Official Discussion for SC4 Tier List And Character Guides

Nofacekill3r said:
Oh, and uhh about Cervy's post GI game:


Fast option: 3B - solid damage and oki

Slow option: FC A+BBB - the thing with this is, it does a ton of damage, amazing oki, AND if they do not immediately re-GI and instead they block you get +13 (somewhat mitigated by the pushback but still great)




BROKE
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wow big word noface but then again you have ivy with the possibility of the best grab game in the game considering from coil you have a 50/50 of 80 or 100 dmg grabs but you have to be jesus to pull those both off consistently from coil :)
 
the best I could do in training mode to get an instant command throw from standing in CL stance still had a very, very slight twich in her legs before the throw came out

She didn't duck or step or anything like that, but I'm sure if somebody was paying enough attention they could notice it.


It's alot easier to buffer from blockstun or GI or whatever than it is to try and get an instant unseeable command throw from CL.

I actually think I hurt my thumbs doing it, and u need a really worn out dpad that u can kinda cheese some of the directions on.
 
Nofacekill3r said:
Oh, and uhh about Cervy's post GI game:


Fast option: 3B - solid damage and oki

Slow option: FC A+BBB - the thing with this is, it does a ton of damage, amazing oki, AND if they do not immediately re-GI and instead they block you get +13 (somewhat mitigated by the pushback but still great)

BROKE
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yea or you could just grab instead of dicking around. i've said this before, but yall really overstate how good FCA+BB.. is. +13 doesn't mean much since you have to run up to the opponent afterwards which takes like what...15 frames? unless you wanna do a move immediately after, like a 44K or whatever, but the difference is easily seeable. it's only good for free damage near a wall.

and I thought u were keepin the Ivy thing a secret....the NoFace grab technique
 
you actually dont have to dash in you have a shit load of options and dashing in is only one of them and you could just use it to control the spaceing and positions you dont have to get all aggresive after it.
 
Just wondering, what specifically does Vader have over Siegfried and Nightmare? Seeing him this high puts a huge blip on my radar.
 
Uh nightmare and siegfried arent as strong offline so im guessing thats where your drawing your idea there. And vader has alot of good stuff that most dont apply aside from OOF.
 
SLiK said:
Just wondering, what specifically does Vader have over Siegfried and Nightmare? Seeing him this high puts a huge blip on my radar.
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His auto gi's, quick side step, his ring out game is actually better than nightmare's. Aside from that I think Vader is in the same rank as Sieg and Nightmare.
 
babalook said:
Uh nightmare and siegfried arent as strong offline so im guessing thats where your drawing your idea there. And vader has alot of good stuff that most dont apply aside from OOF.
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Oh no, I didn't mean to compare on and offline Siegfried and Nightmare.

Anyway, thanks you two. Guess I'll head over to that video section to see the buzz behind Mr. James Earl Jones.
 
I obviously agree with Voldo being top tier. But Ivy has a nasty long range that deals filthy damage! Her speed is incrediable and for all of her stances (whip, sword and nuetral) she knows at the least, 3 combos per one. I dont see anything wrong with the character, she's on my personal top tier list :)
 
My tier list:
God Tier: Hilde, Algol, Amy
Upper Mid Tier: Setsuka, Voldo, Ivy, Yoshimitsu, Darth Vader, Taki, Mitsurugi, Cervantes, Cassandra, Kilik
Mid Tier: Raphael, The Apprentice, Siegfried, Tira, Seong Mina, Rock, Astaroth, Xianghua, Sophitia, Lizardman, Nightmare
Lower Mid Tier: Yun Seong, Maxi
Bottom Tier: Talim, Yoda

I hope most of you agree.
 
nightmare high and lizard lower -_________- you have to be kidding......

Uh yes mina mid tier you definitely are kidding u.u
 
Paranormal_Oreo said:
My tier list:
God Tier: Hilde, Algol, Amy
Upper Mid Tier: Setsuka, Voldo, Ivy, Nightmare, Yoshimitsu, Darth Vader, Mitsurugi, Cervantes, Cassandra, Kilik
Mid Tier: Raphael, The Apprentice, Siegfried, Tira, Seong Mina, Rock, Astaroth, Taki, Xianghua, Sophitia
Lower Mid Tier: Yun Seong, Maxi, Lizardman
Bottom Tier: Talim, Yoda

I hope most of you agree.
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Yeah...hellllllllll no.
 
JOP said:
because determining a characters overall strength soley based on his safety is a poor way to do things.

several top tier characters throughout fighting game history have been unsafe. you have to look at the character's entire package when determining how strong he is, not just 1 flaw he might have. Him being unsafe just means you have to play a little smarter and make better decisions. fighting games are about reading your opponent and out thinking them anyway right?

The reward on most of his moves outway the risk. In fact, the reward on most of his shit is so good that if it were any safer, he would be rediculous. imagine if he could just spam things like aB, 3B, 2A+B, 66B, 1K, WSA, iGDR? The reward he gets on those moves justifies the lack of safety on them.
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Yes Cervy is indeed a character with a lot of high risk/reward moves but compare to the considered top tier characters like Amy, she has a lot of good safe moves that are rewarding and I'm assuming that most of the top tier characters are like that. For them to have a lot of safe moves, they have more options than the pirate. The only edge the pirate has I could think of is damage. Not to mention that Cervy has a very weak SG game compare to those characters.
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babalook said:
I think the answer to any akward or unsafe situation can be overcome with cervys FC A+BBBBBBBB the move is so amazeing. If you think of any situation where you can force a 50/50 with cervy on a standing opponent at advantage but your unsafe(always) if they guess right then just do the GB and if they sit and block ur at +13 and if not they eat 70ish dmg and a nice little mixup again :) I think this is definetly in his top 5 best moves. Such a underrated move do to how uncomfortable it is to use alot.
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It sounds really good from a technical standpoint but against high level play I'm not really sure if you can get wins with just abusing FC A+B GC as your main game. I mean I've tried that a couple of times offline and it doesn't seem to be that effective.

I tried following your advice since it wouldn't hurt trying but it doesn't seem to be very effective. That's why I wish you would attend to high-level offline scenes to demonstrate how effective your strat is.
 
sometimes i dick around with fcA+BBBBBB online since i have a turbo controller. it works fairly well...ONLINE. I have also tried dicking around with it against folks offline, and it's trash, causes me to lose rounds. However, I knew that before I started.

And Amy ain't safe. She's generally just as unsafe as Cervy, just harder to punish with most characters. U gotta compare Cervy to folks like Cass and Ivy instead.
 
sWoRD_LoRD said:
And Amy ain't safe. U gotta compare Cervy to folks like Cass and Ivy instead.
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I know some of Amy's moves ain't safe but I'm talking her good options such as her 3B, 33_99B, 3A, 6BB, 2A+B etc. I dunno what other moves she has but hell they are damn good.
 
2A+B ain't safe, and it's not all that good an option either. you prolly mean 2B+K, which is unsafe to step and block. 33B is unsafe to step, 6BB is unsafe to tech crouch, and because of the nature of the character (mainly her effective range, these two moves aren't that difficult to anticipate). 3B is unsafe too.
 
That way every move in the game is "unsafe" in some way, even Hilde's C3A for example - "unsafe to super TC" lol
 
Holy shit we just got a new definition on unsafeness, the history books of Soul Calibur have to be rewritten.

Unblockables are unsafe to Perfect Guard Impacts. Sword is right.
 
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