Maxi Post Patch Discussion

Hot Rod Dave

"Saucy saucy minx"
Patch came out March 21st. And here are the changes given to us by the Patch Notes.

Maxi:
  • :6::A: (Lunging Snake ~ Right Outer): decreased damage (18→14).
  • :4::B: (Snake Kiss ~ Left Outer): created distance after hit and block.
  • :A+B: (Serpent's Pleasure): decreased damage (18, 30→12, 26).
  • :6::a-small:+:bA+B+K: (Hydra's Brand ~ Left Inner): decreased damage (30→25).
  • While standing :B+K: (Canyon Carve ~ Behind Lower): decreased damage (38→30).
  • :6::6: or :3::3: or :9::9::A: (Striking Snake): changed to maintain distance when the attack is blocked. Opponent does not face back when hit by the attack. Opponent's freeze shortened after hit. Lowered guard burst damage and increased rise in critical gauge.
  • :2::2: or :8::8::A: (Northern Lights ~ Left Inner): decreased damage (20→16).
  • :6::6::B: (Stampede Wave ~ Left Inner): changed to maintain distance on block. Shortened opponent's freeze when blocking the attack.
  • :4::4::B: (Illusion Serpent ~ Right Outer): increased damage (24→28).
  • :A+G: (Falling Heaven Dragon): decreased damage (55→50).
  • :B+G: (Lynching): decreased damage (52→50).
  • During Right Outer :A::K: (Dragon Bite): decreased damage (14→10).
  • Neutral Guard: opponent does not stun when an attack hits. Longer freeze when guard impact fails.
  • During Left Outer :B::K: (Wing Sobat): decreased damage for first attack(24→18). Increased damage for second attack(30→36). Total damage has not changed.
  • During Left Inner :A: (Backfist Blow): decreased chance of clean hit. Attack property changed from horizontal to vertical attack. During Left Inner :aA+B+K: (Backfist Ceremony) has not been changed.
  • During Left Inner :aA+B+K: (Backfist Ceremony): decreased damage (60→50). Decreased chance of clean hit.
  • During Left Inner :B: (Ravine Carve ~ Left Inner): decreased damage (38→30).
  • During Left Inner :B: (Ravine Carve ~ Left Inner): decreased damage (48→40).
  • During Left Inner :K: (Skewering Hunt): decreased damage (20→16).
  • During Right Cross :A::B: (During Right Cross): decreased damage for first attack(15→12). Increased damage for second attack(25→28). Lengthened freeze for performing the move. Maintain distance on block.
  • :2::3::6::2::3::6::A+B+K: (Rampaging Dragon): decreased chance of clean hit
On paper it doesnt look like much. But how is it translating into gameplay? Are they stepping the hell out of LI A? 4B pushing back so much that you cant punish? How is RC aB working out now? I dont want an extensive tier discussion. More or less our feelings on the changes, and how best to implement what we have been given.




Discuss.......
 

DrakeAldan

Follow the rules!
You will now have to terrorize online with your junk hanging out somewhere else.





I'm just kidding. My condolences.
 

WuHT

Premium Moderator
I think this thread will serve a dual purpose : For maxi players to vent a little bit and also as a support group to help salvage another viable strat to play him.
 

Fhwoarang

[09] Warrior
I think it's not THAT bad.

For instance, if you take the 6A+B BE, LI A BE combo, it does 15 points less, that's like 85, instead 100. That's still something.

At least, wait for the patch to arrive to send Maxi to rest in pieces... I mean, in peace.
 

Uber1337

[10] Knight
yeah. But the other little things also suck.
- 4BB lost 6 damage.
-6A RO AK lost like 10 damage.
- RC A lost damage.
- Some of his stuff is less safe.
- LI A is a vertical
- LI B is nerfed, lol. WTF? why? This move already was bad.
- Basically every component of his wall combo took a damage nerf. I bet wall damage is more like 120 now.
- I think maybe 4B pushes back more on block, which would be horrible.
 

DrakeAldan

Follow the rules!
LI A BE seems to be still horizontal though.

LI A always looked like something you should be able to step. To me, anyway.



It doesn't look like a huuuuge nerf. Most of these numbers are in single digits... I think you guys still have a decent chance... imho...


I bet Krayzie could still kick my ass with this version...
 

Uber1337

[10] Knight
yeah, but thats still stupid. Now you HAVE to use meter to catch step, because LI K and B suck at tracking. It was an unnecessary nerf. It was already -36 or something, why do they need to be able to step it too.
 

soakrates

[09] Warrior
I posted the full list (translated) here: http://8wayrun.com/threads/maxi-general-q-a.6468/page-62#post-439197

More pushback on 4B, 66B and I believe RC A,B.

Not sure what to make of it all yet. One thing to make note of is that backstep was nerfed. You now have to wait a longer period of time to guard after backstepping. This MIGHT mean that Maxi can punish backstep more dependably. With the better pushback on his moves, this could also mean he has an easier time of pushing opponents toward the wall or ring edge, which is where he's really scary. Just speculating though. Too hard to tell right now.
 

Kvasir

[10] Knight
The only thing that bothers me is that those pricks made 66B even less safe. Aside from that these changes look minor, and are countered by back step being easier to catch.
 

Uber1337

[10] Knight
Soakrates:

About 6A, does it stun on CH like, let's say, LI K?
No. only thing that happened to 6A is that it lost 4 damage, and RO A lost 4 damage, so CH combo loses 10 or so damage.

What do you guys think you are gonna start getting out of this backstep nerf? 6A is not really good against backstep because the follow-up usually whiffs. We might be able to land some more CH 22As, but this move is pretty terrible on block. You have to spend meter now to even get a chance to guess your way out of punishment.
 

Aqua_Snake

[09] Warrior
yeah, but thats still stupid. Now you HAVE to use meter to catch step, because LI K and B suck at tracking. It was an unnecessary nerf. It was already -36 or something, why do they need to be able to step it too.
I called this earlier.

Having to burn meter to catch step is dumb. And it's STILL unsafe on block.

So if we don't have meter when going into LI, then opponents can easily step every single time knowing none of his moves will hit.

SO fucking stupid...
 

howiplaythisgame

[09] Warrior
pretty sure maxi's still gonna be viable guys. yeah, he lost damage, but he didn't really lose THAT much damage when it comes right down to it. like i said in the general Q&A thread, i think the things we're really going to feel the most are the WL and RC AB changes, and maybe the 4B change if the pushout on it makes it really useless, which i really can't see them having done; it's probably more to nerf the 4B>LO>PSL 2>LI mixup, so you can't 4B and loop into LI pressure. we'll see if that's right when we get our hands on the patch, but it seems like they REALLY wanted to hit LI hard with this patch (every move's damage nerfed, LI A losing tracking).

LI A losing its tracking is bad, but the only moves it really hurts are 22A, 6A+B BE, and RC AB BE. that sucks, of course, since those moves are awesome, but... 22A is still pretty godlike on NH and CH. if everyone is stepping after they block 22A then we'll probably have enough time to PSL 2>BL and guard or something. it'll be more risky to throw out, which isn't the end of the world. the biggest problem might come from RC AB BE, since RC AB is probably unsafe now and we'll be forced to use the BE to stay safe. that said, RC AB BE gives a lot of adv into LI, so maybe we can figure out some good anti-step answers in that situation.

also, i'm fine with his wall damage being 120, lol. his wall damage before was balls-out crazy. anyway, i think we'll all be fine. maxi still has plenty of tools that didn't get hit at all.
 

Deckard_Cain

[08] Mercenary
Maxi was OP his moves needed to be unsafer, he needs to do less damage, his mix ups need to be even more punishable and not really mix ups. LI a stance that's only mix up was block this +frame high that doesn't track or try to do something and get hit by the -35 move now is either block this +frame high or if I have bar get hit by this -35 move. It's almost as good as that sweet LO mix up, punishable mid or seeable lows. How about that NEW RC mix up, seeable punishable low, super slow seeable interruptable mid, and NOW punishable mid mid string. Hey at least they didn't nerf BL KK again.
 

Deckard_Cain

[08] Mercenary
pretty sure maxi's still gonna be viable guys. yeah, he lost damage, but he didn't really lose THAT much damage when it comes right down to it. like i said in the general Q&A thread, i think the things we're really going to feel the most are the WL and RC AB changes, and maybe the 4B change if the pushout on it makes it really useless, which i really can't see them having done; it's probably more to nerf the 4B>LO>PSL 2>LI mixup, so you can't 4B and loop into LI pressure. we'll see if that's right when we get the hands on the patch, but it seems like they REALLY wanted to hit LI hard with this patch (every move's damage nerfed, LI A losing tracking).

LI A losing its tracking is bad, but the only moves it really hurts are 22A, 6A+B BE, and RC AB BE. that sucks, of course, since those moves are awesome, but... 22A is still pretty godlike on NH and CH. if everyone is stepping after they block 22A then we'll probably have enough time to PSL 2>BL and guard or something. it'll be more risky to throw out, which isn't the end of the world. the biggest problem might come from RC AB BE, since RC AB is probably unsafe now and we'll be forced to use the BE to stay safe. that said, RC AB BE gives a lot of adv into LI, so maybe we can figure out some good anti-step answers in that situation.

also, i'm fine with his wall damage being 120, lol. his wall damage before was balls-out crazy. anyway, i think we'll all be fine. maxi still has plenty of tools that didn't get hit at all.
Like you would know how viable Maxi is....
 

Uber1337

[10] Knight
I think the part that pisses me off the most is that so many other great characters got off so easy. In my opinion, Asta and Mitsu are probably Maxi's worst match ups. Mitsu barely got anything nerfed, and Asta was actually buffed. I feel like Ivy is going to be really annoying for Maxi now too.
 

7r17r1

[08] Mercenary
Against the opponent I train these day I already never use RC A B... delay or not delay , PSL or no PSL, they always JG it easily
So if they only lengthened the freeze on the B, it's fine :P

But if RC A is more than -9 now, that make this move total trash against good players
 

howiplaythisgame

[09] Warrior
i definitely agree that mitsu got off easy. i still don't understand why his 4B is safe on block, lol. i haven't really gone through the ivy changes yet, although they look pretty significant. asta, i dunno, i always felt maxi was at least even against him because of 6A+B.

in other news, i've looked a bit at LI options after 22A just now and found that 22A>LI>PSL 2>BL~G is actually only -22~23 (punishable by maxi 66B from close range but not far range; B+K always punishes), and 22A>LI>PSL 2>BL~B+K (WL) comes out at i20~21 (GIs maxi B+K). that's pretty unsafe, but... if the opponent steps to avoid all LI followups (stepping to maxi's right seems to avoid everything, assuming LI A loses all tracking), he cannot punish you except with a sidestepping 22_88 move that is fast enough, and i'm not sure that one exists. i'd thought that mitsu's 22B would work, but it doesn't.

what this means is that the mixup after a guarded 22A is different now. it used to be that the opp never had any incentive to step or attack; it was generally just best to guess high block (vs LI A) or low block (vs LI K), which meant that maxi could either force that mixup or WL out of it or loop away into whatever he wanted. it was a mixup that was pretty favorable to maxi. the mixup now seems to be that the opp can either step (vs LI A_K) or attack (vs PSL2>BL~G). maxi can also blow meter for the LI A BE to automatically get a high change of winning that mixup, since the opponent has much less incentive to block now. this mixup is definitely not as much in maxi's favor as it used to be, but, honestly, it seems kind of evenly risky both ways.