aren't really very skilled at the game don't shortcut their way to victory by not having to think as much. Those characters should at least be made JF heavy or have complex inputs so they require some more skill to be good with.

The other part of me wants a much more balanced game than SC4, but only because "fairness" is what the majority of people want, and while I find that having situations that are not fair (and the stakes are against me) can make things more interesting, the majority of people don't think this way. So for the sake of keeping the most players possible I would want a most balanced game as possible. And not to mention that also means we will see more variety in characters being used and winning tournaments. I just hope that with a more balanced game it doesn't mean that the characters that you actually need to put more work into to win with are not only like that only due to input difficulty, but also due to having to use your brain to think more.

Here's hoping for Namco to find a nice inbetween point with SC5's balance.

 

I started out playing Zas. One of the reason I play male characters exclusively is because they're usually low tier. Here's what sucked about SC4, they reduced characters' move-sets significantly. With an already small number of options, low tiers player had to make even more cut backs just to avoid getting killed.

Playing low tier you come across many ignorant players that haven't bothered learning anti strats for your character. After all that hard work you put in, people lose out of ignorance. Take the win but that's not skill. So you might win one tournament, but once people do their homework; that window closes. Bad is simply bad.

The focus for low tier players; making it work means having great reaction, mine is pretty good. (Because you're going to be defending often, fuck TV lag) The Kura, Omega, Keev...etc all have great reaction. However, once people figure out your 5 move character, the less options you have. Soon it trickles down to mid options into grabfests.

I recently picked up Raphael, played him seriously for a while. Then started to remove stuff. Killed his prep stance from my game. Killed his aggression into just turtling and waiting to be attacked then countering. After those cuts I was left with a safe Raph that you can hardly ever sidestep or punish, but the most damage he can do without catching you sleeping is GRAB. Otherwise, lots of poking and low poking, with poking punishers, and every once in awhile I gamble with sidestep and whiff punish with 33KB. After playing like this for awhile and I picked up Tekken 6, because I was basically playing the same game.

 

I started out playing Zas. One of the reason I play male characters exclusively is because they're usually low tier. Here's what sucked about SC4, they reduced characters' move-sets significantly. With an already small number of options, low tiers player had to make even more cut backs just to avoid getting killed.

Playing low tier you come across many ignorant players that haven't bothered learning anti strats for your character. After all that hard work you put in, people lose out of ignorance. Take the win but that's not skill. So you might win one tournament, but once people do their homework; that window closes. Bad is simply bad.

The focus for low tier players; making it work means having great reaction, mine is pretty good. (Because you're going to be defending often, fuck TV lag) The Kura, Omega, Keev...etc all have great reaction. However, once people figure out your 5 move character, the less options you have. Soon it trickles down to mid options into grabfests.

I recently picked up Raphael, played him seriously for a while. Then started to remove stuff. Killed his prep stance from my game. Killed his aggression into just turtling and waiting to be attacked then countering. After those cuts I was left with a safe Raph that you can hardly ever sidestep or punish, but the most damage he can do without catching you sleeping is GRAB. Otherwise, lots of poking and low poking, with poking punishers, and every once in awhile I gamble with sidestep and whiff punish with 33KB. After playing like this for awhile and I picked up Tekken 6, because I was basically playing the same game.

Uff well said totally true, thats why i wanted an update like Borken Destiny, people understand that arcade release is necesary so new people can see and play the game, dont be selfish, and remember to ask harada for at least the same or at least more support for soul calibur just like they give support to tekken, believe me if they give the same support they give to tekken, namco will see that this game could be as popular as tekken.

 

I actually think that the balance in SC4 is great, aside from the few characters that you don't really need much of a brain to use (Amy, Hilde, Algol w/ bubble shield). In SC4 the lower tier characters (Talim, Rock, Mina etc) do have a fighting chance at winning, we just don't see them winning tournaments because most people aren't dedicated enough or even capable of getting to that level with them (aside from a few like Kura). Believe it or not I've met people who exclusively play low tier characters because they are low tier. And even having experienced it myself by maining Talim in SC3, I can tell you the feeling you get from seeing all your thousands of hours of hard work finally pay off can be so much better than learning a couple of moves and toe stabbling or charge launching someone to death. So part of me actually hopes that SC5's balance will be similar to SC4's, but without the braindead characters so people who aren't really very skilled at the game don't shortcut their way to victory by not having to think as much. Those characters should at least be made JF heavy or have complex inputs so they require some more skill to be good with.

Here's hoping for Namco to find a nice inbetween point with SC5's balance.

Using complex inputs as a means of balance is lazy design. Really, complex inputs should only be used when necessary (like to avoid move overlap) , which 99% of the time, they aren't. People like being able to use their movelists. This idea wouldn't help anything at competitive level, and casuals would be disappointed- so it's a bad idea.

A large part of SC's appeal to casuals is from the move the movelist isn't filled with overly hard moves like most other fighters. I'd even simplify Summon Suffering- and instead make the move more difficult to land.

I'd rather see VF-like balance myself. Would you be disappointed if Talim was a good character?

I don't mind JF's as much, as long as it's not vital- things like a small damage boost, better soul gauge damage, or slightly better frames (like making a move +2 on guard instead of 0, shouldn't make an unsafe move safe though).

 

Yes, in the "right hands" any character could be very good. The problem is, we all can't be the right hand. And so, it is unfair for someone to have to think 10 steps ahead just to match a better character. That's why I hope SCV will do a better job at balancing.

 

I dunno OOF. There is no reason to play Rock or Mina, they have no specific advantages.

It's not a matter of how easy they are to win with, some characters simply don't have enough options or a strong niche. I can deal with a character not being well rounded and having a specific advantage to work with, but some characters are just completely bested in every category by others. EX: Astaroth has every advantage Rock has and a LOT more. I can't think of any tool Rock has that Asta doesn't. I like Rock's SG game with 2B+K, 6B+K, and 6[A+B] but it ends there and Asta has just as useful tools for SG.I feel some of the "bad" characters tho are more niche characters and that's fine. Nightmare isn't well rounded but I feel he has a very strong niche in other areas so he's ok in my book. You will see NM's rise to the top because their character can exploit an area of strength...You won't see Rock and Mina win a major tournament, no matter how dedicated the player. I think RTD is a good example of a guy who can work niche characters that aren't well rounded, but even he has to have his limits.

 

RTD wins the next major with Rock or Mi-Na. yep. then you guys will start re-discussing the tiers again. :)

also: SC5 motherfucking HYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYPE.

 

There is no reason to play Rock or Mina, they have no specific advantages.

Mi-na's soul crush ability is one of the absolute best in the game. It's critical finished more people than the times you've eaten Amy 66A+B on wakeup.

 

I actually think that the balance in SC4 is great, aside from the few characters that you don't really need much of a brain to use (Amy, Hilde, Algol w/ bubble shield). In SC4 the lower tier characters (Talim, Rock, Mina etc) do have a fighting chance at winning, we just don't see them winning tournaments because most people aren't dedicated enough or even capable of getting to that level with them (aside from a few like Kura). Believe it or not I've met people who exclusively play low tier characters because they are low tier. And even having experienced it myself by maining Talim in SC3, I can tell you the feeling you get from seeing all your thousands of hours of hard work finally pay off can be so much better than learning a couple of moves and toe stabbling or charge launching someone to death. So part of me actually hopes that SC5's balance will be similar to SC4's, but without the braindead characters so people who aren't really very skilled at the game don't shortcut their way to victory by not having to think as much. Those characters should at least be made JF heavy or have complex inputs so they require some more skill to be good with.

I disagree, JF heavy characters like Cervy and sets don't take to much effort to at least become good with - take sets for example: yes she is JF heavy and very hard to pick up, but look at the advantage she has over most charcters because of it.
I know characters like Amy let you get away with more, but I find a good trick to just throw when an agi is coming, mix the A & B throws and it does scare them nicely.

 

Im aware mina has a great SG game and one could say that's her niche, but Voldo and Ivy can both do it near as well and offer a LOT more. They are also a lot more safe so they don't have to worry about punishing constantly healing the SG.

I'm also against the notion that characters need to be difficult to control to force the player to be skilled. You can have an easy to control character that can be equally difficult to use in battle based on the tools you give them. Problem with Amy is not her move set being easy to perform, it's just she has too many good tools that it eliminates the need to really think which one to use, it's hard to chose a bad one. Dunno what to do? 6B!

[edit] Damn your reference

I got bettah'