Nationals: What Went Right/Wrong

[DrakeAldan]

I do see what you mean, though. It would probably be better, I suppose, to have Evo as a more international event, and have Nats be more secluded.

if foreigners would come to Nats, I suppose it could be like the situation they had with Street Fighter IV- just exhibition matches.

(Now that I think about it, having the winner of Nats then take on entire foreign teams for exhibition on his own would be pretty entertaining [maybe not realistic, though?]... I suppose people could get in casuals with said foreigners too, and fulfill their hard competition needs... and then everybody would be happy?)

Looking at that statement, it seems like wistful thinking at this point. :|

 

[KowtowRobinson]

Let's say someone was God Matching everyone before all of the tournies.
Let's say this person could not be beaten by anyone, at any time.
Let's then go along with the '32' man scenario and no one else was allowed in, and of course, our God Match player was excluded for one reason or another.
Would the tourney winner really feel like he was the best there that day?

Well if they held a qualifier with only 4 people advancing, he'd be in Nationals with a chance to win it right? For sure he would, since this hypothetical player was so dominant. And if he didn't win the qualifier, then he was just god matching people in casuals.

It's not like you HAD to fill out the entire 64 man bracket. But you make more money by doing this, money that the winner didn't even see from the look of things, sooooooo..........

 

[DrakeAldan]

Say, now that I think about it, did top regional qualifiers ever get free lodging? Was that ever in the rules? Perhaps I glazed over it at one point, but I remember something about all expenses paid if you took your regional...

I remember going to Houston and vying for that number 1 spot because that free plane ticket and free hotel would be the only way I would manage to ever pay for it.

 

[Jaxel]

Also, allowing others is unnecessary confusion to the system. One solution is to not let anyone but USA play in Nats. That means no Canada or Dominican Republic. The point of this is to determine the overall best USA player anyway. Cut out the guest players, eh?

There is nothing wrong with letting foreigners into the tournament... AS LONG AS THEY QUALIFIED!

It France wants to run a regional, they should be able to.

 

[NinjaCW]

Ok so now that this is over how are you guys gonna make sure there are no problems next year for Nationals (assuming there is one)

 

[MONEYMUFFINS]

There is nothing wrong with letting foreigners into the tournament... AS LONG AS THEY QUALIFIED

Nah uh. Next thing you know, the amount of regional qualifiers for outsiders will be more than the ones in USA. What kind of Nationals is that?

Leave the sex change operations aside, pls.

 

[Jesus]

NinjaCW has "hit the nail on the head". Everyone in here has very good points, pros and cons. The truth of the matter is:whats done is done. Now, what do we take from this event, good and bad, to make the next Nats/Internats a huge success. I can't speak for the community as a whole, but from what I see, in the future, this event would better be served aas an international tournement. The other thing I see that needs to happen, is that planning needs to start now. If the event is completely planned prior to the tournement, a lot of the problems would be fixed.

 

[KingAce]

I didn't go so I don't care either way.
The only real complaints or legitmate complaints are the type of atmosphere these guys had to go through to play their games.

This whole shit about international players, and people playing 20$ to get in, I don't really care about that. People earned those spots in regionals, took the time and resources to go to a regional and qualify...But for one reason or another couldn't show. This whole shit about 30 something people not showing up, makes Nationals look like a joke...We shouldn't have had this tournament right after evo.

Lets move on.

 

[lordiceman826]

Like ok first of all... if the money was supposed to be guaranteed then it didn't matter if all 64 opponents showed up or not, the $4,000 dollar pot was supposed to stand, not edited down too $2,000 then the $2,000 split amongst the top#4, that's pure "D" stealing right there.

In addition to that, there were a few players like Wing-Zero who apparently placed top#3 at a regional but wasn't awarded a ticket, who wanted to attend but didn't think he could since his earned spot didn't consist of the free plane ticket.

NOT letting the 64 or 32 or how ever amount of players that were there, whom EARNED THERE WAY THERE, know you would be drastically changing there chances at getting that $4,000 and the rank as THE TOP SC4 player in the U.S. is a form of deception, underhandedness.

As a tournament organizer myself, I understand you need to make or break even, I also understand often the players attending these tournaments do not care about whether you break even or not BUT how can they if your going to stab them near the kidneys in this manor.

I was not there, my reply is just based upon what I've read and the individuals I know personally whom attended.

The real point people need to address is the fact that the SC community complains so much about NOT getting it's respect BUT... You all do not even show up to your own NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP... WTF!!!!
Which means you all do not respect your own game.
Wasn't the pot at Nationals supposed to be HIGHER than EVO??
Why would you turn down a shot at being crowned the best at your favorite game, to go to another tournament that hasn't even acknowledged your favorite game in what 6 years??

I know you all were hyped about EVO and all that jive BUT even EVO didn't show SC the respect it deserved on it's stream, the Commentators often dissed the game, they lead the charge on the hate for Hilde,Algol and Asty.

You have to WANT to set your own standards, look at Marvel v.s. Capcom 2, how it was THROWN to the waste side this season at EVO, though Marvel alone has CARRIED EVO into the numbers it has reached today, NOt 3rd Strike or CvS2.
I attended EVO in 2003, RTD, TRAN, Clint all attended in 2004, 3D got no love or respect, when RTD & Mick won SC2 there was every excuse in the book as to why that transpired, when Tran defeated the koreans in Tekken 4, it was because the best Koreans didn't come.
Ain't shit changed cause it's 2009 and I heard the very same hatred.

Set your own standards, MAKE MR.WIZARD and his fat cronies WISH they had the best of the best at there tournament, don't go flock and follow them like sheep on your knees begging to be apart of something you could quite possibly make great on your own.
SC4 isn't a great game because it's held at EVO, SC4 is a great game because YOU ALL MAKE IT THAT WAY!!!!

Instead of backing your own favorite game and the players who earned the right to be there, you all made it seem like your game is only viable if it's held at EVO, you just handed over any power you have to make this game or any other Soul Calibur game (if there were any more coming up) on an even keel with Street Fighter, Gear or any other well know, often played Fighting Game.

All EVO does is hype up having the big names, From KO to Diago.
Another point.
If the WEST COAST isn't dominant in said game, they either will not allow it, or downplay it in general, look at Gulity Gear, Look at Marvel for years, both games run by the East Coast for years, look at Tekken and Soul Calibur, East Coast... DOMINANCE.
Wizard hates on KOF he doesn't even like the game and it's been said it will NEVER be held at any EVO.

 

[MONEYMUFFINS]

You all do not even show up to your own NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP... WTF!!!!
Which means you all do not respect your own game.

The SuperBowl is 1 week after the SuperBowl? FUCK YEAH, I'M DOWN.

Wut? Last-minute foreign qualifier? Add that shit in, homie!! LOL, now all we need is elephants ridin' on balloons to complete da circus. Aww ye.

 

[Rigil]

Mostly tl;dr in a color that would make blind children go blind.

If you had been reading this thread you'd know that people had less faith in nationals than Evo because control of nats was taken away from the community over time by NVGA after it was announced and the results are everything you see bitching about.

 

[BatousaiNori]

I went to Houston Regionals and got 5th (3 hour drive there and 3 hours back). Then, right before I go to Dallas, 4th place Red Zo texts me saying I can have his spot. So cool. I go to Dallas anyway, cause I already took the time off, and that's a 5 hour trip there and 5 hours back.

In case the slow minded aren't catching on, 16 hours of driving to MAKE SURE you are qualified, then to actually PAY your way there via plane ticket, then to see other people simply pay $20 shows me NVGA is not qualified to hold Nats ever again.

 

[BatousaiNori]

Thank you from the NVGA

Jaxel/KowTow: You are both 100% wrong. I already addressed Egg, we are cool and now I'll respond because obviously you don't have the whole story. Again, the details of Egg/I/gas money and others are the business of Egg/I/others, so I'll make my point this way:

If you go to a tourney and pay for a plane ticket, a gamer should pick you up and NEVER charge you. That is absurd. Egg was a nice guy and decided to pick up everybody and anybody. However, since the venue was brilliantly 40 minutes away, he had to fill his gas tank a few times.

However, that does NOT give him the right to start charging people. I told him in person to do exactly this: Pick up people you know, and that's it. Pick 5 gamers and stick w/that, but don't CHARGE them for something that should be free. If ANYBODY ever comes to TX, they will NEVER be charged for being driven around. You already paid a couple of hundred at least for a ticket, so it's borderline insulting to even CONSIDER charging for transportation.

If you both feel the gaming community is now a taxi service, people will tell you not to even bother getting them at the airport. I am only 1 person, and my car fits 4 others comfortably. If 6 people need a ride, 2 are shit out of luck. If you want people to come to your city and tourneys, YES you make damn sure you DO drive them where they need to be and be damn glad they are there supporting your city and the community.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Thank you from the NVGA

I'd say it's on the driver. Not everyone can afford to drive back and forth from the airport and to the venue. I too played Mile High Taxi but didn't charge anyone because I felt like doing it to help out. That and I can afford it living next to the highway and all, lol. That AND I felt it would be interesting.

Free? Okay I can maaaaaybe see it if you're friends or family but still both would probably take pity on you and repay the favor somehow.

 

[BatousaiNori]

Thank you from the NVGA

I'd say it's on the driver. Not everyone can afford to drive back and forth from the airport and to the venue. I too played Mile High Taxi but didn't charge anyone because I felt like doing it to help out. That and I can afford it living next to the highway and all, lol. That AND I felt it would be interesting.

Free? Okay I can maaaaaybe see it if you're friends or family but still both would probably take pity on you and repay the favor somehow.

It pretty much comes down to Egg telling me only 2-3 guys stepped up to pick up and drop off 30+ people. That's completely unacceptable for NVGA/DFG, whatever other terrible initial that didn't organize who would do what. I have never been to a city and had to pay somebody to pick me up and drop me off. Being from NY and living in TX, that was a completely new deal. Like I told Egg, I don't feel he meant to do wrong, but just because he spread himself out too thin doesn't mean you try to charge $5-$20 for gas.

Again, if you can't get somebody, just say "sorry, my car is full" and they will have to find ways to get there. Nobody expects a gamer to be superman and pick up 30+ people for free. Egg did a shit load of driving and clearly, this guy didn't get a lot of help and all it did was add to the already frustrating situation at nats (considering most of us paid for taxis at one point in time also)

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Thank you from the NVGA

Things weren't organized enough period (See a theme here?). Perhaps if we had a better estimation of who was coming and at what times, perhaps more could have stepped up. Egg happened to be the one with the most available times but still. I don't know who to put the onus on that one.

 

[BatousaiNori]

Thank you from the NVGA

Things weren't organized enough period (See a theme here?). Perhaps if we had a better estimation of who was coming and at what times, perhaps more could have stepped up. Egg happened to be the one with the most available times but still. I don't know who to put the onus on that one.

I would put it on the guys who bought the plane tickets w/out checking who can get them? I know you/Egg did the best you could, but 2-3 people can't pick up and drop off 30+ people from a venue/airport that is 40 minutes from each other.

 

[350z]

I apologize in advance for the long post, but forgive the oldest fighting gamer in the country, lol. Now onto it:

It’s a shame that things seem to have left something of a sour taste for people, especially after such great things happening in the community recently (the French visiting to play a bunch of us, Jaxel’s fantastic July event, and Evo—et al).

Speaking honestly, I’m sort of ambivalent about the number of players who paid to play without qualifying in Nationals. On the one hand, I can see the thinking that there should have been a complete 64-man tournament. This was supposed to be Nationals—the best players playing one another in a tournament that decided the national champion—a big deal. So, anything less than the best 64 was (to quote Kowtow) a slap in the face to what the tournament was supposed to be about. Not to have a 64 person field, I feel, would have been disrespectful to those who invested their precious time and energy to plan and organize the event; to all of the players who used the hundreds and hundreds of hours to practice, play, and compete for the event; and, more importantly, to the spirit of the community itself.

On the other hand, it is assuredly unfair (yes, a slap in the face) to those who competed in good faith who made the national tournament and especially to those who did not! Hey, I know Sporko drove to Jersey from Philadelphia, paid, and competed in the Jersey qualifier to make the tournament. He then later drove to Chicago, again from Philadelphia, paid, and competed in the Chicago qualifier when he didn’t make it in from the Jersey qualifier. He didn’t make it into the National tournament. If there is anyone who should be incensed that something like that happened, it should be him—and every other person who has a story like that. And like I mentioned earlier, to have something like this happen is disrespectful to those same groups that I already mentioned. I feel badly for those of you who have stories like this one.

The real problem that needs to be addressed is that there were too many players who qualified that did not show up. It made the community look badly (and I’m being polite by saying “badly”).

Now don’t get me wrong, I understand that life can throw a hiccup or two at people, and I’m sure there was more than one qualifier who had illness, personal commitments, or professional obligations (or whatever) pop up at the last minute and couldn’t get out of those things.

But there is no way that happened to thirty players.

There should have been no excuses. None. No matter what personal feelings (or lack thereof) players had for organizers, how much input people had (or not had), the location of the city, Evo, or any other peripheral, tertiary concern, players who qualified should have made every possible attempt to make it to that tournament. None of those things were going to change. Players knew the circumstances surrounding the tournament for quite some time.

But if a player’s principles, morals, feelings—whatever—were so compromised from these things (or from any subsequent change from what was understood at an earlier point) and he decided not to attend, then he should have acted maturely and responsibly by communicating as early as possible that his attendance in the national tournament was not forthcoming, and the organizers (or the player himself) should have made every effort to offer the next highest finisher at his regional to take his place.

Was it difficult for those players who could not make it to contact the organizers—make a post—do something—to let someone know that they couldn’t make it as early as possible? Was it possible to offer spots in a timely fashion to players from the qualifiers who didn’t make it in after the players who did make it bailed? Did that happen? Was there even a contingency for something like this?

For something like Nationals to work, we need to make sure that we communicate as clearly and as often as possible so that things like this don’t happen in the future.

 

[Egg]

Thank you from the NVGA

This is why I wont be diong this for anypne ever again.......Everyone has differenent points of veiw on this. Personally I worked over 40+ hours doing this shit..... Never again.

 

[IgnisPhaseOne]

I'm surprised 8WR didn't have control of Nationals the whole way through; with the way the site and the community evolved over time (and the boost of EVO's inclusion of SC4), it looked like SC4 could make a comeback.

People who played in Regionals should know what they're getting; they are going to be playing SC4 against the best in the nation. (And maybe the world.) If you win a regional, you should be going to Nationals. It should be pretty high on your plans, and barring some sort of illness or family sickness, you should make the extra effort to go.

And no, you shouldn't be able to pay your way into Nationals; that's fucking silly.

SC4 Nationals should have been like EVO, but for SC4. Instead, it sounds like it turned into something without any community input or professionalism. I think the work that's been put into 8WR shows that our community can do a good job of organizing a national tournament.