Official Discussion for SC4 Tier List And Character Guides

Something-Unique said:
Oofmatic:

Hilde #1 (again)
Setsuka #2 (have u seen the changes I posted for her in the SC:BD thread for Setsuka) Jesus christ she is beast.
Dampierre #3 (11B is enough in itself even though its unsafe and that's not even considering the things u were telling me)
Kilik #4 (Still uber strong even with the Asura nerf)

Edit: SC:BD: (God Tier - Hilde) (Top Tier - Setsuka, Dampierre, Kilik). Not sure about Amy because she is the same and the new GI window plus super buffed step game hits her hard. Not to sure about Voldo either now that I think about it with all his nerfs but imagine he is still strong. Yoshimitsu might have moved up a noticeable margin and he might be in top now.

Something like that!
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Replace Dampierre with Kratos and I think you might have something more accrurate.

Here' my quick chart based on my current impression on them based on my experience using them, and fighting them in Vs mode and against the AI:

Top - Setsuka, Amy, Hilde, Kratos, Kilik
Upper Mid - Dampierre, Voldo, Cervantes, Astaroth, Yoshimitsu, Zasalamel, Cassandra, Sophitia
Mid - Ivy, Algol, Taki, Raphael, Nightmare, Siegfried, Lizardman, Mitsurugi, Xianghua
Lower Mid - Rock, Yun-Seong, Maxi, Talim, Tira
Bottom - Seong-Mina

I'm sure I'm way off in some of those, such as Yoshimitsu like you mentioned. But this is just a quick mock up chart to start off with.

Even though Dampierre has powerful combos, (and not just 11B which I don't even view as one of his best moves), he has major flaws that hold him back. Mainly his randomness, lack of range, and the fact that all his good moves can be easily stepped and he doesn't really have any good step killers aside from 4A.

Perhaps a new thread should be made in the BD section for this discussion.
 
Tiamat:

Can't speak for others but I know that belief does not apply to me whatsoever.

I base tier placings on what tools a character has, how practical and applicable are they, and matchups. To me it doesn't matter how much damage a character does if said tool can't be applied in practical terms. Setsuka was one of the characters that had me fooled and now that I use her in and out its obvious that her application is lacking among other flaws.

Hilde in SC4 is another case for me in that sure she can ring u out like no other but in reality what happens is that she doesn't. Not to mention there are a number of stages that help eliminate that ability if u pay attention to ur surroundings. If every stage in this game was The Labyrinth or that raft stage then she would be broke as fuck. That's the reason I don't think she is broke because if she is not ringing me out I have all the time in the world to kill her no matter how safe she is because of her low damage output.

Oofmatic:

Yeah a new thread may be needed. Dampierre is so strong at his basics though even with his randomness from other tools its hard to imagine they impact his game that much. Don't know much about Kratos (honestly) and Amy I totally disagree with mainly because of the new GI window and the insane buff in step game for SC:BD. Setsuka is beast without question in SC:BD not even mentioning her property buffs but she is not better than Hilde (that I do not believe at all). I mean Setsuka is my main in SC:BD now as I have dropped Kilik to a second hence the sig. Rock should also be in mid.

Eyce_Theon said:
I don't think you've taken a look in Damp's SA recently. A+B is better than 11B in almost every case, has more applications, and it's safe.
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Yeah Oofmatic was telling me about it the other day in chat.
 
KowtowRobinson said:
I agree that Algol can get bumped down to upper mid, simply because of bad head to head matchups against broke tier. But Cervy in top tier? On what grounds? That just says to me that people need to up their punishment game really badly. I'm by no means a great player, but I get away with so much shit going unpunished it's ridiculous at this point.
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because determining a characters overall strength soley based on his safety is a poor way to do things.

several top tier characters throughout fighting game history have been unsafe. you have to look at the character's entire package when determining how strong he is, not just 1 flaw he might have. Him being unsafe just means you have to play a little smarter and make better decisions. fighting games are about reading your opponent and out thinking them anyway right?

The reward on most of his moves outway the risk. In fact, the reward on most of his shit is so good that if it were any safer, he would be rediculous. imagine if he could just spam things like aB, 3B, 2A+B, 66B, 1K, WSA, iGDR? The reward he gets on those moves justifies the lack of safety on them.
 
JOP:

That statement is 100% true but could u really place him in the same league as the top 4.

Oofmatic:

To coincide with what I responded to Tiamat with in regards to Hilde and to provide better info to continue my reasoning for her being broke in SC:BD I provide u with this info.

My reasoning for her being God Tier is a cross reference to those exact statements. There is no longer situational Ring outs to be concerned about. Instead u have to worry about ridiculous damage from tools that are spammable and safe at all times. You can't be as risky in stepping because one C2A or C3A charge will have u questioning even pressing her.

How will u pressure Hilde? What will be the one flaw u can actually expose without being at a higher risk of eating a shit load of damage? In a sense u can say the damage from SC doom combo is apparent all over the place minus the ring out capabilities which in SC4 u shouldn't be getting hit by that much if at all anyway if ur a smart competitor. She is totally safe with plus frames to boot and there is no reason as a Hilde player in SC:BD to be scared of turtling because her keepout is monstrous. Seriously she can dictate the match from start to finish at all times. Every advancement in design to the game also benefits her more than anyone else (that's even considering Dampierre's possibly better post GI game).
 
yes i would.


im a little surprised to see people putting algol in upper mid tier. top tier all the way
 
Algol without the bubble shield is easily mid or upper mid. That's how I play him...add in the bubble shield he's easily top.
 
urgh don't say "algol without the bubble shield." you might as well say "hilde without charges" or "amy without 2B+K"
 
Omega can't bump Zass up there, please, that man turtle's stupid hard to make the character get up there. His lower mid...that's set in stone.

Hilde without charges is stupid, Algol without bubbles is just straight up manly son.
Manliest fight on video out there.
 
I pretty much agree with SU's placement of the characters. I don't believe that Algol is top tier, but he looks like it to the untrained eye.
 
Nukleurfire said:
lol Omega bumped Zas up two tiers.
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Tiers arent based on who wins with characters in tournies, but a character being played at maximum potential. Imo anyway. Thats why u see so many people doubting Setsuka, cause she's never at anything and she never wins, let alone places. You see Talim skyrocketing up to Upper-mid or Top just cause Kura got second with her? No, she's always been lower-mid cause the bottom tier characters have LITERALLY NOTHING, at least the bitch can get away with something. And how did he get bumped up two tiers when he was never bottom to begin with?
 
He was bottom or low on a lot of people's lists. I still think he is the 5th worst character or so
 
Nukleurfire said:
lol Omega bumped Zas up two tiers.
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Omega did nothing about Zazalamel... Omega showed his insane strength as player: his incredible defense, outstanding reflexes and his high knowledge about this game... Zazalamel is low mid tier; I tested myself and other stronger warriors in my country and the results were the same... Only Omega can use Zazalamel and Win, but I will complete the sentence: Omega its incredible with any character in the game (exclude Rock).

We tested Zazalamel in all possible ways and the results were:
• 8/10 RO power
• 5/10 damage
• 7/10 speed
• 5/5 safe moves
• 9/10 fun
• 10/10 coolness

-Stryker-

PD: These results are real.
 
This is actually an incredibly accurate tier list, believe me I've seen one so horrible that the top tier was comprised of Vader, Lizardman, Astaroth, and Sophitia. But this list is great, as for the character guides, looks like some work has yet to be done haha.
 
Mitsurugi description:
Mitsurugi is a samurai, with a big katana and stylish hair. Even a king of hell cannot stand against his blade! He is also a very unfair character, b/c he has that move, that starts with a low kick. When facing a threat of being cut with a katana most people see the low kick and think that's no big deal, but than BAM he hits them with a sword from above! That kind of deceptfulness lead people to whine a lot on forums about how dishonorable and lame Mitsurugi is.
 
Belial said:
Mitsurugi description:
Mitsurugi is a samurai, with a big katana and stylish hair. Even a king of hell cannot stand against his blade! He is also a very unfair character, b/c he has that move, that starts with a low kick. When facing a threat of being cut with a katana most people see the low kick and think that's no big deal, but than BAM he hits them with a sword from above! That kind of deceptfulness lead people to whine a lot on forums about how dishonorable and lame Mitsurugi is.
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Seriously? Even a king of hell can't stand against his blade? What the hell is that? Broke.
 
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