SC5 'Ivy' Story/Possibilities/Speculation

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kerrod123

[10] Knight
he could be but look at it like, well weve been complaining about her been simplified so much and they probably knew that was gonna happen before they showed us her,so to make up for her losses since ivy is meant to be good i think there will be things that we dont know about yet and we might not until release unless someone finds out for us

id like ivy to be safer but to make her good enough now i dont think id be keen on her been like xianghua or amy or something with real good frames,i just dont think it goes right,ivy gets her strength elsewhere,i think her frames will be a lot better but there will be something else
especially since her damage has been lowered and her stuns have been made rubbish to be honest
 

Nofacekill3r

[11] Champion
Keep in mind this is also the same team that gave us SC3 and SC4s amazing balance, so don't plan on the game being in a good state until the community gives feedback and the first patch hits.
 

kerrod123

[10] Knight
well to be honest we all really want the game but i feel that the game is having to be rushed quite a bit,if they wanted to put our things in they probably woudnt have time to put it in anyway
hopefully when patching hits all the feedback will make them sort things out for the characters if there are things wrong and the patching will be big enough to sort things out
i feel they should have been trying to concentrate on the characters a lot more, it seems like that for now anyway
 

Kaz

[09] Warrior
Hopefully the Patching last for more then the first year of the game and takes care of serious issues like Big glitches. They should take their time, as bad as i want this game i would prefer them to really get it together and then realese it insted of releasing it with missing features and bad balance or characters tools not working properly.
 

Kaz

[09] Warrior
Good luck Malek and Scud try to take home some wins for the pre-release SC5 Ivy. Though im sure if this a tournament type of event, the Ivy hate will come in droves if one of you win and she will probably be nerfed beyond beliefe come the release of the game, so maybe take it easy and make it look convingng lol. Enjoy the demo.
 

Large_Yeti

[09] Warrior
I'm confused what this alledged "trend" is? Ivy is "easier" to play the less clothes she wears? XD
I thought SC5 Ivy is supposed to be simpler than previous Ivy's, so doesn't that invalidate your graph?
 

sillycatsteven

[09] Warrior
good point.... i forgot i changed my y-axie....

i'll change it

EDIT:
graph changed.

and it does seem that way. more clothes= easier to learn. less clothes = harder to learn
 

Violent Vodka

Pick Your Poison
I think instead of making her SS grab a BE move, they should let us use the BE to lengthen it a little, kinda like Astaroth's BE grabs. Even if it's just a short animation of her ripping the whip links out of their body or something..
 

malek

[10] Knight
I'll only talk about Ivy here, not about the general gameplay. I'll do it later.

Ivy only has 1 stance, Sword. Her gameplay is basically SC1 gameplay.
Most moves exist in 2 diffferent versions, depending if you hold the button or not.
3A is different from 3[A], just like 6B is different from 6[ B ], and so on and so on.

Compare to SC2, SC3 and SC4 Ivy, here gameplay is very simple.
Zwei or Hilde may be technical character, but not Ivy anymore.
Appart from CS and 5JF all moves are really easy to use.

In the TGS build (the one French players could play this week end) she is probably the best character in the game, seconded by Astaroth.
The main reason are incredible damage, safeness and 2 or 3 broken moves.

The rest of this report is based on what Scud and I test and found. We may miss many things.

New move / Old move
Properties

AA_[A] / CL AA_A[A]
No AT even on CH on this move now.
It looks like it is the CL version of AA.

BB_ [ B ]/ SW BB_?
BB is Sword BB. [ B ] is not WP BB, nor CL BB nor CL 1B B+K.
It's a new move which is quite slow with a delay between both B.
Usefull right now because no one knows it but, I don't know it'll be usable as CL 1B B+K was or even as CL BB was...

2A is CL/SW 2A. 2K is 2K. 2B is CL 2B.

9B / Sw 9B_9gB
No more G something. When you hold G, you cannot jump or use a button.
No stun on CH. No longer usefull in my opinion.

22K_1K / SW 22K_2A+K
Still TC, but no more superTC. Still unsafe. Kills step.
Only combo after sweep is 214B or 9B. I also tried 7B+K but it is not a combo.

2A+B / Sw 3B
KB on NH. Bounce on CH. Very nice damage.
It will probably be one of her main mid, again.

kB / SW 214K
A lot less damage, still a good wake up game. Kill ground turtler, even rolls.
Very similar to SC4 on CH. CH kB kB is combo. Nice to finish wall combo.

214 A / WP 214 A
4/5 life...........
Still TC, still unblockable, still cancellable. Broken.
90 damage would be more than enough for such a move, 170 is... well... a little too much.
For some reason, this is the first move that Scud tried.... He didn't start with AA or BB, no no no. He decided to start with unblockable at 170 damage ! This was funny.

7_8_9 B+K / WP 1_2_3 B+K
All of them seems pretty useless now. Couldn't find a way to launch with any of theese moves, but one:
On CH, on a neutral opponent the move launch. That's the only way it works.
Well thinking of it, I didn't tried BraveEdge on this move... So maybe there is something out of BraveEdge.
I couldn't manage to find a way to RO cannon.

214B / CL 214B
Broken. Quite safe !!! Mitsurugi can punish only with 6B8, no AA. Maxi coudn't punish at all.
I think it's between -13 and -15 and there is a nice pushback.
It's still avoid many things. It's extremely powerfull now because of the safeness.

4A+B B / WP 4A+B B
This is ASURA. It autoGi EVERY SINGLE move of the game but Throws/UB/CE.
Highly spammable, safe, totally broken.
How ever there is one problem, the second hit is never garanted.
Even on CH, even on autoGi it's will never be garanted except if 4A+B GuardCrush, then B is garanted on CH.

6B_6[ B ]2_8 / CL 6B _ Wp 6B+K2_8
GuardCrush in 7 or 8... Still it's not so broken now. It can be killed by step, 8wr or quick step. The 2_8 part is quite uneffective to kill step. 6B alone can maybe be use as punishment... I don't really used 6B a lot.
Both hit can be JustGuard, but once the first hit is guarded the second part cannot be JG.

FC 1B_FC 1[ B ]B / SW WR B _ WP WR BB
Broken. Pretty safe. Natsu can AA, and maybe some character AA too but that's still safe against many character.
FC 1B G 6B8 is a combo on NH for approx 80 damage. FC 1B G 9A+B is a combo on NH for approx 90 damage.
FC 1B G 6B8 is a combo on NH for approx 50 damage. FC 1B G 9A+B is a combo on NH for approx 60 damage.
FC 1B launch only at close range. FC 1[ B ] launch at any range. FC 1[ B ] has a nice push back, but I don't know how safe/unsafe it is.

6K_6KB_6KBK / SW 1K_1KB_1KBK
Same move with a lot less range.

6B8_6B8K / SW 6B8_6B8K
Same as SC4. 6B8K is the main punishment of Ivy. 6B8 is the main combo finisher of you wanna pressure on wake up. 9A+B is better othave some distance between you and your opponent, and does more damage too.

9A+BB_9A+B[ B ] / CL 236BB_?
New move, which is an extension of the CL 236BB. Unsafe but incredible pushback, no more [4] or [6] during the move. Don't know why to use the version not charged cause the new moves looks better on any points...

3A_3[A] / SW 3A _ WP 3A
I didn't check theese moves long enough. 3A is just 3A? 3[A] don't stun on CH. Just like 9B it's probably going to be a move of the past without real usefull use.

Ring's move : WR A _ WR [A] / SW WR A _ WP WR A
It's still in, no change.

1A+B / SW 2A+B
Stun on NH. kB garanted combo. unsafe, nothing new here.

4B is SW 4B. 4K is still here. 9K is still here. 9A is still here. 3B is CL 3B but do not launch high enough to combo except on CH.

Link's move : 3K_3[K] / SW 3K_SC2SC3 3[K]
It's back !
Scud tried this move more than me, so this should be an indication that the move is good.
3[K] stun on NH as always. kB as combo.

SS is a BraveEdge move and require 50% SoulGauge.
The motion is now : A+G A+B+K
Waoooh ! So difficult ! Approx 80 damage.
Break it in A.

CS is 28284666 B+G
Didn't manage to JF CS, but I'm very bad with this new motion.
It can be buffered (in 4A+B for example).
80 damage approx.
Starting animation looks like SC4 SS.
No more Starting animation like SC4 CS....
Break it in B.

66B_66B BraveEdge / CL 33B_?
The BraveEdge move is a launcher. 6B8 or 9A+B as a combo.

1B BraveEdge / SW 6[ B ]
This is SC4 SW6B. Stun on NH, probably +frame on Block. Nice to buffer CS.
Shakable stun, nothing garanted.

1A / WP 1A
The second hit only appears on CH.

WR B+K / WR A+B
Only 3 hit now, don't know the properties at all.

66[A] / CL 66A CL33A
66A alone is CL 66A. No change. 66[A] is a tricky move than combine CL 33A right after CL 66A. It's JGable.

66K is CL 66K. WR K is WR K. WR B is CL WR B but do not KD.

6[A] is a new move. AT on CH just like the old A[A]. High with nice range, and fully stepper killer. 6A or 6AK is the same as SC4 coiled 6AK.

WR A+B A / CL WR AA
Nothing new here.

A+B A / CL A+B A
This is probably the only moves of Ivy who has to be fix up.
Right now, for some reason the last hit NEVER hit, never. I spend more than 10 minutes with Saitoh to check and there should be a bug or something cause the last hit always whiff, mid screen, near wall, near RO, neutral, counter, tried braveedge and many other thing like special angle but it just never worked...

B+K / WP 66A+B
With A+B not working, the move is quite unusable.
I don't know how to use it out of a combo.

44A / WP 22A
Nothing new.

11A / WP 11A
Nothing new.

4A_4[A] / SW 4A_WP4A
Nothing new.

44B+K / WP 44A+B
Once the sword is on ground:
G return neutral, no hit
wait for UB
B+K again for a mid launcher

3A+B / SC1 3B+K
Same thing.

22A / SC2 33A
Stun on CH, nothing special on NH.
Didn't test enough to know what is the best combo after CH 22A.

44A+B / SW A+B
The UB is still in. No bug this time, it still strong but not broken anymore.

6A+B / SE A+B
UB that may have some use because she backdash a little during the move.

4B+K / CL 4A+B
This UB is still there... Still useless. You can still go FC with it.
If you like to go FC with fire, it's possible.

Throws are all the same. No more mind game after right throw however, there is no time enough to jump over the opponent now.

And finally,
22B_22[ B ] + / SW 22B _ WP 33B
22B is not very interresting cause it not launch high enough to combo.
22[ B ] alone do not launch high enough either, but:
22[ B ] BBB
or
22[ B ] :4B:6B:4B:6B:4B
are both garanted combo.
I was only able to 5JF twice in 2 days and both were blocked so I don't know much about damage, safeness and so on. The last hit of 5JF is gard crush, that's all I know.

But that's not finish, 22[ B ] BraveEdge / WP 3B followed by the second hit of SC4 SE A236A
Ivy end FC backturn after it. WR B+K also worked BT, but SC4 BT A+B looks like to have dispeared. The move looks like to be +frame.

And this is all I can remember so far. For more questions, or move that I forget to talk about, ask and I'll answer.

some SC4 move than I haven't found:
SW FC3B
CL 1A
SW 66K
All stance 6K
SW 66B
WP 6B

I found only 4 braveedge so far:
1B BE
22[ B ] BE
66B BE
A+G BE
Saitoh found 5 BE with Astaroth, so there is maybe more moves that I haven't discovered.

About Ivy's CE, I'm not sure that it's possible to duck it on reaction. Don't know the frame, but if you can duck throws on reaction then maybe you can duck CE too. Ritgh now, Both Astaroth and Ivy's CE looks mind game to me, and not duckable on reaction.

GI to CE is Garanted. At 125% SoulGauge, any GuardImpact = CE.
Same with Astaroth, there is no way to evade it.

6[ B ]2_8 gard crush fast. Just like many moves. But Ivy is not the CF monster that she is in SC4. Some other characters are more dedicated to GuardCrush, namely Siegfried and Maxi.

Ivy has still her broken back dash. Most character moves are awesome on the map, but Ivy's one are still better. She can avoid Astaroth throw at disadvantage with her back dash.

A+G throw RO. FC 1B RO. 9K RO. 4K RO. 9A+B B RO. And many others RO too like most UBs.

Ivy only has 4 lows so far: 1K_22K, 2K, 1A, 1A+B.

I don't know enough about the game and mechanics to be able to speack about tactics but I rather can see 2 options with SoulGauge:
1. Build meter far range and then go with mix up SS/FC1B
2. Build meter far range and wait for opponent to attack to GI CE.

If any of you guy's plays the TGS build, you should just spam 4A+B/214B at disadvantage if you just wanna win. 2A+B/A+G BE should be more than enough to attack.
 

kerrod123

[10] Knight
wow thanks a lot malek youve really found out some good stuff there
so in a nutshell ivy is actually really strong now like daishi said,even though her damge,stuns and some moves been nerfed,because she is pretty safe with her moves now?
it just really doesnt seem like she is strong though

some of her moves are broken though but i didnt realise how many until you listed them,no doubt these will be fixed but they might end up nerfing them too much,i hope not

the new grab input seems really tricky i dont like it,i know i wasnt playing the game but just trying it on my controller is tellling me it will be tough awkward and wierd input for it

her WP 214A is way too much damage even though it can be ducked under,its totally unfair plus sometimes it does catch you because you have to stay ducking for quite awhile you sometimes get up just little too soon and bam!or if you get caught with this while you were doing a move that misses then its going to knock off about 2 thirds of your health or if not a bit more!

SW 9B and 3[A] are just going to be useless now or especially SW 9B theres just not going to be any point to it now,they should bring back the stuns on CH theyve already nerfed some of her stuns so there terrible,they shoudnt just have totally taken these away

im also upset to find WP 1_2_3 not be very useful,for gods sake!it better launch on CH and be able to repeat it once or twice to bring the opponent close to you for a combo,i bet theyve made it so you cant do that now

glad to see her 3[K] come back as a stun again,i liked it
 

Ring

Lay still now
Thanks for the info, I'm surprised to hear that she really is the best in the current build, she doesn't look like that at all =/her damage looks really weak compared to Mitsu or Asta. Still waiting for 5HIT JF info :)
 

Davo87

[09] Warrior
Thanks for the update Malek. Some moves being safer than it looks is an eyeopener. She does high dmg from moves we hardly use at all from past SC games... >.>

So is she more of a hybrid of poke and trap character now?

214 A / WP 214 A
4/5 life...........
Still TC, still unblockable, still cancellable. Broken.
90 damage would be more than enough for such a move, 170 is... well... a little too much.
For some reason, this is the first move that Scud tried.... He didn't start with AA or BB, no no no. He decided to start with unblockable at 170 damage ! This was funny.
LMAO. Its more like 2/3 of life. I saw that stream. I was thinking, so you are gonna spam it? Really?
 

Nofacekill3r

[11] Champion
I don't understand why you think she is so good, Malek. Is it the new 214B and 4A+B? Other than that I don't see anything really good about what you said.

Can you please elaborate on why you think she's so good in SC5?
 

Davo87

[09] Warrior
Safety and unblockables: SE A+B, 214A_aG, SS and CE. That and medicre pokes are killing ppl. (I have not seen one CS in any video aside from Daishi). Its just that, it feels braindead with the variety she has atm....Safety being broken sounds overrated.

I see 6[ B ]'s horizontal followup is indeed weaker. The range of the arc is shorter and smaller.

Malek.....
 

malek

[10] Knight
Edited.

I don't speack about the stream. People were looking for there moves, searching for things and so on.
There is nothing to conclude out of the vids of the stream.

About the other characters.

Mitsu SC V = 1 hit character.
No real combo out of 2K BE BE CE, but this need 200% soul gauge.
Every single move he does is porwerfull, but he cannot apply pressure game.
And his only evade move 4B is nothing compare to Ivy's 4A+B and 214B.
Mitsurugi looks like to be a very strong charactr, but very limited.

Astaroth looks strong cause Saitoh is the one maining him.
He found very quickly all BE and then elaborate mix up and combo.
But Astaroth need a lot of SoulGauge to deal as much damage as he did in SC4.
And Ivy don't need anything to stay out of his grab range.
Astaroth really is strong, and fear no other characters but Ivy for now.

Maxi cannot pressure Ivy. 4A+B and 214B are too overpowered right now.
From this point his all game plan fall against Ivy.

Patou and Pyrha lacks lows like Ivy.
But they don't have easy SS, nor auto evade (Pyrha autoGi still remain strong).

Zwei, I have no idea. Same goes for Natsu. And Voldo.

Tira is just Tira. She does a lot more damage than SC 4 but looks pretty much the same.

Siegfried is damn strong. He has almost everything, but like many other depend a lot of SoulGauge to be able to use his main usefull moves. He really have tools for any situation, and don't need his CE at all so can use meter for his strong BE.

Hilde is a little hard to judge by now, cause as the button mapping is not possible on the TGS release, no one was able to play her at best. I prefer not to judge her from what I've seen so far.

So, basically all characters looks strong right now.
But Ivy really has HIGH damage out of SAFE move + Broken Auto Evade + Easy SS + usable UB
I only played the game 2 days, so that's not enough to affirm she is the best, but she's definately not weak at all.

From what I learned, if I had to play now i would:
-Use FC1B and 2A+B as my only mid moves and end combo with 9A+B [ B ].
-Build meter with 6 [ B ] and 6 [ A ] and back dash.
-Spam 214B and 4A+B anytime I'm at disadvantage.
-GI CE any move that I can react to.
-SS anytime I can.
-Randomly use 214A, cancel if nothing or let it go if there is a chance that it hits.
 

Kaz

[09] Warrior
So she sounds good, is she any fun to play as now Malek? Or do you feel like with a month or 2 we will all be bored. Thats kind what i feel like we might have with one stance and the lack of moves.
 

kerrod123

[10] Knight
just one thing malek im not sure whether you mentioned it but we did see a version of it at some point
what about SC4 SE A236A? i think we saw it once and she just seemed to grab you straight away like the second part of the move,it just seemed to come straight out instead of the fire coming out with the sword before the grab
so have you looked at that move at all?or know anything about it?

i also second what kaz said,if shes boring to play as im not going to be all that keen even though it is ivy and i love her so waht did you think of her?

i hope im wrong but it seems we may learn our characters a lot quicker than we did with SC4 and it wont last as long competetively,i hope each character lasts awhile to get the hang of,because this is what i feel them simplifying things could do
 

Kaz

[09] Warrior
I Still think it will be fine competively, I was more so thinking that if this is everything (which i could be very wrong about) we might figure her out pretty quick. Not nessicarly a bad thing but usally it takes longer.

Edit: Then again most ppl have 2-3 character so there more time to understand your other character better.
 
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