SCV Yoshimitsu Q&A and General Discussion
- Thread starter HajimeOwari
- Start date
PANDEMlC
[08] Mercenary
Can someone explain some of this Yoshi terminology to me? No idea what half of it means.
iMCF, RCC, DNK, CH, FLE and these bB 9A+Bg , these types of things. Any tips on a:B+K would be helpful too. Is there a video of all his combos somewhere? No clue what I'm going for with half of the combos listed in the yoshi combo thread.
iMCF, RCC, DNK, CH, FLE and these bB 9A+Bg , these types of things. Any tips on a:B+K would be helpful too. Is there a video of all his combos somewhere? No clue what I'm going for with half of the combos listed in the yoshi combo thread.
Gabedamien
I Want To Be Happy
D’OH!
You’re talking about his bA (slide B to A fast) attack.
No he doesn’t. He’s still good. Just not as good.
iMCF = instant Manji Carve Fist = 2a:B (fast slide A to B while holding down).
RCC = rising crouch cancel = tapping forward after a move that tech crouches in order to cancel the crouch and be instantly ready to do another standing move.
DNK = doorknocker = 6B+K,B,B,B.
CH = counter-hit (i.e., you hit while they are performing an attack).
FLE = flea stance = sitting on top of his swords, can be entered into via B+K or 2(A+B).
- Moderator
- #85
mkl
[00] Signia's Cheerleader
a:B+K doesn't even ring out anymore really so it was nerfed a lot in the respect. It also lost some usefulness by how difficult it is to perform. I can get it about 99% of the time now and all I really use it for is to perform tech traps after it when I finish with it from launch.
RedDjinn
Dat Hillbilly
Check the video I made out... its around here somewhere... Id link it but im at work
DrDogg
[09] Warrior
Please define what's good about this Yoshi because a lot of you keep saying he's solid and I'm just not seeing it.
Here's my take:
+ 1K safe
+ 4KB safe
+ 3B safer
+ A+K buffed
+/- MED buffed, but all attacks and the warp are easily evaded/punished.
+/- 22K stuns on normal hit, but has a bad hit box.
- iMCF slower, shorter range and doesn't tech crouch as fast
- Combos from iMCF less damaging
- Lost two stances
- Tekken moves are random
- Lost most of his SC4 frame traps and frame adv.
- Main whiff punisher was nerfed (8WR A+B)
- Earslicer nerfed and made more difficult to execute
- 9K is unsafe
- 3A and 3AB are unsafe
- 66K is -10 now.
From my viewpoint, he's just barely mid-tier and could easily drop once people really start abusing Just Guard and simply knowing how to defend against Yoshi properly.
Compare Yoshi to any of Sophitia's kids and he doesn't even come close in terms of tools and just options in general.
Gabedamien
I Want To Be Happy
OK fine he’s been maimed and lamed. So don’t play him.
Perhaps “good” was an overstatement. I still find him fun, and I don’t think he “sucks... bad.” That’s all I meant.
I am, however, auditioning for a new SCV main, because yes, I think there is greater potential in some of the other characters as things stand. SCIV Yoshi was fun to me partly because of his complexity and variety of moves / meta-games. SCV Yoshi feels... a lot simpler.
But hey, it could be worse. My first SCIV character was Mitsurugi, but I can’t even pretend to enjoy SCV Mitsu.
- Thread starter
- #89
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
Still complaining, DrDogg? Seriously, man. Let's focus on what he can do. Comparing SCIV Yoshi to SCV Yoshi doesn't help anyone.
DrDogg
[09] Warrior
Yes, I'm still complaining. Last time I checked that was something that happens a lot on internet forums. We're discussing SCV Yoshi in the SCV Yoshi forum.
Instead of commenting that I'm complaining, you could post up what tools you think SCV Yoshi has, since that was the point of my post. I'm just trying to figure out what makes him good and what will work at high levels.
>_>
funkpanda
[09] Warrior
Well one of the tools he has is that his 4A just frame series is a SHIT ton easier - ive been in the lab for the past week trying to get it down - i can say I can do it about 50% percent of the time now.
When you land it in a combo, like after 3B - its a 85-100 damage combo for no meter. Still trying to get down 1A and fc 1k, but the 4A series is pretty easy with enough practice.
Also - even if you dont have it 100% - theres really no risk to doing it in combos. 3B,4AAAAA does 60 damage which is 4 less than 3B,6K - PLUS it wall carries! And if you have your execution on point and land that shit - thats a relaunch for a followup for more damage.
I even think you could link multiple JF 4A series.. but i've yet to do it. I just remember seeing it from SC4..
When you land it in a combo, like after 3B - its a 85-100 damage combo for no meter. Still trying to get down 1A and fc 1k, but the 4A series is pretty easy with enough practice.
Also - even if you dont have it 100% - theres really no risk to doing it in combos. 3B,4AAAAA does 60 damage which is 4 less than 3B,6K - PLUS it wall carries! And if you have your execution on point and land that shit - thats a relaunch for a followup for more damage.
I even think you could link multiple JF 4A series.. but i've yet to do it. I just remember seeing it from SC4..
Oboro
Namunamunamuna...
He's still got enough speed, tricks and safety to handle himself I find. His biggest weakness compared to the rest of the cast IMO is his BEs are just bad. Lets you stock it up for a CE with no thought on management but really he might as well not even have the BEs.
- Thread starter
- #93
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
First, a rebuttal then....
If set-up properly, then forcing an opponent to block it is no problem. As far as I'm concerned, I feel 22K is mainly for pressuring on walls and near the edge. Same as SCIV, except we get a stun on hit. That's just gravy. The point is that it sets up a frame trap. It doesn't matter how knowledgeable the opponent is, it puts the opponent on the defensive.
This is a comparison to SCIV. Regardless of which combos he has or doesn't have, it's what he's stuck with. In terms of what he gets...
CH iMCF, CE
CH iMCF, 66B, DNK (RO here)
CH iMCF, 66B, 66A+B
CH iMCF, RCC 3B, a:B+K, DNK
CH iMCF, RCC 3B, a:B+K, 3B
CH iMCF, RCC 3B, a:B+K, 8A+B (pseudo tech trap. On that note, 8A+B setups are strong in SCV)
Also, this game is much more offensive focused. That means people are going to forcing their way in and/or trying to break guards. Yoshi players have their work cut out for them. We don't need to setup iMCF anymore. We just need to use it defensively and sometimes know where strings are vulnerable.
Stances we only really used against people who had no idea what we could do from them. Less is more in this case.
A shame, but we're really looking at how he is in SCV, not what he was in SCIV.
Which ones? The main ones I used were FLE{B} and occasionally 22K on the wall or near edges. I find them useful still.
I haven't really had any problems punishing whiffs. I just move the stick to 2_8 when I expect an attack to miss and then slide to 9_6_3.
This is an SCIV comparison. a:B+K is worse. We have to live with it.
Getting upset about the rest of these attacks being "unsafe" is a bit ridiculous, imo. Yoshi never was completely safe, but some of his major weaknesses have been shored up. The major one being 3B. He's now in-line with other characters on having a somewhat safe launcher as opposed to a ridiculously unsafe launcher.
- 8K is still solid. It catches steppers, it's fast, it TJs, it ROs, and it can lead to wall combos. The reward far outweighs the risk here.
- 3A and 3AB aren't really great attacks in my book. I haven't played with 3A enough to know if the B can be inputted late and CH confirmed. If it's not, I would just avoid using it all together. There are better tools to fall back on.
- Another comparison. 66K still ROs, TJs, and can still lead to wall combos. Even if it's -10, it's still useful.
Two additional points.
- 1AAAA on CH is guaranteed and garners at least 65 damage. Yoshi really felt like he was lacking a close-range step killer, but it's been 1AAAA all along. Sure, risk v. reward, since it's not perfectly safe, but it's still good.
- FC 1KKKK hits rolling opponents MUCH more consistently. This gives us another option in pressuring a grounded opponent, since having a 3B blocked against certain opponents is highly dangerous. While FC 1K is unsafe, it's easy to confirm when the opponent begins rolling and use it then. 3B on the other hand requires a slightly greater commitment.
If set-up properly, then forcing an opponent to block it is no problem. As far as I'm concerned, I feel 22K is mainly for pressuring on walls and near the edge. Same as SCIV, except we get a stun on hit. That's just gravy. The point is that it sets up a frame trap. It doesn't matter how knowledgeable the opponent is, it puts the opponent on the defensive.
This is a comparison to SCIV. Regardless of which combos he has or doesn't have, it's what he's stuck with. In terms of what he gets...
CH iMCF, CE
CH iMCF, 66B, DNK (RO here)
CH iMCF, 66B, 66A+B
CH iMCF, RCC 3B, a:B+K, DNK
CH iMCF, RCC 3B, a:B+K, 3B
CH iMCF, RCC 3B, a:B+K, 8A+B (pseudo tech trap. On that note, 8A+B setups are strong in SCV)
Also, this game is much more offensive focused. That means people are going to forcing their way in and/or trying to break guards. Yoshi players have their work cut out for them. We don't need to setup iMCF anymore. We just need to use it defensively and sometimes know where strings are vulnerable.
Stances we only really used against people who had no idea what we could do from them. Less is more in this case.
A shame, but we're really looking at how he is in SCV, not what he was in SCIV.
Which ones? The main ones I used were FLE{B} and occasionally 22K on the wall or near edges. I find them useful still.
I haven't really had any problems punishing whiffs. I just move the stick to 2_8 when I expect an attack to miss and then slide to 9_6_3.
This is an SCIV comparison. a:B+K is worse. We have to live with it.
Getting upset about the rest of these attacks being "unsafe" is a bit ridiculous, imo. Yoshi never was completely safe, but some of his major weaknesses have been shored up. The major one being 3B. He's now in-line with other characters on having a somewhat safe launcher as opposed to a ridiculously unsafe launcher.
- 8K is still solid. It catches steppers, it's fast, it TJs, it ROs, and it can lead to wall combos. The reward far outweighs the risk here.
- 3A and 3AB aren't really great attacks in my book. I haven't played with 3A enough to know if the B can be inputted late and CH confirmed. If it's not, I would just avoid using it all together. There are better tools to fall back on.
- Another comparison. 66K still ROs, TJs, and can still lead to wall combos. Even if it's -10, it's still useful.
Two additional points.
- 1AAAA on CH is guaranteed and garners at least 65 damage. Yoshi really felt like he was lacking a close-range step killer, but it's been 1AAAA all along. Sure, risk v. reward, since it's not perfectly safe, but it's still good.
- FC 1KKKK hits rolling opponents MUCH more consistently. This gives us another option in pressuring a grounded opponent, since having a 3B blocked against certain opponents is highly dangerous. While FC 1K is unsafe, it's easy to confirm when the opponent begins rolling and use it then. 3B on the other hand requires a slightly greater commitment.
- Moderator
- #94
mkl
[00] Signia's Cheerleader
Yeah, I feel like this forum has the same disease as the Sieg forum. Instead of finding new technology we're just bitching and praying for buffs.
funkpanda
[09] Warrior
Dont know if this has been mentioned... but Yoshi's 2K is -2 on hit. FC iMCF comes out in 9 frames. That means you need to do an 11 frame or faster mid or crouching move to stop this frame trap - which NO one has!
In SC4 you had to RCC after 2K to get this to work, and even then it was beaten out by a lot of 2A's still. Yoshi in SC5 is pretty damn good. So what if his Brave edges suck? Just save that meter for GI's and CE.....
In SC4 you had to RCC after 2K to get this to work, and even then it was beaten out by a lot of 2A's still. Yoshi in SC5 is pretty damn good. So what if his Brave edges suck? Just save that meter for GI's and CE.....
neorussell
[10] Knight
There are certain things that makes this Yoshimitsu good but because most of the players that are coming back are from SCIV, it's just a really hard transition. We can all agree that he lost a lot of USEFUL moves/priorities. With these new changes, I still think we can take it in and still have an enjoyable experience.
To me, personally, I hated SCV Yoshimitsu in the beginning, but now I seem to be getting used to him.
He still has his quirks and with the new system, it's safe to say that he is a fair character.
I could go on about versus SCIV and SCV but that won't help anyones gameplay.
People just have to realize that he is not a heavily based mix-up character that he was before.
What we used before has clearly changed.
Time to learn new tricks with this version and move forward.
In any case, I was repping Yoshimitsu in Winter Brawl last weekend and placed 3rd in my pool which makes me 9th place in the tournament. Lost to Ramon and Whoazz. It was a great loss on my end. I hope the stream archive is out since I failed horribly against Whoazz, he even just guarded moves after just a few matches. Really interesting how SCV system works. Lots of things to consider.
Let's continue having fun with Yoshimitsu. I'm not one to give up that easily. Are you?
NeoRussell
To me, personally, I hated SCV Yoshimitsu in the beginning, but now I seem to be getting used to him.
He still has his quirks and with the new system, it's safe to say that he is a fair character.
I could go on about versus SCIV and SCV but that won't help anyones gameplay.
People just have to realize that he is not a heavily based mix-up character that he was before.
What we used before has clearly changed.
Time to learn new tricks with this version and move forward.
In any case, I was repping Yoshimitsu in Winter Brawl last weekend and placed 3rd in my pool which makes me 9th place in the tournament. Lost to Ramon and Whoazz. It was a great loss on my end. I hope the stream archive is out since I failed horribly against Whoazz, he even just guarded moves after just a few matches. Really interesting how SCV system works. Lots of things to consider.
Let's continue having fun with Yoshimitsu. I'm not one to give up that easily. Are you?
NeoRussell
BoomSouljah
[08] Mercenary
^ GG's man, the Yoshi mirror was fun. I was the Yoshi you played before you played Woahzz, I just got outplayed lol, but nonetheless was fun. Im trying to get used to not being so mixup heavy, stupid habit to break.
JT_the_Ninja
[09] Warrior
NeoRussell, you are still an inspiration, just sayin'...I've been a Yoshi player since Tekken 3. Yoshimitsu was the reason I got Soul Calibur II. I will pretty much always be a Yoshi player, through the good and the bad. []
neorussell
[10] Knight
Great games Boom. I think our matches are up. From the looks of it, you are still playing SCIV Yoshimitsu. That's just my take on it. You need to incorporate his new moves to your arsenal.
I have 4 matches that was on stream.
Find it here:
http://8wayrun.com/media/playlist/gvn-winter-brawl-6.28/
NeoRussell
DrDogg
[09] Warrior
iMCF is i10 now, but the trap still works. He has new iMCF frame traps for sure. Hopefully I'll be able to display some of them next week.
I didn't see you or Boom use iMCF once on stream. I cried a little...